Grass field landings

ScottK

ScottK

Pre-takeoff checklist
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ScottK
I had my first grass landings in quite awhile yesterday. I hadn't flown in quite awhile, so I ask my CFI friend to come along to keep me out of trouble. After having 6 pretty good landings at two different airports, we were on our way back and flew over a local grass strip. He suggested doing a couple landings on the grass. Since my first 6 landings were pretty good, I agreed. We circled around and set up for the landing. This is where the fun started.

For you grass strip veterans, this field (P45) probably wouldn't be a big deal, but it does have some personality to it. First, the runway (24) is 2158 x 135 which itself isn't that bad, but it also drops about 60' toward the 6 end of the runway. In addition, the runway slopes pretty significantly to the right as you're rolling down the hill.

I knew I needed to be slow and steady to make this work and with absolutely no wind to help, I went full flaps. The first approach was ok, but just a little quick. I touched down and realized quickly that I was too fast and heading to the right. I stomped on the rudder, but it wasn't correcting as fast as I needed it to. Power in and go around! In four years of flying together, this was the first time I heard my buddy's voice change. He was more than a little nervous about the big yellow cone coming at us and much relieved when we climbed back out.

The second approach was better and I compensated for the right slope. It was a bumpy ride to the bottom of the hill (and this is in great shape to the locals?), but I finally got it stopped at the intersection of the other runway. We taxied back up the hill to 24 and set up for the takeoff. There is something very strange about rolling downhill on a takeoff with trees at the end of the runway. It's never been a problem getting up in plenty of time, but it is a strange picture for someone that doesn't do it all the time. I guess I need to find more grass strips and practice, practice, practice.
 
You land up hill?
 
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Rolling downhill on takeoff is a whole lot better than struggling uphill.
 
Land up hill, take off down hill, unless you have winds that say no.
 
ScottK said:
I had my first grass landings in quite awhile yesterday. I hadn't flown in quite awhile, so I ask my CFI friend to come along to keep me out of trouble. After having 6 pretty good landings at two different airports, we were on our way back and flew over a local grass strip. He suggested doing a couple landings on the grass. Since my first 6 landings were pretty good, I agreed. We circled around and set up for the landing. This is where the fun started.

For you grass strip veterans, this field (P45) probably wouldn't be a big deal, but it does have some personality to it. First, the runway (24) is 2158 x 135 which itself isn't that bad, but it also drops about 60' toward the 6 end of the runway. In addition, the runway slopes pretty significantly to the right as you're rolling down the hill.

I knew I needed to be slow and steady to make this work and with absolutely no wind to help, I went full flaps. The first approach was ok, but just a little quick. I touched down and realized quickly that I was too fast and heading to the right. I stomped on the rudder, but it wasn't correcting as fast as I needed it to. Power in and go around! In four years of flying together, this was the first time I heard my buddy's voice change. He was more than a little nervous about the big yellow cone coming at us and much relieved when we climbed back out.

The second approach was better and I compensated for the right slope. It was a bumpy ride to the bottom of the hill (and this is in great shape to the locals?), but I finally got it stopped at the intersection of the other runway. We taxied back up the hill to 24 and set up for the takeoff. There is something very strange about rolling downhill on a takeoff with trees at the end of the runway. It's never been a problem getting up in plenty of time, but it is a strange picture for someone that doesn't do it all the time. I guess I need to find more grass strips and practice, practice, practice.
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It doesn't seem to me that your troubles were with the grass.
 
Biggest problem is the uneveness causing the prop to hit the ground. Be careful transitioning from the grass to the pavement taxiway if there is one. Also, wheel pants don't like grass, too much vibration.
 
coloradobluesky said:
Biggest problem is the uneveness causing the prop to hit the ground. Be careful transitioning from the grass to the pavement taxiway if there is one. Also, wheel pants don't like grass, too much vibration.
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That's got to me some massive uneveness. Usually the concern for tricycle gear is putting too much abuse on the nose gear.
 
Glad you went around... sounds like you were headed for the most common accident report in the database... "Pilot failed to maintain directional control..."

Need to keep it straight on grass/anything slippery. Asphalt and concrete along with the friction of rubber tires make the feet become lazy. Especially side to side... you'll slide sideways on wet grass and won't be ready for it with asphalt-feet. :)

Also like many mountain airports, sounds like you had a sloped runway. You said "no wind", so you'd really want to land uphill and take off downhill unless there's a really compelling reason not to.
 
coloradobluesky said:
Biggest problem is the uneveness causing the prop to hit the ground. Be careful transitioning from the grass to the pavement taxiway if there is one. Also, wheel pants don't like grass, too much vibration.
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flyingron said:
That's got to me some massive uneveness. Usually the concern for tricycle gear is putting too much abuse on the nose gear.
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Nose wheels have no problem with grass, and if your wheel pants are the plastic ones maybe, but real metal wheel pants have no problem. The problem with grass isn't the aircraft but the pilot.
 
Never had a problem with fiberglass wheel pants either. Seems more like pilot issues than airplane issues.
 
coloradobluesky said:
Also, wheel pants don't like grass, too much vibration.
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That depends a lot on the condition of the field and the wheel pant type/installation.

I have never had an issue with wheel pants on grass with my Waco with the original 1930s pants installed. At the same time, I've seen RVs taxiing on the same grass and the wheel pants were shaking so bad it looked like they were going to break off.
 
James331 said:
Yup

I'd prefer to operate off of grass compared to hard surfaces anyday
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I'm not too keen on grass with my retract. I will do it, but not unless there is a reliable runway report from someone who is actually there a few hours before. Even Basin Harbor was bumpier than I was led to expect, but at least there weren't any unexpected gopher holes or anthills.

I'll never forget landing at Woolsey Memorial in northern MI only to be told a Cherokee had recently had a prop strike there due to some uneven surface - not sure but I think it was a gopher hole - just off the side of the runway. Was VERY careful departing, made directly for the runway and back-taxied rather than taxi through the grass.

Gravel, there would have to be a good reason for me to land on. I've no hankering for more paint chips and nicks in my prop.
 
Yes, I should've landed uphill. The winds were calm and it would've made things a lot easier. There are a few other grass strips in the area and I hope to get to them this summer.
 
Meh, folks prop strike their SR22s everyyear at the PSP fly in, tuff runway at 10,000' of smooth pavement.

9/10 times its PIC not the grass that causes a strike.
 
I've never had a grass runway I've had problems with on the Navion, though its gear is a bit stouter than most retracts. Big squishy tires and 11" of oleo strut travel.
 
Avoid when wet because the plane makes ruts in the soft grass/mud. Keep an eye out for gopher holes. If you land on gravel it can kick it up and ding the bottom of the horizontal stabilizer. A good dry, smooth grass strip shouldn't present any problems whatsoever. In dryer climates they tend to be dirt and gravel and weeds unless irrigated. Watch out for irrigation pipes!
 
I'm doing a little experimenting with my GoPro on a grass field today. I have a neutral density filter but am a little hesitant to use it for outside shots. Lots of bugs and cleaning those grungy little exoskeletons off a precision piece of optics doesn't sound like a good idea. Anyone have any feedback on use of the filter for outside shooting?
 
write-stuff said:
I'm doing a little experimenting with my GoPro on a grass field today. I have a neutral density filter but am a little hesitant to use it for outside shots. Lots of bugs and cleaning those grungy little exoskeletons off a precision piece of optics doesn't sound like a good idea. Anyone have any feedback on use of the filter for outside shooting?
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For aviation, a neutral density filter will blur the prop - get rid of the "boomerang" or "banana" effect. If you are not getting that effect or don't care about it or the prop is simply not in the picture, there is very little reason to use one.
 
I really enjoy landing on grass strips. When I had my 180, I'd go up to a 2500 ft grass strip just north of KSRQ (48X) and get the cheap fuel. Also got to watch Waco's and LSA takeoff and land. Lots of tail draggers and LSA based at that field.

I had wheel pants on the plane, but it's no big deal if the runway is well taken care of, which that one was. I'd love to get in an tail dragger with a STOL kit and hit up some of these smaller grass fields. There's a few south of where I live.

Just gotta bring it in nice and soft, good power and as @timwinters did, use all of the runway. Can't brake hard else you risk a skid, just slow it down aerodynamically get the flaps up for more authority on the mains.

The broker who helped me sell the plane was thrilled to go into the grass strip and we used that for the video. Apparently insurance companies don't like you landing at grass strips with some planes.
 
Caramon13 said:
I really enjoy landing on grass strips. When I had my 180, I'd go up to a 2500 ft grass strip just north of KSRQ (48X) and get the cheap fuel. Also got to watch Waco's and LSA takeoff and land. Lots of tail draggers and LSA based at that field.

I had wheel pants on the plane, but it's no big deal if the runway is well taken care of, which that one was. I'd love to get in an tail dragger with a STOL kit and hit up some of these smaller grass fields. There's a few south of where I live.

Just gotta bring it in nice and soft, good power and as @timwinters did, use all of the runway. Can't brake hard else you risk a skid, just slow it down aerodynamically get the flaps up for more authority on the mains.

The broker who helped me sell the plane was thrilled to go into the grass strip and we used that for the video. Apparently insurance companies don't like you landing at grass strips with some planes.
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2500' feet of grass in a 180, that's like a 5000' runway for a 172
 
Grass strips are the only way to fly, they're generally everywhere too, you just need to find them.

 
James331 said:
2500' feet of grass in a 180, that's like a 5000' runway for a 172
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Cherokee 180, not Cessna 180 :). And yeah, when I went up there in a 172, it was definitely no problem to get it down quicker, and it was a smidge more comfortable too with those struts.
 
Caramon13 said:
Cherokee 180, not Cessna 180 :). And yeah, when I went up there in a 172, it was definitely no problem to get it down quicker, and it was a smidge more comfortable too with those struts.
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Roger that's

2500 of grass is still plenty.
 
Is landing at a grass runway no longer in the PTS, or is it enough to demonstrate the technique on pavement? I seem to run into a fair number of polits who never go on grass because it is "dangerous". CFI should have taken them out and shown them it isn't a huge deal
 
Soft field landing technique is still part of the PTS.
 
vontresc said:
Is landing at a grass runway no longer in the PTS, or is it enough to demonstrate the technique on pavement? I seem to run into a fair number of polits who never go on grass because it is "dangerous". CFI should have taken them out and shown them it isn't a huge deal
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Soft field landings are part of the PTS but routinely simulated on hard surfaces for any number of reasons.

Around here the biggest reason is that it's a high desert. This month and maybe next are about all the best looking grass you'll ever see, and it's still patchy high plains prairie grass. It won't be green for long.

To maintain what low landers have for grass runways would require massive irrigation and waste of water, which is a very precious commodity around here, worthy of its own legal and court system, since that's usually considered more civilized than shooting someone stealing water, which was how it was handled only 100 years ago.

The other reason is many underwriters will write out coverage that doesn't include "unimproved" airports.

Or just for convenience. Or whatever.

We do have one runway nearby that's mostly gravel and 1500' of AstroTurf at one middle of nowhere airport though. Heh. It's weird to land and taxi on, honestly. I wouldn't want anything to do with that entire airport if it was wet. It's bad enough that it's dusty gravel for most of its length, which is why the AstroTurf was installed, to save the props on a jump plane that used to operate out of there long ago. (Pretty sure that jump school is long dead, but I could be wrong. The place is a ghost town.)
 
I love grass runways in good condition.

Along with them usually comes an airport that is friendly and affordable. Not always, but usually. You do need to see that the grass is groomed and there are no big holes, which sometime is difficult to ascertain. Use you soft-field technique, especially if you have a nose-dragger, and enjoy.
 
First time I landed on a grass runway it was a different feeling for sure. Nothing beats demonstrating soft field techniques on an ACTUAL soft field.

The DPE who did my PPL checkride had me do all my landings for the license on a grass field :). Was super fun.
 
Not all grass strips are "soft." Ours is pretty hard. When it rains, it gets slick but never really gets soft.
 
flyingron said:
Not all grass strips are "soft." Ours is pretty hard. When it rains, it gets slick but never really gets soft.
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Here in FL, you really don't want to be using a grass strip after a summer rain storm (or really any rain)..we have some dirt, but mostly sand and loose particles that can ruin your day. Prop strikes, stuck in the mud, etc.. It might work out for a tail dragger, but dunno. In the summer I had to settle for a paved runway further south of me for cheap gas.
 
BellyUpFish said:
Which filter are you using? I've been considering picking one up.
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I got a package deal from Nflightcam.com. It includes a camera fitting for external mounting using the screws on inspection plates. Works very well although the filter does seem to reduce some of the "clarity" in the video.
 
denverpilot said:
Soft field landings are part of the PTS but routinely simulated on hard surfaces for any number of reasons.

Around here the biggest reason is that it's a high desert. This month and maybe next are about all the best looking grass you'll ever see, and it's still patchy high plains prairie grass. It won't be green for long.

To maintain what low landers have for grass runways would require massive irrigation and waste of water, which is a very precious commodity around here, worthy of its own legal and court system, since that's usually considered more civilized than shooting someone stealing water, which was how it was handled only 100 years ago.

The other reason is many underwriters will write out coverage that doesn't include "unimproved" airports.

Or just for convenience. Or whatever.

We do have one runway nearby that's mostly gravel and 1500' of AstroTurf at one middle of nowhere airport though. Heh. It's weird to land and taxi on, honestly. I wouldn't want anything to do with that entire airport if it was wet. It's bad enough that it's dusty gravel for most of its length, which is why the AstroTurf was installed, to save the props on a jump plane that used to operate out of there long ago. (Pretty sure that jump school is long dead, but I could be wrong. The place is a ghost town.)
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There are several genuine grass strips around here. One is even public. As you say, they are either rock hard dirt with a brown grass cover or they are a sloppy mess during a rain storm (but dry 10 minutes later). There is cheap gas at the one public grass strip which is a good thing. They do have a paved runway there too.
 
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