GNS-480/CNX-80 Still Relevant?

BGF_Yankee

BGF_Yankee

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BGF_Yankee
Looking around today at what's available and was wondering if people still consider these units when looking for a used IFR capable GPS. I have a little experience with one and I know they aren't the same as using a 430/530, but would you do it?
 
I believe they are still fully relevant boxes, personally I always preferred the 480 architecture to the 430. I consider the 480 more relevant than the 430, but would probably spring for the 750 because finally it is a box worth spending the money on. Both the 480 and the 430 annoy me in their interface, the 480 not so much so. The 750 got it right.
 
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I'm not sure Garmin has yet made available the long awaited patch it needs to be used for ads-B out. Might want to double check that if you're really interested.
 
I find them a little bit clunky. They are not as easy to use as a 430/530 or 650/750

That said, they are fully capable. As long as they are supported by Garmin

What you don't want, is to have a flight club with several planes, all having 430/530 and 650/750 garmin GPS, then have ONE plane with a GNS-480.
 
I have one. I like it better than a 430w, but yes they are getting long in the tooth. Word is that Garmin is going to do one final software update for them in the next couple months to add ADS-B out position source compliance and LP+V capability.

If you're talking used and don't want to spring for a 650/750, sure, I wouldn't hesitate. Just realize that their useful life will be shorter than a 650/750, and probably the 430/530. I think there are only 5000 or so 480s in existence.
 
dans2992 said:
I have one. I like it better than a 430w, but yes they are getting long in the tooth. Word is that Garmin is going to do one final software update for them in the next couple months to add ADS-B out position source compliance and LP+V capability.

If you're talking used and don't want to spring for a 650/750, sure, I wouldn't hesitate. Just realize that their useful life will be shorter than a 650/750, and probably the 430/530. I think there are only 5000 or so 480s in existence.
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Yeah, when I was buying, I was sorely tempted to go 480. The 750/650 didn't exist then, otherwise I would have got a 750, but I knew there was something better coming because I ****ed the Garmin guy at OSH into blurting it out.:D So I got the 430W because it was the cheapest thing I could buy that would serve the purpose, (a used 480 was not significantly cheaper) plus I was promised a full trade value on upgrade to what was coming from the shop. So, the 430W made the most sense.

There are now the Avidyne slide in replacements for the 430 and 530 series that I have heard wonderful things about, but have seen none in real life to comment outside "If they are what I heard, they are a very cool upgrade option that gets you the benefits of upgrading to a GTN series radios with no install cost."
 
BGF_Yankee said:
Looking around today at what's available and was wondering if people still consider these units when looking for a used IFR capable GPS. I have a little experience with one and I know they aren't the same as using a 430/530, but would you do it?
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Well do you consider RNAV, VOR, ILS and LPV (after the update) approahes still relevant?

The GNS series will shoot every approach a GTN650 will, also some professional pilots still prefer the GNS series.
 
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James331 said:
Well do you consider RNAV, VOR, ILS and LPV (after the update) approahes still relevant?

The GNS series will shoot every approach a GTN650 will, also some professional pilots still prefer the GNS series.
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You can't compare the needs of a 1000hr a year pro pilot with a 40-50hr a year GA pilot. Besides, most pro pilots that work an FMS tend to prefer the 480 architecture. The GNS architecture is a kludge at best. I defy anyone to enter an IFR clearance amendment into Long Beach coming from Vegas when the basin is IFR into a 430/530 in time. You will be given a clearance at Lake Arrowhead that will require you to enter 23 or 28 waypoints, including a couple of dogleg waypoints in Victor airways, because you will be given a Victor Airway routing. I couldn't do it. Spin push spin push spin push...."SoCal, hey look, I can't punch that all into this radio fast enough, and don't have the charts to do it the old way. How about vectors, or I'll proceed Seal Beach VFR own Nav and pick up a clearance and sequencing there." They chose to give me vectors, still was really annoying to not have V-Airway capability in the database, especially when it exists in the G-1000.

Garmin has come up with an interesting upgrade solution though. A Bluetooth link that lets you program and update your GNS series boxes through an iPad and Garmin Pilot. This effectively gives you a GTN interface to your GNS box, and that is an awesome deal. However I have not yet seen it in effect, but haven't checked in with Av in a while. That is certainly another option. If you are strictly looking foe WAAS GPS on a budget, there is the 400W as well, and it should also accept the Bluetooth module.

Rubberbanding is a powerful tool, especially hand flying IMC.
 
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Normally I can just put the airways into foreflight, mos airways only require two waypoints or so, hasn't been a issue for me.

Id also imagine most people flying IFR for work ain't hand flying, or have a SIC to enter in waypoints.

Still its sad that Garmin has to hold back features in earlier units to make their new units seem like a upgrade.
 
I'm currently training an old former USAF C-141 pilot who recently bought a Lancair ES with a GNS480 and is trying to recapture his IFR skills after quite a few years of only VFR flying. It's taking him significantly longer to learn that unit than folks usually take to learn a 430/530. That's not an inherently bad thing, just a result of the power and flexibility of the 480, which is more reminiscent of a modern transport category FMS than a typical light GA GPS/nav/comm unit. As such, it has a lot more capability than the average personal aircraft owner/pilot needs, so the additional effort to learn its complexities has little return when compared to the GTN650/750, which are a lot easier to learn.

One barrier to training with the 480 is the lack of comprehensive high quality training materials such as are widely available for the far more numerous 430/530 systems. That shifts a lot more of the learning process to one-on-one training with a CFI who knows the unit. I can have someone with a 430/530 spend $110 and go through this training package, and they're pretty much ready to jump in the plane and start applying their knowledge under instructor supervision. OTOH, with the 480, I have to spend a lot of hours working with the downloadable simulator before they're ready for that.

So, if I were buying a new unit of that sort today, I'd choose a GTN750. If I were buying a used unit, I'd choose a GNS530W. But if a plane I wanted already had a CNX80/GNS480 installed, that wouldn't be a barrier to purchase, and I would not give it any greater or lesser value compared to a GNS530W or GTN750 installed in the same plane.
 
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Ron Levy said:
I'm currently training an old former USAF C-141 pilot who recently bought a Lancair ES with a GNS480 and is trying to recapture his IFR skills after quite a few years of only VFR flying. It's taking him significantly longer to learn that unit than folks usually take to learn a 430/530. That's not an inherently bad thing, just a result of the power and flexibility of the 480, which is more reminiscent of a modern transport category FMS than a typical light GA GPS/nav/comm unit. As such, it has a lot more capability than the average personal aircraft owner/pilot needs, so the additional effort to learn its complexities has little return when compared to the GTN650/750, which are a lot easier to learn.

One barrier to training with the 480 is the lack of comprehensive high quality training materials such as are widely available for the far more numerous 430/530 systems. That shifts a lot more of the learning process to one-on-one training with a CFI who knows the unit. I can have someone with a 430/530 spend $110 and go through this training package, and they're pretty much ready to jump in the plane and start applying their knowledge under instructor supervision. OTOH, with the 480, I have to spend a lot of hours working with the downloadable simulator before they're ready for that.

So, if I were buying a new unit of that sort today, I'd choose a GTN750. If I were buying a used unit, I'd choose a GNS530W. But if a plane I wanted already had a CNX80/GNS480 installed, that wouldn't be a barrier to purchase, and I would not give it any greater or lesser value compared to a GNS530W or GTN750 installed in the same plane.
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Simulator?

http://gns-480-simulator.software.informer.com
 
There used to be a good third party training CD for the 480, I had a copy years ago and it was well done. I haven't seen it in years, but I may still have it in a box of stuff.
 
Ron Levy said:
The Garmin downloadable simulator is a simulator, but that's all it is -- it's not a trainer. As such, it's great for an instructor who knows the 480 well to use as a training aid, but it's not going to teach someone very much at all just by itself.
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I've always been a button pusher, I learned the G1000 by plugging the plane in, powering it up and playing around the the panel with the book in my lap.
 
James331 said:
I've always been a button pusher, I learned the G1000 by plugging the plane in, powering it up and playing around the the panel with the book in my lap.
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Yeah, it takes longer to get the fine details that way. That method of learning contains a lot of "WTF is it doing?" moments as one learns the little operating details where you missed a double button push along the way that wasn't obvious, so for some reason it's not doing what you expected. The 750 is the first interface that allows you to learn it efficiently by 'jumping in the plane and pushing buttons' because the way it is designed to interface with you is much more efficient and effective, and the processes much better organized.
 
James331 said:
I've always been a button pusher, I learned the G1000 by plugging the plane in, powering it up and playing around the the panel with the book in my lap.
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I've had folks like that with systems like that. Usually only takes a bit longer to figure out all their misconceptions and fix them than it would have to train them right originally.
 
Still flying the 480, it's still superior to anything else Garmin puts out there in the non-flightdeck stuff.
 
Interesting to hear all of this. I've been giving it consideration seeing as what the units are going for (when they go) and coupling it with a Garmin MX-20. not what I originally had in mind for my panel layout, but I do have the real estate there. Guess I'll just keep my eye open. Just so I understand though, not programmed for ADS-B Out yet, right? Has there been a confirmation that it is coming?
 
Garmin has promised it. If you join the 480 Yahoo discussion group there are tons of folks there who could give you advice.

You may want to consider a GMX200 instead of the MX20
 
Do *NOT* put an MX20 in today. They are no longer supportable (Garmin will not do exchange repairs, etc....). The GMX200 is supported but getting a bit long in the tooth.
Still I do like my MX20, but it's days are numbered.
 
Yeah, I was actually just reading about the MX20 in another thread. That doesn't sound like a good option these days. Thanks for the heads up.
 
I flew with the MX20 for a couple years. Great for it's day, but SLOW refresh rates got to be frustrating.
 
I have one, but it's getting long in the tooth. It is after all just a glorified PC, still running NT4.
 
Ron Levy said:
The Garmin downloadable simulator is a simulator, but that's all it is -- it's not a trainer. As such, it's great for an instructor who knows the 480 well to use as a training aid, but it's not going to teach someone very much at all just by itself.
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I'll re-affirm this.

When Ron worked with me as my CFII, we had the 480 sim on the laptop. I learned a few things, but the largest part of my knowledge expansion was using the real thing on the ground and in flight as we cruised between airports.

Over a 430 unit, I'd select the 480 and it might also slightly edge out the 530. This is due to the features and the utility once you gain a solid understanding of features and how to use them while flying.

Yes, it's still a relevant bit of avionics. If I was to ever purchase an aircraft that didn't have a GPS/Com, and the GTN's weren't in the budget, then I would be looking for a good used 480 and have that installed.
 
The screen on the 480 is larger and higher-res than the 430 also....
 
Love my 480. Has more capability than I'll ever need. Done countless LPVs with it without a glitch. Not really concerned about the ADS-B out software upgrade. If it doesn't happen I'm looking at Freeflight with an iPad anyway.
 

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Henning said:
I believe they are still fully relevant boxes, personally I always preferred the 480 architecture to the 430. I consider the 480 more relevant than the 430, but would probably spring for the 750 because finally it is a box worth spending the money on. Both the 480 and the 430 annoy me in their interface, the 480 not so much so. The 750 got it right.
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Does your praise of the 750 equally apply to the 650 ? (With exception of panel size, obviously...)
 
BillyBH said:
Does your praise of the 750 equally apply to the 650 ? (With exception of panel size, obviously...)
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Yes, the architecture is the same, although the menu is a bit different in features due to limited size on the 650. Touch screen is all about screen real estate, especially when working with clearance amendments and rubber banding. However, the blue tooth link does a lot to make that a moot point. The other issue is I'm not sure you can use the remote audio panel and transponder with just a 650, but again, not sure, and it wouldn't necessarily matter.
 
I'm continuing to fly behind my 480 without issue. Eventually I'll switch but given the crock coming out of Olathe and their abhorrant AOG policies, it probably will not be replaced with more Garmin.
 
Henning said:
Yes, the architecture is the same, although the menu is a bit different in features due to limited size on the 650. Touch screen is all about screen real estate, especially when working with clearance amendments and rubber banding. However, the blue tooth link does a lot to make that a moot point. The other issue is I'm not sure you can use the remote audio panel and transponder with just a 650, but again, not sure, and it wouldn't necessarily matter.
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No remote audio panel on the 650 but you can have a remote mounted transponder. My only concern about the the remote audio panel and transponder is if the gtn goes dark for what ever reason, then I dont have a transponder or a way to switch to another radio. Maybe Garmin figured something out for situations like that.
 
flyingron said:
I'm continuing to fly behind my 480 without issue. Eventually I'll switch but given the crock coming out of Olathe and their abhorrant AOG policies, it probably will not be replaced with more Garmin.
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Thats one of the reasons I went with PS Engineering for my audio panel. Much better support. Heck, their CEO posts on here occasionally. When I was going through my avionics upgrade back in 13, Avidyne was still trying to get their GPS nav/com to market so my only good option was the gtn line.
 
BGF_Yankee said:
Looking around today at what's available and was wondering if people still consider these units when looking for a used IFR capable GPS. I have a little experience with one and I know they aren't the same as using a 430/530, but would you do it?
Click to expand...

It IS an FMS (..In fact its one of the ONLY stand alone FMS ever made (see
TSO-C146a) and one of the best units you can put in the panel. They were developed on contract for UPS DC-8 fleet by Apollo and (Rockwell Collins).
I had one along with an MX-20 put in a bonanza I used to fly and its always been my favorite package. They are incredivly undervalued units...way ahead of thier time.
 
Ron Levy said:
The Garmin downloadable simulator is a simulator, but that's all it is -- it's not a trainer. As such, it's great for an instructor who knows the 480 well to use as a training aid, but it's not going to teach someone very much at all just by itself.
Click to expand...

It helped me get familiar enough with the buttonology in a short period of time to fly a practice GPS approach a few days ago, although I also consulted the quick reference guide.
 
My criticism of the 480 is that it seems to require a lot more button pushing than the 430, and I find the screen harder to read. I can see how being able to enter Victor airways could be a great time saver in some situations, though.
 
Does anyone out there have a GNS480/CNX80 in their panel with a MX20 or GMX200 paired to it? If so, do you have pictures? Would just like to see what kind of panel real estate we are talking about.
 
BGF_Yankee said:
Does anyone out there have a GNS480/CNX80 in their panel with a MX20 or GMX200 paired to it? If so, do you have pictures? Would just like to see what kind of panel real estate we are talking about.
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I flew that stack, but don't have a picture, it, with an SL -30, audio panel, and Txp took up the whole center stack of a 182.
 
Henning said:
I flew that stack, but don't have a picture, it, with an SL -30, audio panel, and Txp took up the whole center stack of a 182.
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I figured it did. My Lance has plenty of panel real estate, but my initial thought was to try and get back to a single stack and then panel mount my 696 in an Airgizmos dock. I think with this type of combo, I'd be easily at two columns worth and unable to still do that. It might be the more user friendly option since they'd be linked though, so...

Just trying to explore several options.

I've downloaded the GNS480/CNX80 emulator from Garmin's website and have been playing with it. I do have a lot of time on the 430/530 product, but this still seems fairly intuitive, although I haven't tried to do anything too complex with it yet.
 
BGF_Yankee said:
I figured it did. My Lance has plenty of panel real estate, but my initial thought was to try and get back to a single stack and then panel mount my 696 in an Airgizmos dock. I think with this type of combo, I'd be easily at two columns worth and unable to still do that. It might be the more user friendly option since they'd be linked though, so...

Just trying to explore several options.

I've downloaded the GNS480/CNX80 emulator from Garmin's website and have been playing with it. I do have a lot of time on the 430/530 product, but this still seems fairly intuitive, although I haven't tried to do anything too complex with it yet.
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That was always my issue between the 430 and 480. Yes, the 480 is a bit more complex, but much more intuitive in "buttonology".
 
Henning said:
That was always my issue between the 430 and 480. Yes, the 480 is a bit more complex, but much more intuitive in "buttonology".
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When I worked for CAE I got fairly familiar with the FMS in the CRJ family of aircraft, so I enjoy the "smart buttons". I could get used to this easily I think. My biggest hangup is the ADS-B issue. If I knew for certain the update/upgrade was coming to make it work, it'd be a no brainer for me.
 
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