Graviational Wave discovery

flhrci

flhrci

Final Approach
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David
So, most likely you have heard that gravitational waves have been discovered and verify Einstein's theory of Relativity.

So, its kinda cool and all sure.

But here is what I want to know. Is there any real world importance/use to this or was it just important to physics to verify Einstein's theory that gravity waves exist? Just wondering.

Discuss.....

David
 
The article I read said all the brainiacs are saying this is a game changer. A major game changer.

How, I don't know.

It has something to do with being able to see parts of space and time we previously could not see.
 
Right now we're really good at manipulating electrochemistry. That's computers and car engines and stuff. What we can't do is manipulate the strong and weak nuclear forces. the best we can do it throw rocks together, which is more or less what is done inside a nuclear warhead.

The more we know ago the universe, the closer we get to things like sustained fusion.

All that lofty verbiage said, ain't my bad and I really don't know how game changing it is. I'll definitely take their word for it.
 
My non-physicist/non-astronomer understanding from what I've read: Imagine a rock tossed in a pond. You see the ripples it generates on the surface of the water, even though you can't see the rock anymore. Now imagine the same thing with a star in space, it generates gravitational waves. Until now it's been a theory, but they were just detected. Now that we know they exist, it can be used to detect the presence of things we could only guess at, like black holes. There are wave formulas that can measure amplitude and frequency. With those, we might be able to calculate distance, direction, and mass of the source. Maybe, someday, since everything with mass affects gravity, it can be used to detect the presence of things we normally couldn't see, like buried treasure.
 
Matthew said:
My non-physicist/non-astronomer understanding from what I've read: Imagine a rock tossed in a pond. You see the ripples it generates on the surface of the water, even though you can't see the rock anymore. Now imagine the same thing with a star in space, it generates gravitational waves. Until now it's been a theory, but they were just detected. Now that we know they exist, it can be used to detect the presence of things we could only guess at, like black holes. There are wave formulas that can measure amplitude and frequency. With those, we might be able to calculate distance, direction, and mass of the source. Maybe, someday, since everything with mass affects gravity, it can be used to detect the presence of things we normally couldn't see, like buried treasure.
Click to expand...


Alright, I want this applied to Oak Island in Canada so we can finally see what it is in the Money Pit. :)

David
 
txflyer said:
The article I read said all the brainiacs are saying this is a game changer. A major game changer.

How, I don't know.

It has something to do with being able to see parts of space and time we previously could not see.
Click to expand...

Eventually, and this is a long way off, gravitational waves penetrate a lot more than electromagnetic radiation, and will provide some very important tests of early universe models.

The microwave background analysis has been extraordinarily successful in constraining the large scale parameters, but it can't see earlier than the formation of neutral atoms, because ionized matter is opaque to EM. With a gravity wave telescope, you can see structure much earlier, which will eventually constrain previously untestable early-time models. Being able to test stuff that was previously impossible is a big deal.

It doesn't "prove GR." There are several bits of compelling evidence that do that, starting with the Eddington observation of gravitational aberration in 1919. Indirect evidence of gravitational radiation was first found with millisecond pulsars in the late 80s (and that work won a Nobel prize). This is the first direct observation. If it gets confirmed.
 
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100% of my bad landings were due to a rogue gravitational wave. True story.
 
flhrci said:
Is there any real world importance/use to this or was it just important to physics to verify Einstein's theory that gravity waves exist?
Click to expand...

At this point, it's fundamental science, verifying a prediction of General Relativity. It's usefulness is that it is starting out as a way of making new observatories, to see things we can't currently see with telescopes.

Waves in general are useful. Electromagnetic waves (radio, radar, infrared, etc.) are easy to detect and easy to generate, so there are many uses for them. Same thing for acoustic waves (sound, sonar, etc.).

So you might ask whether there could be similar uses for gravitational waves. The trouble is, gravitational waves are just incredibly weak. If they were strong and easily detected, sure, you could use them for remote detection of moving objects, like radar and sonar. But it turns out gravitational waves are so weak that you have to make fabulously good detectors just to detect the biggest possible disturbance, two black holes orbiting one another.

So for now, that's the usefulness -- detecting two black holes orbiting one another and then crashing together. A kind of specialized observatory to see something that can't be seen with a regular telescope.
 
A client of mine has three brilliant sons, all three of whom have been involved in this project. They are beyond giddy about the prospects it holds for opening up new understandings of how things work.
 
Very cool. Now we'll be able to detect that Vogon ship coming right before they destroy Earth to make the interplanetary bypass.
 
Cool for astronomers and physicist. But, it won't be making interstellar travel possible any time soon. So, keep your Prius charged up and remember to recycle, reduce and reuse!
 
GlennAB1 said:
It means, nerds will get government funding and be able to survive, dabbling in stuff that really doesn't matter.
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He says, typing on a device invented by nerds using government funding, on a network, created by nerds using government funding, using A/C electricity, created by the mother of all nerds using government funding.

No other investment in the history of mankind has paid off as well as the investments made in particle physics. And none of it was immediately obvious what to do with it at the moment it got discovered.
:nono:
 
wilkersk said:
Cool for astronomers and physicist. But, it won't be making interstellar travel possible any time soon. So, keep your Prius charged up and remember to recycle, reduce and reuse!
Click to expand...

So I should scrap my plane to keep anyone else from wasting resources with it and buy a Prius to travel and a Leaf to go to work in? Everybody needs two cars! Sales will go up, more mining, more smelting, more to the landfill. Great idea, thanks!
 
GlennAB1 said:
It means, nerds will get government funding and be able to survive, dabbling in stuff that really doesn't matter.
Click to expand...

Yeah, who could possibly find a use for a device that measures distances really precisely?

Exceptionally short sighted. You do realize this Web you're posting on was invented by particle physicists with European government funding, right? Followed shortly after by a US government computer science lab, that invented the web browser.

Government very often gets things started, despite the unfounded myths out there.
 
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I wonder what happens when someone invents a wave guide that can focus or redirect gravitational waves?
 
Sounds like the universe has a beating heart. Are the pulses in sync?

dtuuri
 
MAKG1 said:
Eventually, and this is a long way off, gravitational waves penetrate a lot more than electromagnetic radiation, and will provide some very important tests of early universe models.

The microwave background analysis has been extraordinarily successful in constraining the large scale parameters, but it can't see earlier than the formation of neutral atoms, because ionized matter is opaque to EM. With a gravity wave telescope, you can see structure much earlier, which will eventually constrain previously untestable early-time models. Being able to test stuff that was previously impossible is a big deal.

It doesn't "prove GR." There are several bits of compelling evidence that do that, starting with the Eddington observation of gravitational aberration in 1919. Indirect evidence of gravitational radiation was first found with millisecond pulsars in the late 80s (and that work won a Nobel prize). This is the first direct observation. If it gets confirmed.
Click to expand...

NoHeat said:
At this point, it's fundamental science, verifying a prediction of General Relativity. It's usefulness is that it is starting out as a way of making new observatories, to see things we can't currently see with telescopes.

Waves in general are useful. Electromagnetic waves (radio, radar, infrared, etc.) are easy to detect and easy to generate, so there are many uses for them. Same thing for acoustic waves (sound, sonar, etc.).

So you might ask whether there could be similar uses for gravitational waves. The trouble is, gravitational waves are just incredibly weak. If they were strong and easily detected, sure, you could use them for remote detection of moving objects, like radar and sonar. But it turns out gravitational waves are so weak that you have to make fabulously good detectors just to detect the biggest possible disturbance, two black holes orbiting one another.

So for now, that's the usefulness -- detecting two black holes orbiting one another and then crashing together. A kind of specialized observatory to see something that can't be seen with a regular telescope.
Click to expand...

So if I understand you guys correctly, this discovery is a game changer for a game that almost no one plays, or understands and few ever watch. It seems for the average citizen on earth, it's "Nothing to see here, move along." Am I missing something?
 
Dav8or said:
So if I understand you guys correctly, this discovery is a game changer for a game that almost no one plays, or understands and few ever watch. It seems for the average citizen on earth, it's "Nothing to see here, move along." Am I missing something?
Click to expand...
It all depends on whether you are interested in basic science. It's a notable milestone for basic science and is expected to lead to lots more exciting discoveries about the evolution of the very early universe. The field of direct gravity wave detection is in its infancy - LIGO has been around for 40 years but this is the first time they've detected anything. I'd gotten to the point where mentioning LIGO in my astronomy lectures was obligatory but a bit depressing - now everything has changed.

Now, whether there will ever been any trickle-down to consumer electronics from this is too early to say. My guess would be no, but I could be wrong. Very likely you have a long wait, even if so. So if you're not interested in basic science, then maybe this really is a "nothing to see here, move along" event. But it's been reported so widely that my guess is that a lot of people, not just physicists and astronomers, find it fascinating and exciting.

One point that the media keep getting wrong and that deserves correction is that this detection didn't "confirm Einstein's general relativity". GR has had lots of strong observational support over the last 100 years and the software in our GPSs even includes corrections from GR to achieve the needed accuracy. Specifically, we have known about gravitational waves - albeit indirectly - ever since Taylor and Hulse analyzed the emissions from a pulsar orbiting in a binary system and showed that its orbit was decaying exactly as predicted by GR. The orbital decay, according to GR, is due to the orbit losing energy as gravitational waves are emitted. Taylor and Hulse won the Nobel prize for this work.

This is however the first DIRECT detection of gravitational waves.
 
GlennAB1 said:
It means, nerds will get government funding and be able to survive, dabbling in stuff that really doesn't matter.
Click to expand...

When ever there's a breakthrough, a true breakthrough, you can go back and find a time period when the consensus was 'well, that's nonsense!'
So what that means is that a true creative researcher has to have confidence in nonsense.
~Burt Rutan~
 
MAKG1 said:
Yeah, who could possibly find a use for a device that measures distances really precisely?

Exceptionally short sighted. You do realize this Web you're posting on was invented by particle physicists with European government funding, right? Followed shortly after by a US government computer science lab, that invented the web browser.

Government very often gets things started, despite the unfounded myths out there.
Click to expand...

I thought some old US politician took credit for the WWW?

Alright, there were numerous spinoffs from the space program, I concede, all government funded research isn't waste.
 
GlennAB1 said:
I thought some old US politician took credit for the WWW?
Click to expand...

He was taking credit for leading Congressional efforts to fund it, but his wording allowed other interpretations.
 
Palmpilot said:
He was taking credit for leading Congressional efforts to fund it, but his wording allowed other interpretations.
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"allowed"?

his wording "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet. "


Your interpretation is particularly selective ...
 
Bob Noel said:
"allowed"?

his wording "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet. "


Your interpretation is particularly selective ...
Click to expand...

If you say so. :rofl:
 
GlennAB1 said:
I thought some old US politician took credit for the WWW?

Alright, there were numerous spinoffs from the space program, I concede, all government funded research isn't waste.
Click to expand...

The Internet was around for about 20 years before the Web. It was indeed US funded, by DoD, then NSF. As was the first network and the first networked application another 10 years earlier.
 
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My scientific prediction is that Gravitational Wave will be the next new flavor at Ben & Jerry's!
 
So someone needs to invent anti-gravity, already. Only way to do interplanetary and inter-galactic travel, unless you also can make a time machine.

We need to be able to go anywhere, any time, instantly, sort of like entangled particles.
 
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