GPS question

RogerT

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RogerT
I broke down and bought an Android Tablet (LG Gpad) as posted in another thread .. and have been flight testing it with Garmin Pilot and a GDL39. Seems to work well. I like having my position overlaid on a sectional. I'm getting 5 to 8 ground stations ... weather ... traffic (when someone triggers it). I've been just using a Garmin 396 for some time so this is a step up.
My question relates to using the Tablet in the car instead of my worthless Tom Tom GPS. I downloaded CoPilot. Is anyone using an external GPS with an Android tablet in the car? I don't want to pay for the cell phone data connection usage on it.

RT
 
Doesn't the tablet have a GPS built in? You should be able to use that without incurring cell phone charges. Like wise, an external GPS should work as well.

The only way I can fee cell data charges being incurred is if one needs to download a map because they moved off the area that was being navigated within, but that shouldn't be an issue with CoPilot since the maps are stored off line.
 
The GPS won't use data - but the map usually will. The tablet doesn't have a map of the U.S. in memory. It downloads portions of the map as its displayed on screen. The trend is to have basic Apps on the hardware and "content" in the cloud.

If CoPilot truly downloads the entire map to the device - there should be no data usage. In fact, you can disable the data service on the tablet if it concerns you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:
For a while there were a number of in-car GPS apps that downloaded updated data before use and stored it in the device.

Most apps have switched over to downloading only what they need at the time they need it now, so most need mobile data.

There's a tiny number left that download data ahead of time. They're usually not very good. Leftovers from an era that's fading already.

People didn't want the data taking up space in their devices.

I use an App called "Waze" constantly. It uses less than 100 Kb of data a month. It not only is constantly updated with road changes, it'll warn of various things in near-real-time reported by other users.

They were bought by Google, so the data reported to either, ends up being essentially the same, but the Waze user interface is based around self-reporting.

The phone goes in a Ram mount as soon as I get in the vehicle, since it needs to be hooked to the charger and stereo anyway, and even for trips where I know where I'm going, I turn Waze on.

I've learned the lesson that if I don't, it can't route me around traffic jams. I love that it does that. It'll warn if traffic is slowing ahead, even without anyone reporting it, since it does gather location and speed from all participants all the time.

I also don't speed, but I report all daylight speed trap locations and nighttime city ones where the officer isn't 30 minutes from help or more. Consider it a public service.

Lots of people using this tech, so might as well slow them down ahead of time and save them the cash.

If I were truly an evil genius, I'd report them wherever traffic has wandered up to 20+ over, even if there's no cop present. Heh.

The app does account for that, though, and asks following participants if the reported thing is still there. ;)

Good luck finding a solution if you must avoid mobile data. There aren't many left.

I keep a road atlas in the back of the vehicles for backup. None of them have been pulled out for road duty in years. I buy the topo map version and usually it gets pulled out to see "what mountain is that over there" in the backcountry.
 
Not much more needed than Nate's great explanation.

Yeah, for effective car use you need data access. We don't need it for airplane use precisely because the developers understand most don't have reliable data access at 4,000 AGL.
 
Not much more needed than Nate's great explanation.

Yeah, for effective car use you need data access. We don't need it for airplane use precisely because the developers understand most don't have reliable data access at 4,000 AGL.

Thanks, guys. An aquaintance was telling me about Waze a couple days ago. He uses it.

Yesterday I shut off the mobile data and tried to use CoPilot coming back
from Miami .. about 150 miles. It didn't keep the car indicator centered .. I
was constantly trying to find it on the map. This is the free version of CoPilot. Maybe the paid version is better. Too bad there's not a road version of the GDL39 .. it works nice.

RT
 
I usually use a dedicated GPS system in the car. Considering that very good, if rudimentary ones can be had, with free lifetime map updates, for less than a hundred bucks if you wait for a sale, I can't come up with a good reason not to. They don't use data, they don't stop navigating when a phone call comes in, they're not bothered by long trips through areas with no cell service... It's really a no-brainer for me. Dedicated units just work better.

I've also been less-than-impressed by the navigation apps in any phone I've ever used. I've used them from time to time when I forgot to move the GPS from one car to the other or was driving someone else's vehicle or a rental vehicle, and I've always been underwhelmed. The biggest problem I've experienced is that they seemed to be imprecise with regard to the vehicle's location. For example, they wouldn't reliably determine which of two parallel roads I was on, or wouldn't detect that I'd turned off a road in time to display the next turn. Complicated interchanges, cloverleafs, and so forth invariably seemed to confuse the phone apps, but the dedicated GPS handles them flawlessly.

A lot of people (especially younger ones) think I'm crazy, of course. They swear by their phones' navigation systems. Hey, whatever floats your boat. Personally, I like to use the tool that works best for a given task. The multi-tool attached to my hip can drive screws or cut wood in a pinch, but screwdrivers and saws work better.

Rich
 
Rich,

You don't live where there's much construction, right? ;)

I have a dedicated in the stereo (Kenwood/Garmin) unit in two of our vehicles. They're wrong about exits and freak out at highway intersections that changed due to construction. In Kenwood/Garmin's deal, updates aren't free.

They also won't route around traffic even though both have the FM sub carrier receiver for traffic and will display it.

Heck, I reported a road open that Google showed closed for years. And another that had been closed (and huge poles driven through the road surface as bollards) for years.

In Waze, I can do this...

770bc8ea988f8d2064351281664f8e5a.jpg


To get Garmin's data fixed with my free labor meant finding an obscure web page on their website that would only work with a desktop browser. I finally did it out of annoyance weeks after I realized the Garmins were routing around the best road to go someplace constantly.

For my free labor reporting their data screwup, I got... Nothing. And paid $70 for each head unit to upgrade their data when they finally fixed their upstream data months later.

You and I both agree that Google and their know-everything data collection may not be the best thing ever for the world, for various reasons, but it's hard to beat them on mapping and road conditions. Garmin's cute little $100 gadgets don't come close.

They could... If they'd strike a low speed cellular data deal for them and include it in the price, like the early Kindles did and still have...

Another area the Garmin simply can't compete is in finding business names. Waze does it with a combination of searches. It has its own data, and at the bottom of the search screen you can choose Google, Yahoo, and various others. And it does the query in real time. New business? No problem. It'll probably be in there. It'll grab the address and route you right to it.

The Garmins only get used on long road trips on Interstates and even then only if the phone is getting used for something else or doesn't have coverage.

The only data that all GPS data collection companies still seem reluctant to add is bridge and overpass heights. Rand McNally has a co-branded Magellan (I think) that has them --ostensibly for big rigs and RVs -- and it gets horrible reviews. Their iPad app is even worse.

The feature request and comment thread to get Google to add bridge heights, and a way to limit routes by vehicle height, is years old and many pages long. They aren't going to do it. You're still better off with a paper Commercial Vehicle Atlas, and those are running upward of $100 and don't include changes for construction.

I wouldn't put the Garmin hardware units in the "better" category. I'd put them in the "good enough as a backup when cellular data fails" category.

I moved the iPhone's to TMobile last year. Arguably either the third or fourth worst carrier for coverage in the entire country. I was interested to see how they did on the OSH trip this year. Was prepared with paper and the Garmin as backup but wanted to see how Waze worked out on a long route I already knew.

We had data coverage throughout the trip adequate for something like Waze from Denver to OSH with the notable exceptions being passing through Lincoln, NE until Omaha and over the bridge into Iowa, and the entire State of Iowa, where apparently the roaming agreement is so poor that it was throttled until it croaked. Everywhere else the roaming agreements were "fine" but not stellar speeds. Plenty for an App like Waze, though, and checking in on email once in a while.

This is on their $100 for two lines Unlimited voice, text, and data plan, which has been refreshing compared to Verizon's pricing. Flat rate and it works very well considering TMo's coverage struggles outside of metro areas.

I am aside about being "back" on a truly unlimited plan... I used over 3GB of data last month on just my phone. iPad used some more. I don't even care when Foreflight warns that I'm updating map data over cellular anymore. Haha. Go for it! (I'd love a checkbox in the settings that says "don't warn me, my data plan is unlimited, so I don't care", but then again I'd also love it if it'd just update itself without having to launch it and fiddle with it. :) ) I had an early Verizon unlimited plan many years ago and kicked myself numerous times for dropping it. Nice to be back to data pricing sanity. $600 a year per person for unlimited isn't too awful, really. I've figured out ways (Waze? Heh) that I could make it marginally cheaper by playing games with pre-paid plans or watching the meter closely, but $50/mo post-paid per person for the two of us, for unlimited data and everything else is really hard to beat for the brain dead simplicity.

Anyway, morphed into a cell phone data post, but Waze and others really are better than Garmin units at this point in the game, as long as you have that cell data connection. And I'm on a crappy carrier and had no problems anywhere other than Iowa with mine. ;)
 
Too bad there's not a road version of the GDL39 .. it works nice.

RT
The problem is the GDL39 is a combination ADS-B and GPS receiver that works only with Garmin EFB apps, just as the Stratus combination ADS-B and GPS receiver works only with ForeFlight (unless someone hacks them, of course).

OTOH, there are a slew of GPS-only (no ADS-B) receivers (including the Garmin GLO) that will provide a GPS location feed to any app (air or ground) that wants it, with the only proviso being that some only work with an iOS device or an Android device, while others will work with both.

For example, I use a Stratus with ForeFlight but still have my "old" GNS5820 external Bluetooth GPS, partially as a backup and partially for when I need to use a different app.
 
Rich,

You don't live where there's much construction, right? ;)

I have a dedicated in the stereo (Kenwood/Garmin) unit in two of our vehicles. They're wrong about exits and freak out at highway intersections that changed due to construction. In Kenwood/Garmin's deal, updates aren't free.

They also won't route around traffic even though both have the FM sub carrier receiver for traffic and will display it.

Heck, I reported a road open that Google showed closed for years. And another that had been closed (and huge poles driven through the road surface as bollards) for years.

In Waze, I can do this...

770bc8ea988f8d2064351281664f8e5a.jpg


To get Garmin's data fixed with my free labor meant finding an obscure web page on their website that would only work with a desktop browser. I finally did it out of annoyance weeks after I realized the Garmins were routing around the best road to go someplace constantly.

For my free labor reporting their data screwup, I got... Nothing. And paid $70 for each head unit to upgrade their data when they finally fixed their upstream data months later.

You and I both agree that Google and their know-everything data collection may not be the best thing ever for the world, for various reasons, but it's hard to beat them on mapping and road conditions. Garmin's cute little $100 gadgets don't come close.

They could... If they'd strike a low speed cellular data deal for them and include it in the price, like the early Kindles did and still have...

Another area the Garmin simply can't compete is in finding business names. Waze does it with a combination of searches. It has its own data, and at the bottom of the search screen you can choose Google, Yahoo, and various others. And it does the query in real time. New business? No problem. It'll probably be in there. It'll grab the address and route you right to it.

The Garmins only get used on long road trips on Interstates and even then only if the phone is getting used for something else or doesn't have coverage.

The only data that all GPS data collection companies still seem reluctant to add is bridge and overpass heights. Rand McNally has a co-branded Magellan (I think) that has them --ostensibly for big rigs and RVs -- and it gets horrible reviews. Their iPad app is even worse.

The feature request and comment thread to get Google to add bridge heights, and a way to limit routes by vehicle height, is years old and many pages long. They aren't going to do it. You're still better off with a paper Commercial Vehicle Atlas, and those are running upward of $100 and don't include changes for construction.

I wouldn't put the Garmin hardware units in the "better" category. I'd put them in the "good enough as a backup when cellular data fails" category.

I moved the iPhone's to TMobile last year. Arguably either the third or fourth worst carrier for coverage in the entire country. I was interested to see how they did on the OSH trip this year. Was prepared with paper and the Garmin as backup but wanted to see how Waze worked out on a long route I already knew.

We had data coverage throughout the trip adequate for something like Waze from Denver to OSH with the notable exceptions being passing through Lincoln, NE until Omaha and over the bridge into Iowa, and the entire State of Iowa, where apparently the roaming agreement is so poor that it was throttled until it croaked. Everywhere else the roaming agreements were "fine" but not stellar speeds. Plenty for an App like Waze, though, and checking in on email once in a while.

This is on their $100 for two lines Unlimited voice, text, and data plan, which has been refreshing compared to Verizon's pricing. Flat rate and it works very well considering TMo's coverage struggles outside of metro areas.

I am aside about being "back" on a truly unlimited plan... I used over 3GB of data last month on just my phone. iPad used some more. I don't even care when Foreflight warns that I'm updating map data over cellular anymore. Haha. Go for it! (I'd love a checkbox in the settings that says "don't warn me, my data plan is unlimited, so I don't care", but then again I'd also love it if it'd just update itself without having to launch it and fiddle with it. :) ) I had an early Verizon unlimited plan many years ago and kicked myself numerous times for dropping it. Nice to be back to data pricing sanity. $600 a year per person for unlimited isn't too awful, really. I've figured out ways (Waze? Heh) that I could make it marginally cheaper by playing games with pre-paid plans or watching the meter closely, but $50/mo post-paid per person for the two of us, for unlimited data and everything else is really hard to beat for the brain dead simplicity.

Anyway, morphed into a cell phone data post, but Waze and others really are better than Garmin units at this point in the game, as long as you have that cell data connection. And I'm on a crappy carrier and had no problems anywhere other than Iowa with mine. ;)

Like I said, whatever floats your boat. I haven't had any problems at all with dedicated units except when I accidentally left "shortest distance" enabled in the preferences after one trip where it made sense, and wound up being routed over some pretty scary "roads," if you want to even call them that. "Avoid tolls" can also produce some interesting routes when I'm downstate, but works out well up here.

No, we don't have a lot of new road construction. There's a lot of old road resurfacing and repaving, but they usually don't detour here. They just do one direction at a time. They also do it very quickly, unlike downstate. They resurfaced all of Sparrow Fart in about three days. My road (about two or three miles long) took about two or three hours, and they did it without closing the road. I was impressed.

As for using Waze or anything else owned by Google, I'd rather go back to paper maps.

Rich
 
I have a dedicated in the stereo (Kenwood/Garmin) unit in two of our vehicles. They're wrong about exits and freak out at highway intersections that changed due to construction. In Kenwood/Garmin's deal, updates aren't free.
My favorite dedicated in-dash unit is mine, in a 2008 Lexus with an updated 2012 database. I started using Waze in the middle of a 4 hour trip when I realized my dash unit was an idiot. On an even longer trip, just to see if it would repeat it's stupidity I gave it my destination, but followed Waze.

At the beginning of the trip, Waze told me it would be 9 hours. Flight direction would be north/northwest. My dash unit said 15. Understandable since the Waze route was pretty much direct and the dash unit thought the best way was by going northeast to Washington DC first.

The 5-6 hour discrepancy between the two continued until about half the trip was over, despite the dash unity consistently recalculation as I ignored it. Waze said about 4 hours left; dash unit said 9. That is until, while on an interstate, I ignored the dash unit's insistence that I get off at the next exit. 30 seconds after we passed the exit, the dash unity dropped 5 hours.

Like you, I leave Waze on even when I know where I'm going. The number of times it has routed me around accidents and heavy traffic with very little loss of overall time has bee a consistent source of amazement. The first time I heard "Heavy traffic ahead! I have a better route! Turn left in quarter mile" I was shocked.
 
Copilot downloads all the maps locally, well, the paid version at least, no data will be needed while using it while driving. Just make sure you download them all first.(unless you want ActiveTraffic or other features like that.) I've had no problems with using it in the car.
 
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