Grand Canyon tour

ahmad

ahmad

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Would you consider a Grand Canyon tour in July in a C172 (180 HP) a completely crazy idea? Temps are usually above 100 F in July around there. I would love to do this trip but I'm thinking maybe summer time is not a good idea.
 
ahmad said:
Would you consider a Grand Canyon tour in July in a C172 (180 HP) a completely crazy idea? Temps are usually above 100 F in July around there. I would love to do this trip but I'm thinking maybe summer time is not a good idea.
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I decided not to in my PA28R last time I was there for the same reason. Climb rate was too anemic in the high DA for me to be comfortable flying up there. But my lack of experience and a little nervousness in high DA was the major factor in deciding that more than the airplanes limitations.

I'm curious to see what the community thinks about the 172 plan.
 
Read the Federal restrictions for such flights.

They are not just safety of flight, they are restrictions of damage to the visual and sound experience of tourists.
 
Certainly there's noise limits on aircraft - if I'm reading it right, 72db for a 172, but I'll admit I used the description they provide in part 93 Appendix A and not the formula. A 172S at max weight has a certificated noise level 75.1 db.

Otherwise, there's a self announce frequency unless you're talking to ATC for landing / SAR purposes and there are flight patterns to follow.

Regardless, I agree a 172 is pushing it's ceiling in a high DA situation. The GA altitude for the central area has a minimum altitude of 10,500 or 11,500 depending on direction of flight. If you're light, you probably can make it work.
 
I was thinking about staying clear throughout the airspace except for flying through the corridors. The DA makes me nervous and risky so I have decided against it. Just curious if anyone has done it and what the pros think about it.

I am planning a flight to Vegas in July but arriving and departing in the evening to beat the heat if the day.
 
This was April 20, 2015, 8 am local, northbound through the Dragon Corridor. I was solo in my 172N, 180 hp.

6355BF1B-58DF-46CF-9C44-FD9DA483B599.jpeg

Minimum altitude southbound through the corridors is 10,500'; northbound 11,500'. In the cool of the early morning that should be within the capability of a 180 hp 172. In the summer it gets bumpy by 9 or 10 am - I much prefer early morning to late afternoon.

(Pay no attention to that left fuel gauge. It was swinging back and forth like a windshield wiper, as Cessna fuel gauges are wont to do, and I happened to catch it pointed at 'E'.)
 
why not go out next week and climb to whatever the DA would be and fly around a bit to see what it's like?
I'll admit, having flown only on the East coast, I can't think of a time when I ever tried to push up to high altitudes in one. Not even sure the highest I've ever flown....not very I suppose. Seems like it could be a fun thing to explore in a controlled way......
 
Pilawt said:
This was April 20, 2015, 8 am local, northbound through the Dragon Corridor. I was solo in my 172N, 180 hp.

View attachment 118397

Minimum altitude southbound through the corridors is 10,500'; northbound 11,500'. In the cool of the early morning that should be within the capability of a 180 hp 172. In the summer it gets bumpy by 9 or 10 am - I much prefer early morning to late afternoon.

(Pay no attention to that left fuel gauge. It was swinging back and forth like a windshield wiper, as Cessna fuel gauges are wont to do, and I happened to catch it pointed at 'E'.)
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That is a lot of IAS for that altitude! I feel like the only time I ever got a skyhawk that high was on a ferry gig and I was top of the white arc-ish.
 
Pilawt said:
This was April 20, 2015, 8 am local, northbound through the Dragon Corridor. I was solo in my 172N, 180 hp.

View attachment 118397

Minimum altitude southbound through the corridors is 10,500'; northbound 11,500'. In the cool of the early morning that should be within the capability of a 180 hp 172. In the summer it gets bumpy by 9 or 10 am - I much prefer early morning to late afternoon.

(Pay no attention to that left fuel gauge. It was swinging back and forth like a windshield wiper, as Cessna fuel gauges are wont to do, and I happened to catch it pointed at 'E'.)
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I haven’t flown a Cessna yet that the fuel gauges stayed put or were accurate between 3/ and 1/4, or that didn’t have a nosewheel shimmy at some point.
 
Pilawt said:
This was April 20, 2015, 8 am local, northbound through the Dragon Corridor. I was solo in my 172N, 180 hp.

View attachment 118397

Minimum altitude southbound through the corridors is 10,500'; northbound 11,500'. In the cool of the early morning that should be within the capability of a 180 hp 172. In the summer it gets bumpy by 9 or 10 am - I much prefer early morning to late afternoon.

(Pay no attention to that left fuel gauge. It was swinging back and forth like a windshield wiper, as Cessna fuel gauges are wont to do, and I happened to catch it pointed at 'E'.)
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Tour operators get to fly lower so the general public can get a better view on their cheap ride
 
April would be OK probably. July forecast is calling for 110 degrees heat and I don't have any high altitude or mountain flying experience. I am going to wait on this bucket list item for now.

I am flying to Vegas from Los Angeles next month early in the morning and only climbing to 7500-8500. That should be exciting enough for this year.
 
I’ve done it in a “normal” 172 fully loaded - not at gross because of a couple of hrs of fuel burn coming south out of central Utah. July. Fairly early a.m. Complete non-event as far as the plane is concerned. Totally awesome for us. Done it many times in the 182. It really is spectacular.
 
simie1 said:
I’ve done it in a “normal” 172 fully loaded - not at gross because of a couple of hrs of fuel burn coming south out of central Utah. July. Fairly early a.m. Complete non-event as far as the plane is concerned. Totally awesome for us. Done it many times in the 182. It really is spectacular.
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That's awesome. I was going to do it early too (depart Vegas at 7 AM) and would burn some fuel before I got to Grand Canyon, do the flight through the SFRA, then head back to Vegas. However, I have talked myself out of this for now simply because I'll have the wife and 13 yr old with me and I feel that I should probably get some more flight time out that way before I do something like this. By next year I'll probably be rated in the 182 so next year may work out better.
 
Nice picture, Pilawt! And, everybody take notice how far out the red knob is!
 
I flew the south rim of the Grand Canyon in mid-October one year in my Piper Warrior (PA-28-161). I had plans to cross a couple of corridors, but could not get to the FAA required altitudes. Still spectacular. If you do go, have a Plan B.
DSC_0131.GC.Mt.Sinyala.2048.JPG
 
Domenick said:
I flew the south rim of the Grand Canyon in mid-October one year in my Piper Warrior (PA-28-161).
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Same time of year for me & my wife in our Archer. Made it up to the altitudes, but I had to circle climb for a while to get there
 
The wife and I flew my Archer over the canyon last year in May with no problem. We departed from Sedona. I made sure tanks were only 3/4 full. The 11,500 segments were not a problem. I've taken it up to 14,000 before and probably could have gotten a little more but stopped there due to lack of oxygen on board.
 
I flew over the canyon one night at 19,000. Man, it was a perfectly clear night, no moon, smooth air and dark as the inside of a cow. No visible lights on the ground anywhere. I was very worried about losing an engine. I have never been so glad to see a single light on the ground as I was that night.
 
ahmad said:
I was thinking about staying clear throughout the airspace except for flying through the corridors. The DA makes me nervous and risky so I have decided against it. Just curious if anyone has done it and what the pros think about it.

I am planning a flight to Vegas in July but arriving and departing in the evening to beat the heat if the day.
Click to expand...

The YouTube channel Aviation101 has a video of a 172 doing the VFR corridors over the Grand Canyon. He has a whole series on flying out west also in a Cherokee 180. The guy is a CFII and commercially rated, but flies a 172. His videos are beautifully shot and his narration is loaded with information about the specific flight. You might find that useful and interesting.
 
Zeldman said:
I flew over the canyon one night at 19,000. Man, it was a perfectly clear night, no moon, smooth air and dark as the inside of a cow. No visible lights on the ground anywhere. I was very worried about losing an engine. I have never been so glad to see a single light on the ground as I was that night.
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Wow, what a flight!
We have been to the Canyon a couple times and once was able to stay over night in a RV. It was the darkest I have ever seen. Could not see my hand in front of my face it was so dark.
 
In 1969 there were no restrictions on flying the canyon. My frat bros and I were returning from San Blas, Mexico, and dropped into the canyon in my Cessna A185E. We flew so low and made so much noise that we were singularly responsible for the new regs.

Not only that but when we parked at McCarran, girls in bikinis and a golf cart came out to park us. Ah! The good old days!
 
ahmad said:
Would you consider a Grand Canyon tour in July in a C172 (180 HP) a completely crazy idea? Temps are usually above 100 F in July around there. I would love to do this trip but I'm thinking maybe summer time is not a good idea.
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I just did it a few weeks ago in my DA40, same IO360 engine as a C172. I've flown the canyon half a dozen times, and made more than 25 passes. First time was in a C172 with 3 people from KVGT. You could definitely do the west end of the canyon, which is still spectacular, and minimum altitudes are only 8500 MSL. Even the east end is not an issue if you fly really early and have very low winds. If you go much farther east than Grand Canyon West, you should really leave Vegas before dawn and fly the east end as early as possible. Last year I had the displeasure of trying it on a hot May afternoon with 40kt winds out of the south. I made one pass up Zuni northbound at 11,500, then turned to come back Dragon at 10,500 southbound. The high winds from the south were creating a mountain wave up the North Rim and the rollers tossed me around like a ragdoll. I made a couple of 360's to the north, climbing to 12,500 and attempted southbound Dragon again. But the turbulence was very bad, and the mountain wave made it incredibly difficult to hold altitude at 12,500. At full throttle (normally aspirated IO360 at probably 18-19 inches) I was still being pulled down and aborted my attempt when IAS fell below 80kts. Turned back westbound and headed for Vegas north of the North Rim. Bottom line, if you try to fly with 180hp, fly early with low winds. It's a spectacular experience that I highly recommend for any pilot. Just don't be afraid or slow to abort if your plane's performance is not up to the task.

May 2023 video with 7 cameras:

 
I haven’t flown there but with mountain waves updrafts and downdrafts, I would just expect them and ride them out. They kind of cancel each other out. When you try to keep altitude and slow down that seems to messed me up more.
 
mandm said:
I haven’t flown there but with mountain waves updrafts and downdrafts, I would just expect them and ride them out. They kind of cancel each other out. When you try to keep altitude and slow down that seems to messed me up more.
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The challenge is you are legally required to maintain altitude in the GCN Special Flight Rules Area. Dropping 500 feet due to a serious downdraft is no big deal most other places, but it buys you a quick pilot deviation notice in a SFRA, a call with your friendly neighborhood FSDO, and probably an enforcement action. Best to call it a day before you have a bad day.
 
Greetings from Las Vegas. I checked another huge bucket list item off. Flying from LA to Vegas has been a long time dream of mine. Had a airmet T but ended up super smooth till base turn. Gusty winds with high DA and Temps ended up not being too much hassle.

Hope everyone has a great 4th of July.
 

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ahmad said:
Greetings from Las Vegas. I checked another huge bucket list item off. Flying from LA to Vegas has been a long time dream of mine. Had a airmet T but ended up super smooth till base turn. Gusty winds with high DA and Temps ended up not being too much hassle.

Hope everyone has a great 4th of July.
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Cool. What’s next?
 
luvflyin said:
Cool. What’s next?
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Flying over Grand Canyon and Oshkosh are the next two big ones for me. Not sure I'm brave enough to go to Oshkosh this year but next year may be the year.
 
ahmad said:
Flying over Grand Canyon and Oshkosh are the next two big ones for me. Not sure I'm brave enough to go to Oshkosh this year but next year may be the year.
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People make it out to be more than it is. Read the notam. Fly the notam.

Do you have specific concerns?
 
I can fly the route and follow the notam. Guess my biggest concern is the amount of traffic and the short approaches and nailing the landing dots.
 
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