Got this clearance today

DavidWhite

DavidWhite

Final Approach
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
7,133
Location
Olympic Peninsula
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Display name:
DW
While departing from SNA

DANAH V363 V64 TRM V208 TNP V208 EED V12 DRK

I managed to get it all written down and didn't even need to ask him to repeat. I guess this is kind of a bragging post, but bragging that I had the best CFII in the world who taught me well enough to handle some of the busiest airspace in the world.

Thanks Jesse!
 
I hate when they give airway to airway instructions. I have yet to fly an FMS that will accept it. Foreflight used to do it but now will not, instead requiring and entry point and exit point to the airways, just like the box does.

: (
 
Captain said:
I hate when they give airway to airway instructions. I have yet to fly an FMS that will accept it. Foreflight used to do it but now will not, instead requiring and entry point and exit point to the airways, just like the box does.

: (
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Not the easiest, but all you have I do is whip out he chart and find the intersection where they meet.


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Oh, I do it all the time. It's just a PITA.
 
Yup. That looks annoying...

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What did you actually end up flying for the first few segments? Did they keep you on the airways or was it just the typical computer spitting out garbage while ATC sends you a more rational route?
 
After you file do you ever use Flightaware to see what they are going to give you?

On my last trip up to Concord I filed DIRECT but checked Flightaware and had the route written down when I called for the clearance.
 
i got a cluster like that coming out of st. louis one night. the JPI said 'hey dumbass youdon't have enough fuel for that' and then once i got handed off to approach they cleared me direct anyway. i was so glad i wasted so much time on the ground putting all of that in the 480...

otherwise i think my entire IFR career has been "cleared direct, as filed"
 
DavidWhite said:
While departing from SNA

DANAH V363 V64 TRM V208 TNP V208 EED V12 DRK

I managed to get it all written down and didn't even need to ask him to repeat. I guess this is kind of a bragging post, but bragging that I had the best CFII in the world who taught me well enough to handle some of the busiest airspace in the world.

Thanks Jesse!
Click to expand...

That's the shortest clearance I've ever seen SoCal issue.
 
I've gotten a few clearances with no defined intersection at two airways. Not a big deal today with Foreflight. I still remember the time I got one and didn't have the chart to see the radials. Humble radio call followed...
 
tonycondon said:
i got a cluster like that coming out of st. louis one night. the JPI said 'hey dumbass youdon't have enough fuel for that' and then once i got handed off to approach they cleared me direct anyway. i was so glad i wasted so much time on the ground putting all of that in the 480...

otherwise i think my entire IFR career has been "cleared direct, as filed"
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I've never figured out what the GNS480 generates for ETE when you have a disco in the flight plan. It's a big number.
 
well i had about an hour extra for the planned direct-ish flight. with the longer route assigned and the slow groundspeed during climbout the fuel at arrival was quite negative. pushing direct to fixed that though.
 
Sac Arrow said:
Yeah no kidding. I usually cancel as soon as I climb to VFR conditions just to avoid jacked up routings.
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LGB is in a funny spot behind Signal Hill and in the mornings it will sometimes have a thin cloud right about 200 though 300' just over LGB airport with the entire rest of the basin clear. Of course you still get issued and copy a half a paragraph clearance that takes you 62 miles to go 15.
 
You can argue about these routings (frankly, I don't like them either, I agree with Steve, if the computer can generate an intersection of the airway it can spit out the actual FIX, CNF, or radial/distance of the intersection point).

Frankly, you have to be prepared to fly those things anyhow without being a slave to the purple line. Just Sunday I got a "Turn right to 160 intersect V166 Eastbound then as filed" in the middle of the flight. Turned the bug to 160 and pressed HDG and then poked at the GPS for a few seconds to figure out how to get the thing to select the leg with the intersection point (fortunately it was pretty easy to eyeball on the map).
Punched the HDG-NAV to get the autopilot to intercept it.

Of course, there's always the "Oh screw it" Push the RED button and do it the manual way.
 
I'm a pretty big believer in the box. I do my best to make the box represent what my clearance is. Some anal retentive things I do in this regard:

1) If ATC gives me a clearance limit of a waypoint or VOR then I actually build a hold on the fix. First, that's what you're supposed to do if you actually hit your clearance limit, and second, it give me mid-recurrent practice entering holds. To date I don't think I've ever actually entered the hold in this scenario.

2) If ATC tells me to depart a fix on some heading I'll build a leg on that course. Say the instruction is to depart VHP on a 270 heading. I'll build a point in the box on VHP 270 radial at say 15 nm. That way if I forget at least the plane will turn all by its self to generally the right direction. I know a course and heading don't always line up, but it's closer than not turning at all and serves to remind me of my clearance.

3) many guys add the Airport to the end of an arrival (STAR). I always take these out. It's sort of a pet peeve of mine but if the arrival ends with a fix, or worse, a vector then adding the airport to the end negates that. Again, I want the box to always represent what we are expected to do.


Now with all that said, sometimes you do have to say 'screw it' and just fly the raw data. Just the other day we were flying from KAZO to KORD and ATC gave me a VOR radial to join 27L LOC. I was only a few miles from the VOR and didn't have time to program the box. So I just dialled up the VOR, switched to green needles and flew the raw data.

Although, once we were on our way I then programmed the box and when it was set up we switched back to white needles (FMS Laterial Nav).
 
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'Spin push' has always been my qualm with entering amendments, that's what they got right with the GTN series, rubber banding.
 
Looks like David has a real high flying 172. Flightaware has him 19k and climbing.
 
Bwing96 said:
Looks like David has a real high flying 172. Flightaware has him 19k and climbing.
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Don't know about 19K, but he posted photos of himself with O2 cannula stuffed in his nose on FB yesterday. He looks funny.
 
So I just dialled up the VOR, switched to green needles and flew the raw data.

You hand flew just like us peons?
Don't you have to turn in your ATP if you do that?
 
Captain said:
I hate when they give airway to airway instructions. I have yet to fly an FMS that will accept it. Foreflight used to do it but now will not, instead requiring and entry point and exit point to the airways, just like the box does.

: (
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LOL the G1000 accepts airways! So, I can setup a flight plan faster and more efficiently than a 757?
 
spiderweb said:
LOL the G1000 accepts airways! So, I can setup a flight plan faster and more efficiently than a 757?
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Airway to airway without an intersection, like above? I'm curious if a G1000 would barf on that too, just like everything else does...
 
Neither will the 480...You key an airway, the only thing you can enter next is a fix along the airway.
 
After you write all that down, you take off - and this is what you get.

SoCal: N12345, climb and maintain 11000, turn left direct ELB, direct PDZ, Direct TRM when able rest of route unchanged.

or you get a bunch of vectors to some intersection - resume own nav. . . .they don't EVER expect you to actually fly what they give you when you are leaving the basin.

That said most of the time the TEC routes in basin are pretty logical - drop you into the final or set you up for the most used instrument approach.
 
Heh. He's not posting it here, but he's got a panel shot at FL190 up now also. ;)
 
Fearless Tower said:
Dang, didn't even catch that until Nate posted the chart. There us no intersection fix for those two airways. That is jacked up.
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It's really ironic that there is commercially available equipment that can't handle airway crossings where there is no fix, yet the government computers can handle them. Usually we think of commercially available equipment as being more advanced than the government stuff.
 
Last time I got a clearance out of socal, it was right turn-out, up to FL350 direct FSM. Thank god I had 100 kts at my back, or might have had to pass up such an unusually awesome clnc :)
 
Palmpilot said:
It's really ironic that there is commercially available equipment that can't handle airway crossings where there is no fix, yet the government computers can handle them. Usually we think of commercially available equipment as being more advanced than the government stuff.
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who is to say he actually could have flown that! :yikes::eek::D
 
There is a trick to getting what you want from the folks at SoCal. I was at CGAS LA and all I had to do was say: "Coast Guard Rescue 1342 requires immediate clearance outbound to the coast." I was never refused.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Dang, didn't even catch that until Nate posted the chart. There us no intersection fix for those two airways. That is jacked up.
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I think if I got that clearance, on the 480 I'd be tempted to enter it as DANAH V363 ELB COREL V64 TRM... and then just switch over to the radios and fly the radials to COREL if I hadn't received an amended clearance by then. How would the gurus here deal with it?

Ha! I just realized where David is... that's a pretty long way from home! Or is he doing this on a sim?
 
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