grass strips and insurance

flyer

flyer

Pre-takeoff checklist
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flyer
just got this email from my aircraft insurance company

"We used to have an Off Airport Exclusion that we put on tailwheel aircraft but we no longer do that. Pretty much there is nothing we can do if they land on a grass strip occasionally. We would prefer that they not but there is no exclusion. If they were to land on a grass strip and use bad judgment doing so and have a loss – there might be a problem with offering renewal. Basically it is held to the good judgment of the insured based on the type of aircraft. We would not want them landing on a grass field or highway etc but again – there is nothing in our policy excluding this.”


Sounds like they will cover, but if there is a loss, no renewal.
 
How is a grass strip = off airport?

The quote makes mention that they had an off airport exclusion which I take to mean if you land on purpose at a non-airport then they may exclude you from coverage. But many airports have grass strips and landing at one would not, or rather should not, be excluded under such a clause. Indeed later in the quote they make mention to "grass fields" and "highways" which I would take to mean non-airport landing locations.
 
Looks like they are trying to claim landing on a grass strip is an off airport landing. As if grass strips cannot be airports. There are a lot of places that would dispute that. Can you say "Gaston's"? A lot of airports that only have grass runways.
 
The way I read that (although it is only a snippet) is that they are addressing landing in a cow pasture as opposed to a grass runway.
 
CJones said:
The way I read that (although it is only a snippet) is that they are addressing landing in a cow pasture as opposed to a grass runway.
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They are very lazy with their use of language in describing what they mean. For instance the use of the term "grass strip". Is that just a strip of grass or could it also mean a 'grass landing strip' at an airport?

The term 'grass strip' is often used as a shorthand for a grass landing strip at an airport. The grass strip is a legal runway, surveyed and approved by local aviation authorities and the FAA. The wrote could be applied to that runway and that should not be an exclusion. This is one of those times when language needs to be exact in what the author is trying to communicate.
 
smigaldi said:
They are very lazy with their use of language in describing what they mean. For instance the use of the term "grass strip". Is that just a strip of grass or could it also mean a 'grass landing strip' at an airport?

The term 'grass strip' is often used as a shorthand for a grass landing strip at an airport. The grass strip is a legal runway, surveyed and approved by local aviation authorities and the FAA. The wrote could be applied to that runway and that should not be an exclusion. This is one of those times when language needs to be exact in what the author is trying to communicate.
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I see what you mean. I am blending the 'grass strip' in with the "Off Airport Exclusion" and "grass field" terminology elsewhere in the wording. But yes, clearer definitions need to be used.
 
A number of policies are specific re. "improved, hard surface" runways. I make sure the underwriter knows I only land on pavement if there's no other viable choice.
 
Gosh, maybe I should check my insurance policy to see If I am covered If I would ever land on anything but asphalt. :smilewinkgrin:
 
wabower said:
A number of policies are specific re. "improved, hard surface" runways. I make sure the underwriter knows I only land on pavement if there's no other viable choice.
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Seems to me a smart underwriter would recognize that grass runways are often safer for taildraggers than pavement.
 
gismo said:
Seems to me a smart underwriter would recognize that grass runways are often safer for taildraggers than pavement.
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And gravel somewhat safer than both depending on conditions.

I'd be hard-pressed to remember the last time I actually landed on pavement. I taxied on pavement the other day, at FAI, but I landed on the gravel strip. As you say, safer for me all things considered.
 
alaskaflyer said:
And gravel somewhat safer than both depending on conditions.

I'd be hard-pressed to remember the last time I actually landed on pavement. I taxied on pavement the other day, at FAI, but I landed on the gravel strip. As you say, safer for me all things considered.
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How large is that gravel? When I think "gravel," I envision small (dime- or nickel-sized) pieces, but I've seen some pictures of runways in AK that seem to be more softball sized or larger.
 
gprellwitz said:
How large is that gravel? When I think "gravel," I envision small (dime- or nickel-sized) pieces, but I've seen some pictures of runways in AK that seem to be more softball sized or larger.
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Well, when I talk of a "runway" I think of normal size gravel, OTOH there are certainly strips such as Paxson where I flew a couple of weekends ago that have golfball to baseball sized rocks - still no problem to land there for me. I don't mess with the larger stuff.
 
alaskaflyer said:
Well, when I talk of a "runway" I think of normal size gravel, OTOH there are certainly strips such as Paxson where I flew a couple of weekends ago that have golfball to baseball sized rocks - still no problem to land there for me. I don't mess with the larger stuff.
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Thanks. I was thinking about it with the possibility of going up in the 210, which doesn't have particularly large tires! Normal gravel it should be able to handle.
 
gprellwitz said:
Thanks. I was thinking about it with the possibility of going up in the 210, which doesn't have particularly large tires! Normal gravel it should be able to handle.
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You probably already know this Grant, but whenever there's a chance of loose gravel it's good for the life of your prop to increase power slowly at the beginning of your takeoff roll such that you have achieved 20-30 mph before making enough power to suck rocks into the prop. And aside from the level of potential damage, smaller rocks pose a larger threat.
 
I think the insurance companies need some education.
There are many times I choose a turf runway over the paved because of side load in severe wind. Turf is very forgiving in many cases.
In some cases their losses would be less if the turf was used over the pavement.
It still gets down to the pilots choice of having all the available info and skills and applying them wisely with emphasis on safety of the aircraft and above all the occupants.:rolleyes:
 
I forgot, our Airfield 6Y9, is a State and FAA approved airfield ,licensed by the State, and following all the FAA rules and guidelines.
Would the insurance guy's like to be hit in the head with a chunk of concrete/asphalt or a clump of grass? Sheesh
Unimproved ,non licensed maybe I can see their point, but State and Fed approved --come on:nonod:
 
I'm pretty sure the underwriter's reasoning is along the lines of:

Grass = short
Grass = rough
Grass = tall trees and/or wires at the ends

And there is some correlation between these issues and grass runways but probably only a small percentage of them have such issues.
 
As others have alluded to, the insurance company employee who composed this e-mail must have flunked high school English. It was quite difficult to read.
 
CJones said:
The way I read that (although it is only a snippet) is that they are addressing landing in a cow pasture as opposed to a grass runway.
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Looks that way to me, too -- too many folks damaging their airplanes while landing in non-airport grass fields that strike their fancy in passing.
 
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