Good Car Security?

Ted

Ted

Twin Engine Ted
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My brother-in-law's truck (1990 Suburban) got stolen a couple of weeks ago. It was that old style column that's a Gone in 60 Seconds special. No security or alarm system in the vehicle. Probably a couple of meth heads, and the cops aren't in a hurry to find it.

We're figuring it's gone, and I'm talking to him about what his next vehicle will be. A Suburban fits his needs well, so probably an early 2000s one would be a good option. Let's say 2000 model year.

I don't know anything about the factory alarm or disabling devices on these. Obviously he's concerned about his next vehicle getting stolen. My thought for general disabling is to pull the fuse for the ECU or fuel pump. I've generally not bothered with alarms or the like because theft hasn't been something I've worried about, and I worry about messing with factory wiring that might get messed up.

So, any suggestions? Does LoJack still exist? Any particular system or GPS tracker? A tracker is probably equally or more useful - be able to find it when it's stolen.
 
On Counting Cars, a lady had her IROC-Z stolen like 3 or 5 times. Somewhere in the vehicle, (they obviously didn't show where on the show) they installed a simple switch that was upstream of the starter. Was impossible to hot wire it.
 
jeez i would imagine that having a 1990 suburban would be the best way to keep your car from getting stolen.
 
tonycondon said:
jeez i would imagine that having a 1990 suburban would be the best way to keep your car from getting stolen.
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Remember, meth heads. They probably thought: "DUDE! It's a Ferrari! Why are there spiders and cockroaches everywhere?"

Actually it was a good truck. He's bummed, as I would be.
 
DSC05953.JPG
 
Newer cars have passive anti-theft built in that uses a RF transponder in the key - if you don't have a key that has been programmed into that particular vehicle the powertrain control module is, essentially, dead.

It's reasonably effective at preventing someone from driving it away - and that's one of the reasons that more older cars are getting stolen.

But I don't know what models / years it would have been phased in for GM vehicles.
 
i guess the best strategy is to drive something that even a meth head would bring back
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Newer cars have passive anti-theft built in that uses a RF transponder in the key - if you don't have a key that has been programmed into that particular vehicle the powertrain control module is, essentially, dead.

It's reasonably effective at preventing someone from driving it away - and that's one of the reasons that more older cars are getting stolen.

But I don't know what models / years it would have been phased in for GM vehicles.
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I'm going off memory here but I think most GM vehicles in the 90s had that (Passlock?). Also if I recall PassLock 2 came out in the late 90s which got rid of the resistor in the key and instead put it somewhere in the ignition switch. Or something like that.

I know my '98 Sunfire had Passlock 2
 
I've had cars that I wish would have been stolen. As others have said, newer cars have the RFID keyed systems. That's why it costs so much to replace a lost key. Still, I'm pretty sure that if someone really wants that car, they'll find a way.
 
He needs this...


Seriously, my parents had a early 90's (before 95) Buick, and it had the resistor chip in the key thingie. From what I understand, that system was not very difficult to bypass for a determined thief, but it was enough to keep the meth heads from stealing the car.
 
Or you get something like my old 1981 Buick Skylark. Locksmiths hated that thing. It was almost impossible to break into with the way the locks worked. I had to have my wife bring a spare key to work once when I locked the key in the car. The contractor called by work couldn't get in without breaking the glass.

Of course, now that car would be theft-proof as it probably doesn't run anymore, but I got rid of it years ago, so that is conjecture on my part. :D
 
My 52 styleline is better than lojack. These a-holes don't understand 3 on the tree, push-button starters, manual choke, or probably any form of manual transmission at all.

It doesn't even need a key. The top is never up.

Anyway, for me, my best anti-theft has been a sound insurance policy. I can't be bothered to protect my things from people who want them more than I do. Where possible, I over-insure on stated value policies, so I can dry my tears with a few extra grand. :dunno:
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Newer cars have passive anti-theft built in that uses a RF transponder in the key - if you don't have a key that has been programmed into that particular vehicle the powertrain control module is, essentially, dead.
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Newer than what? The 2000 suburban he has doesn't have transponder keys. I think they weren't even an option until 2006.

My 2000 Suburban had a dealer installed alarm/ignition defeat. It was pathetically easy to defeat if you know how GM does the alarm interface.
 
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The damn 'Club' - as ugly as it is - is pretty darn effective. . . .
 
flyingron said:
Newer than what? The 2000 suburban he has doesn't have transponder keys. I think they weren't even an option until 2006.

My 2000 Suburban had a dealer installed alarm/ignition defeat. It was pathetically easy to defeat if you know how GM does the alarm interface.
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Ford started phasing it in during the late '90s IIRC.
 
Funny thing now instead of hot wiring, the pros use wreckers either wheel lift type or rollbacks. Doesn't look suspicious, people think it's either broken down or being repo'd and don't give them a second look. :dunno:
When was the last time any of us looked when we heard a car alarm? ;)
 
If a pro wants your car it is gone,

Best we can do is stop the idiots and opportunists
 
I was thinking the 007 alarm on the Lotus in "for your eyes only"
 
I've had one of these for a while. Kept it on the brake pedal of my automatic Tracker, and currently use it on the clutch pedal of my Mustang.

http://www.amazon.com/Unknown-The-UNBREAKABLE-AutoLock-PRO/dp/B0007ZFTHW

They've pried out the door locks and the ignition cylinder, but never any luck getting this thing off, and with it in place, even if they take the time to dive under the dash and bypass the kill switch, they will still be discouraged with the car stuck in neutral, or even 1st gear (where I usually leave it).They've even gone so far as to bend the pedal arm several degrees by using it as a lever, but no joy. Even it's no longer upright, it is just plain in the way, and to start my car you have to depress the clutch pedal all the way, and then some.

It is beatable, however... I once forgot I had my spare keys on me (no key for the lock at that time), and found myself stuck in a mall parking lot. Had my cordless drill with me, but it would have taken all night and several bits to drill out the cylinder. so I went to Sears and bought a 3-foot J-bar, and eventually pried it open enough to get it off the pedal. Took me about an hour, which is way more time than your usual car thief wants to spend. Took a lot of grunting and swearing. It also was a very conspicuous operation, to say the least... fortunately, security was busy elsewhere, or smart enough to deduce that I was not a car thief, but merely an idiot. :D

Best news of all: I was able to hammer the lock back into shape and it still works great. :D
Steering wheel clubs, although a pretty good deterrent, are a joke for any thief with a cordless Sawzall or grinder, or even a very fresh hacksaw blade and sheer ambition. Steering wheels are just not as tough as the clubs. I think it would take longer to cut through my Auto Lock than it took me to pry it loose.
 
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Skylane81E said:
If a pro wants your car it is gone,

Best we can do is stop the idiots and opportunists
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Fortunately, in my neck of the woods it seems to be mostly punks looking for a joyride or to bring it to a chop shop for some quick cash. But a real pro wouldn't look twice at my "Little Bandit" because she is hardly a prize example of the type. :D
I am surprised, however, that nobody's stolen the catalytic converters yet... it has four of them. Some of my neighbors have lost their cats to thieves with cordless saws; takes very little time, although it's a noisy operation.
 
I am lucky, my wagon has the cats tucked next to the engine and my Saturn is to low for a quick grab.

SWIMBO had hers stolen off her corolla a couple of years ago on the 4th of July in the crowded parking lot of our old apt complex. They just took the radio out of my wagon twice.
 
Well, at least got a couple of useful suggestions.

Picked up the new truck today. It needs a fuel pump, so I get to drop the tank and put that in. I'm overjoyed. :mad2:

But otherwise, it is a good vehicle that should serve him well for a long time. I think he'll be happy with it. Anyway, it does have the factory GM security (whatever that means), but I think I'll add a couple of other bits for him, including a tracking device.

I realize that determined thieves will ultimately outwit any security system. And I also agree that the best security is good insurance, which he'll want for this vehicle since it's worth enough to make it worthwhile. That said, having some sort of deterrent that helps to make the methheads look someplace else is also worthwhile.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Well, at least got a couple of useful suggestions.

Picked up the new truck today. It needs a fuel pump, so I get to drop the tank and put that in. I'm overjoyed. :mad2:

But otherwise, it is a good vehicle that should serve him well for a long time. I think he'll be happy with it. Anyway, it does have the factory GM security (whatever that means), but I think I'll add a couple of other bits for him, including a tracking device.

I realize that determined thieves will ultimately outwit any security system. And I also agree that the best security is good insurance, which he'll want for this vehicle since it's worth enough to make it worthwhile. That said, having some sort of deterrent that helps to make the methheads look someplace else is also worthwhile.
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Is this a newer Suburban? If so you can cut an access panel in the rear under the carpet to change the fuel pump. Done neatly it isn't detracting IMO. They seem to go out quite a bit (especially is operated with low fuel often), so you might be doing it again. BTW that 40 Gallon tank is HEAVY. Thinking about the rust you enjoy up there, yup I'd cut it.
 
I drive ugly POS's with sticks. Been driving 30 years, none stolen. Not even in Oakland.

Worst thing that ever got stolen was a $40 car stereo when parked in front of a wrecking yard known for that sort of thing.
 
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A hidden fuel pump shut off switch works pretty good. I have a scanner that I can program most(not all) cars and can even do it without a current key. So as you see even the factory system can be bypassed. The good thing is most meth heads won't pay 8k for the scanner.
 
Alexb2000 said:
BTW that 40 Gallon tank is HEAVY.
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That's why you drain the tank first. Tank drops aren't nearly so bad when they are empty. And I do mean completely empty. Don't trust the fuel gauge.

Hand pumps are cheap and really worth it.

I hope the pump really is bad, as I've seen people blame it when the MIL has been on for months. Confirm the fault with a resistance or flow test first. Quite a number of vehicles will shut the pump if if the PCM doesn't see an ignition event.
 
rottydaddy said:
Even it's no longer upright, it is just plain in the way, and to start my car you have to depress the clutch pedal all the way, and then some.
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If you're kind enough to leave it in 1st, all they'd have to do is short out the clutch position sensor. They wouldn't be leaving very quickly, but they'd be able to do it. It's usually just a switch that closes when the pedal is depressed far enough, and it's usually right there on the clutch arm, wiring completely exposed.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Picked up the new truck today. It needs a fuel pump, so I get to drop the tank and put that in. I'm overjoyed. :mad2:
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The bane of everyone who's owned that era of GM truck. They all go eventually. And it'll go again, eventually... the replacements aren't any better engineered.
 
Alexb2000 said:
Is this a newer Suburban? If so you can cut an access panel in the rear under the carpet to change the fuel pump. Done neatly it isn't detracting IMO. They seem to go out quite a bit (especially is operated with low fuel often), so you might be doing it again. BTW that 40 Gallon tank is HEAVY. Thinking about the rust you enjoy up there, yup I'd cut it.
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I've dropped tanks before and, well, it completely sucks. Even dropped the 40 gallon tank in my 95 Suburban... full. This one is a 2000. Annoying, we replaced the fuel pump in the old (90) Suburban in October. I hate fuel pumps. :mad2:

I'll see if I can get some good images for where to cut a hole for an access panel. If I can, probably be worth doing it that way.

Oh, and my wife's Avalanche has 142k on it, also. I guess that'll be the next one to go. :mad2: :mad2: :mad2:
 
Other thing to figure out - the center console is lockable with a key different from the main key. I'll probably have to go to the dealer to get a replacement.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I've dropped tanks before and, well, it completely sucks. Even dropped the 40 gallon tank in my 95 Suburban... full. This one is a 2000. Annoying, we replaced the fuel pump in the old (90) Suburban in October. I hate fuel pumps. :mad2:

I'll see if I can get some good images for where to cut a hole for an access panel. If I can, probably be worth doing it that way.

Oh, and my wife's Avalanche has 142k on it, also. I guess that'll be the next one to go. :mad2: :mad2: :mad2:
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Chevy should have put an access panel in all of these vehicles from the factory. If you happen to have a lift, a transmission jack with a fuel tank adapter, etc. then it isn't that big of a job to drop it. Maybe that was the justification for saving $1 a vehicle.

Of course the fuel pump always goes out on a road trip in January, in a snow storm, in some small town with a mechanic like the ones in Vacation. That's why I want to be able to change it in 30 minutes by myself anywhere it happens.

I would make a really neat cut, put in some rivnuts, get a larger size panel by cutting a larger piece from a junkyard body, lay in a strip of foam seal tape and you're ready for next time.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Other thing to figure out - the center console is lockable with a key different from the main key. I'll probably have to go to the dealer to get a replacement.
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Assuming it is unlocked now. Take out the lock cylinder and get the number off it. There are several vendors on ebay selling GM console keys for less than $10 if you have your lock number. Or, since GM doesn't have a reference for console locks by VIN so they will have get you one by lock cylinder number also.
 
Thanks, Alex, good tips. I'll just pull the lock cylinder number and order a new key that way.

I'm with you on having an access panel. Mitsubishi put one in on my car, which has been very useful. I'll see if I can find a good how-to online that shows where to cut the hole so I don't just guess at it and get it wrong. Fortunately this pump is dying not dead so I was able to drive it back home, but I wouldn't trust it to drive the 750 miles or so to Nebraska. Get that done this weekend and see if anything else major needs to be done before it goes to Nebraska. Probably do fluids for good measure, but I want to leave him some sweat equity to put in.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Thanks, Alex, good tips. I'll just pull the lock cylinder number and order a new key that way.

I'm with you on having an access panel. Mitsubishi put one in on my car, which has been very useful. I'll see if I can find a good how-to online that shows where to cut the hole so I don't just guess at it and get it wrong. Fortunately this pump is dying not dead so I was able to drive it back home, but I wouldn't trust it to drive the 750 miles or so to Nebraska. Get that done this weekend and see if anything else major needs to be done before it goes to Nebraska. Probably do fluids for good measure, but I want to leave him some sweat equity to put in.
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I'm sure you'll work it out, but I would make sure and measure it out for myself before cutting. All of them I've done I spent some time locating and sizing the cutout to get it just right. I leave about an extra 1" to 1.5" larger than the fuel pump lock ring except on the side with the fuel lines. Where the fuel lines come into the tank I cut back about 3-4 inches from the edge of the lock ring. That way I can access those fuel line quick connect fittings easily.

To make the cut I start in the corners using a small hole saw (so the corners have a radius to prevent stress risers). Then I connect the corners with a pneumatic cutoff tool. Off course be very careful with over penetration, but overall it's a breeze.
 
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