Gift for CFI?

i treat my CFI well, got him many cold beers and lunch/dinners, he never pay any meals on our cross country flights, or the ones after a long day at the airport, plus i pay a block of 60 hrs and finish my licence way before that, never ask for refund or airplane rental time, by that time i was flying my own plane, we become pretty good friends, and he is always there wen i need him, in the other hand i don't tip line man at the fbo, they come and go to often to have any kind of relationship with the plane and couple kids broke stuff on plane, my FBO is super respectful on tenants property and would fix anything they do right away no questions ask.
 
rbridges said:
not to derail the thread or get too personal, but what are CFIs charging on average? I paid 45/hr for my instrument training. I can't remember but I paid at least 35 for PPL 4 years ago.
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West coast and most places I've been $50hr is average.

Concorde said:
Most CFIs around here don't even make $400/week . Just not many people interested in flying anymore .
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Not sure about that! We get a good turnout for our little school.
 
Years ago, when I was an instructor, I never got a tip. I did have students hand my business card to prospective new students. I was happy with that.
 
LJS1993 said:
Would a big hug be okay too guys?
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I've gotten big hugs from trainees after their checkride -- both guys and gals. That's not how it was when I was learning a few decades ago, but it's the 21st century, I guess. Like the Bellamy Brothers said, "I ain't tryin' to change nobody, I'm just tryin' real hard to adjust." :dunno:
 
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My CFII was a former AA MD-80 Captain, but quit to be a stay-at-home dad. (His wife is a physician.) He instructed simply for the love of it.

After I passed my IR check ride, I had my CFII and his wife over for dinner, and gave him a $100 gift certificate for dinner (since much of our flying was at night, he missed dinner with the family often), and a copy of One Six Right. That was very well received.
 
NineThreeKilo said:
I charge $50hr because I'm worth every damn cent, my students tend to agree, how much I make a year is irrelevant, the service I provide to the amount I charge is what matters and my customers aint complaining.
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Do you live in California
 
I live all up and down the west coast at this time.

50 bucks is about average in WA, OR, CA, heck even when I was in GA 50 was about common.
 
I had just one CFI for all my PP training, he wasn't freelance and worked full time for the flight school, their cost to me for his services was $60hr. Never asked what his cut was but I'm sure it wasn't anything close to the $60.

Anyway's he did a fine job for me, as a mature student (63 at the time) I needed quite a bit of coaching as the old brain doesn't compute and store stuff quite as quickly as it used too.

His "official" teaching time was done by the Hobbs or time recorded in the office on ground school duties. However he gave me his cell phone number and said if I was busy doing any home study and stuck on anything evenings or weekend whenever, I was to call him and he would talk me through the problem. So I figured he more than deserved a good tip once I had successfully done my check ride.

During a chat one day I happened to mention I was reading "Stick & Rudder" he said strangely enough in 10 yrs of flying he had never read the book but would do one day..

So there it was my thank you present for him, I got him a copy and signed a thank you message inside the cover...with an additional line saying "enjoy reading the book"...
and on different inside pages I placed 3 x $100 bills....

I knew he had started to read the book as within a couple of days of receiving it he called me to thank me for his much appreciated "Gifts"...
 
It's $58/$68 for regular instructors/chief instructor at the school I received my instrument rating. Never bothered me too much because I know it's not a 40hr a week job and they're not too strict about charging for every minute you're there. Yeah it's a higher hourly rate than I make, but if there's a snowy week I might sit at home getting paid for days at a time. My instructor will have to sit at home getting nothing. I have no idea if there are any benefits, either. I've never met what I would call an overpaid CFI.

If the product is too expensive shop around or don't buy it. I hate the attitude that somebody who makes a little money is overpaid just because you look down on their job, or because you think they're building experience and don't deserve to be comfortable doing so.
 
Well, it's common for me to schedule 2 hrs with a person in order to log one. I charge 35.00/hr. for Hobbes time and I charge a travel/mileage fee which is split between the students accordingly. I drive 150 miles round trip to the place where I teach... Saves them time etc. I often spend the night.

If one of my students wanted to give me a gift, besides treating lunch perhaps I would like a gift certificate for an hour massage! :yes:

I have paid 50.00/hr. for instruction and was glad to do so as the CFI was really good. He has been a DPE since 1971, flew in the military and for the airlines... He instructed me in his old but sweet citabria. We are now good friends and I send my students to him.

The liability we assume is real and I don't think that 50.00/hr. is unreasonable for some types of instruction. And have often thought its for primary training we should charge more since by the IFR or Comm rating the pilot already knows how to fly and may be less likely to kill you.
 
I also don't understand wanting to pay less because the CFI is looking to use this as a stepping stone.

Doctors, lawyers, musicians, actors, senators, pretty much everyone does this, most start off lower then their career pinicle and move up, but I have yet to hear some knuckle dragging idiot say to a lawyer, "why should I pay you this much when your just using this job to build experience to make partner?"

Dumb logic if you ask me
 
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SkyHog said:
...various posts in this thread...
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I'm not sure if you're intentionally trying to troll people or you're just clueless, but the things you've said in this thread are so far from reasonable that I see no third option. I think you should go earn your CFI (assuming you haven't already) and then try to earn a living with it by charging $30/hr (something you clearly have not done).


When I completed my PP, my gratuity was to take my CFI and his wife out for a nice dinner (along with my wife). I would have just given him a dinner gift certificate instead of imposing the social requirements on him, but I had given him a dinner gift vert for the previous holidays and wanted to do something at least a little different.
 
My CFI (younger than my eldest son) has given me a gift I can never repay - I learned how to fly a friggin' airplane! He got me to my check ride in 6 months. He works for a school, so like others who have posted here, I know what I paid the school, but I have no idea what his cut was. He always returned calls, always was willing to adjust his schedule to meet my weird work schedule, encouraged me when I got frustrated :mad2:, was extraordinarily patient with me... not to mention he is incredibly talented. On top of all that, he give ME a gift when I passed my check ride. (I was his first PPL endorsement sent off to face the DPE.) Of course I tipped him. A Visa gift card to buy the aviation gizmo of his choice, and a brew house gift card :cheers:. I tried to be generous, though I'm not sure any amount would have been enough. I will also happily refer others to him. And when I get around to needing a complex or high performance endorsement, I will seek him out. If I had a CFI that just did his/her job, maybe I wouldn't have tipped, but maybe I wouldn't have finished either.
 
NineThreeKilo said:
I also don't understand wanting to pay less because the CFI is looking to use this as a stepping stone.

Doctors, lawyers, musicians, actors, senators, pretty much everyone does this, most start off lower then their career pinicle and move up, but I have yet to hear some knuckle dragging idiot say to a lawyer, "why should I pay you this much when your just using this job to build experience to make partner?"
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Actually, a lot of actors actor for free or a non-livable wage during the beginning of their career, at least in theatre. It's doing what is a non-traditional career and what you love is now an excuse to not pay people good wages.

Nick, do you also think the regional FO is overpaid at $23 an hour and only paid when the doors are closed and probably only makes their guarantee of 75 hours a month even though they're only home 9 days out of the month?
 
swansonrj said:
My CFI (younger than my eldest son) has given me a gift I can never repay - I learned how to fly a friggin' airplane! He got me to my check ride in 6 months. He works for a school, so like others who have posted here, I know what I paid the school, but I have no idea what his cut was. He always returned calls, always was willing to adjust his schedule to meet my weird work schedule, encouraged me when I got frustrated :mad2:, was extraordinarily patient with me... not to mention he is incredibly talented. On top of all that, he give ME a gift when I passed my check ride. (I was his first PPL endorsement sent off to face the DPE.) Of course I tipped him. A Visa gift card to buy the aviation gizmo of his choice, and a brew house gift card :cheers:. I tried to be generous, though I'm not sure any amount would have been enough. I will also happily refer others to him. And when I get around to needing a complex or high performance endorsement, I will seek him out. If I had a CFI that just did his/her job, maybe I wouldn't have tipped, but maybe I wouldn't have finished either.
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What a sweet story! And it is an amazing gift we have, to be able to fly. So few people have it, and we should be grateful to those who helped get us there. To some, of course, we owe more gratitude than others. As in any other profession, there are good CFIs, and there are some bad ones. I have the utmost respect and admiration for the good ones. I can't imagine doing what you do, day in and day out.
 
For clarifications sake - I am a pilot, I do have my PPL, but I do not have my CFI. The problem is that by adding the word "Airplane" to anything, the cost immediately doubles or triples, which I think is flat out inappropriate, especially when considering that the task set associated with a CFI is only slightly more complex than that of a math tutor, and only more complex because a math tutor doesn't need to show you how to hold the pencil.

Also - the argument of "CFIs need to make a living," is a non-starter. I can't go to my boss and demand a raise on a 6 figure salary because "Its not enough to live on," so why would a CFI get to make a similar argument on a livable wage that far exceeds minimum wage?

Airplanes, being much less complex than cars, should cost less. CFIs, being much less complex than music instructors, should charge less.

But hey - if you want to reinforce in your head that you're worth every penny you make as a CFI (and much, much more because you're "under" paid), then go right ahead - hell, you should make as much as a CEO, because CEOs won't die if their employees make a mistake right?

:rolleyes:
 
Aviatrix said:
Actually, a lot of actors actor for free or a non-livable wage during the beginning of their career, at least in theatre. It's doing what is a non-traditional career and what you love is now an excuse to not pay people good wages.
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Exactly. And they don't get to argue that they're underpaid and have people grovel at their feet for it either.

Nick, do you also think the regional FO is overpaid at $23 an hour and only paid when the doors are closed and probably only makes their guarantee of 75 hours a month even though they're only home 9 days out of the month?
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Maybe. What does a bus driver get paid?
 
SkyHog said:
For clarifications sake - I am a pilot, I do have my PPL, but I do not have my CFI. The problem is that by adding the word "Airplane" to anything, the cost immediately doubles or triples, which I think is flat out inappropriate, especially when considering that the task set associated with a CFI is only slightly more complex than that of a math tutor, and only more complex because a math tutor doesn't need to show you how to hold the pencil.

Also - the argument of "CFIs need to make a living," is a non-starter. I can't go to my boss and demand a raise on a 6 figure salary because "Its not enough to live on," so why would a CFI get to make a similar argument on a livable wage that far exceeds minimum wage?

Airplanes, being much less complex than cars, should cost less. CFIs, being much less complex than music instructors, should charge less.

But hey - if you want to reinforce in your head that you're worth every penny you make as a CFI (and much, much more because you're "under" paid), then go right ahead - hell, you should make as much as a CEO, because CEOs won't die if their employees make a mistake right?

:rolleyes:
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This is where you don't get it Nick. You say, by far exceeds, minimum wage. If you actually look at the numbers you'll discover that many instructors are damn close to minimum wage.
 
Ron Levy said:
I charge $400/day or $60/hour, plus expenses.
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As someone with your experience level should. I bill 50/hr for ground and flight instruction, which is basically what everyone else in my area charges. I see no reason why I'm worth any less than that.
 
SkyHog said:
For clarifications sake - I am a pilot, I do have my PPL, but I do not have my CFI. The problem is that by adding the word "Airplane" to anything, the cost immediately doubles or triples, which I think is flat out inappropriate, especially when considering that the task set associated with a CFI is only slightly more complex than that of a math tutor, and only more complex because a math tutor doesn't need to show you how to hold the pencil.

Also - the argument of "CFIs need to make a living," is a non-starter. I can't go to my boss and demand a raise on a 6 figure salary because "Its not enough to live on," so why would a CFI get to make a similar argument on a livable wage that far exceeds minimum wage?

Airplanes, being much less complex than cars, should cost less. CFIs, being much less complex than music instructors, should charge less.

But hey - if you want to reinforce in your head that you're worth every penny you make as a CFI (and much, much more because you're "under" paid), then go right ahead - hell, you should make as much as a CEO, because CEOs won't die if their employees make a mistake right?

:rolleyes:
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:rolleyes: wow....I hope I never have to share the same piece of airspace with you given your overall attitude towards all this.
 
jesse said:
This is where you don't get it Nick. You say, by far exceeds, minimum wage. If you actually look at the numbers you'll discover that many instructors are damn close to minimum wage.
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I hadn't gotten around to responding to your earlier post, Jesse, but I disagree that you should be counting "phone sales time" and other prep work toward your hourly rate. You are, in essence, in business for yourself. Many businessmen do not get to count those hours toward their bottom line, and don't bill their customers for the time either.

As an analogy, the teacher that does Drivers Education classes also has to field phone calls from prospective students and parents. He doesn't usually charge for his sales calls either.
 
If you want a REAL analogy, here's the best I can think of - its pretty close:

Real Estate Agents - they work their tails off, and often do it for no pay at all if the sale doesn't complete. If it does, they get 3% (or less) of the sales price of the home. Many times, this means months and months between sales.

When the sale completes, who gets the gift, the real estate agent or the customer? The customer does - because the real estate agent relies on word of mouth marketing as his primary source of new customers.

CFIs are much like that - they do a lot of work without pay (arguably), but in the end, they should be wooing their students back for referrals and follow ups. Expecting a tip on a job that you are paid handsomely for already is silly.
 
SkyHog said:
If you want a REAL analogy, here's the best I can think of - its pretty close:

Real Estate Agents - they work their tails off, and often do it for no pay at all if the sale doesn't complete. If it does, they get 3% (or less) of the sales price of the home. Many times, this means months and months between sales.

When the sale completes, who gets the gift, the real estate agent or the customer? The customer does - because the real estate agent relies on word of mouth marketing as his primary source of new customers.

CFIs are much like that - they do a lot of work without pay (arguably), but in the end, they should be wooing their students back for referrals and follow ups. Expecting a tip on a job that you are paid handsomely for already is silly.
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Nobody has sugested that we expect a tip.
 
I buy my CFII dinner from time to time.. I had to fly off my 50 hrs x/c time, so we did it in conjunction with the instrument training.. filed ifr to everywhere and got a LOT of work in the system in. My ex wife kept getting ****ed about it, and calling it a date (cfii is a female)
 
SkyHog said:
I hadn't gotten around to responding to your earlier post, Jesse, but I disagree that you should be counting "phone sales time" and other prep work toward your hourly rate. You are, in essence, in business for yourself. Many businessmen do not get to count those hours toward their bottom line, and don't bill their customers for the time either.

As an analogy, the teacher that does Drivers Education classes also has to field phone calls from prospective students and parents. He doesn't usually charge for his sales calls either.
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Right Nick but that's the overhead of the business. You're failing to recognize that running a business has overhead and that overhead means you can't bill for every single hour. Hence why your hourly rate is higher then it would be if you could easily bill for 2080 hours per year.

Find me another industry where it takes the same level of money, work, and dedication to be good at (like flight instructing) to where people are billing $30/hr.
 
jesse said:
Right Nick but that's the overhead of the business. You're failing to recognize that running a business has overhead and that overhead means you can't bill for every single hour. Hence why your hourly rate is higher then it would be if you could easily bill for 2080 hours per year.

Find me another industry where it takes the same level of money, work, and dedication to be good at (like flight instructing) to where people are billing $30/hr.
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How about $0/hr. Look up just a bit for Real Estate Agents.

Or how about a CDL Instructor (actually a tougher job due to the fact that you're dealing with much tighter confinements and more precision - think feet vs. tens of feet). Their hourly rate is generally much less, and more importantly, you can get the entire license for less than the CFI's costs alone for a private cost.
 
You mean I wasn't supposed to leave my credit card in LNK with Jesse? Holy crap. LOL.
 
SkyHog said:
How about $0/hr. Look up just a bit for Real Estate Agents.

Or how about a CDL Instructor (actually a tougher job due to the fact that you're dealing with much tighter confinements and more precision - think feet vs. tens of feet). Their hourly rate is generally much less, and more importantly, you can get the entire license for less than the CFI's costs alone for a private cost.
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Does one have to pay thirty thousand dollars out of pocket to be a cdl instructor? I would also wager that a decent cdl instructor brings home 50k per year or more. In order to do that as a full time flight instructor you'd probably have to bill $80/hr or more.

I fail to see what real estate agents have to do with this Nick. They make commission on the sale and the successful ones make piles of money more than any instructor does.

I can't even get someone to pull low voltage cable for the hourly rate that the local flight instructors charge.

An Indian software developer costs more per year than your typical flight instructor by several times.
 
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jesse said:
Does one have to pay thirty thousand dollars out of pocket to be a cdl instructor? I would also wager that a decent cdl instructor brings home 50k per year or more. In order to do that as a full time flight instructor you'd probably have to bill $80/hr or more.

I fail to see what real estate agents have to do with this Nick. They make commission on the sale and the successful ones make piles of money more than any instructor does.

I can't even get someone to pull low voltage cable for the hourly rate that the local flight instructors charge.

An Indian software developer costs more per year than your typical flight instructor by several times.
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Real Estate agents may make $0 on many, many hours worth of labor if a sale does not close.

An Indian software developer also works many more hours per week than a CFI, including commute to work, phone time to prep for work, and a number of other non-billable expenses.
 
You put your life and the life of your friends and family in the hands of your CFI.
If you can't find something nice to show your appreciation to that person the you are just a cheap b--stard. No point trying to justify otherwise.
 
I still haven't figured out if you're a troll or just a idiot (at least when it comes to aviation).

So your relator, yeah, that's a online class that can be done in a few weeks for a few hundred bucks (plus fingerprints and testing fee).

Your math tutor and music teacher, I'm guessing they are not federally licensed with 40+k in education, guessing the Feds dont track the success or lack thereof of their students, guessing if one of their students hits the wrong note the Feds don't investigate?

And one of the few things you appeared to understand, in aviation if you really F' up, well, you die.

As for your bus driver comment lol So that bus driver knows all the systems of his rig to the point of a ATP? He has a medical every 6 months, yearly ride with the Feds, again 40+k education, can operate the bus in zero visibility, logs yearly simulator sessions, learns CRM, etc, etc. Oh yea, also forgot that WHOLE EXTRA DIMENSION he doesn't have to worry about.

So what exactly do you do for a living???
 
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SkyHog said:
Real Estate agents may make $0 on many, many hours worth of labor if a sale does not close.

An Indian software developer also works many more hours per week than a CFI, including commute to work, phone time to prep for work, and a number of other non-billable expenses.
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We are talking about year end salary for a full time job. If you think a full time flight instructor does not work much then you're confused. The ones around here are at the airport 7 days a week flying from sunrise to sunset. Days off don't exist.
 
NineThreeKilo said:
I still haven't figured out if you're a troll or just a idiot (at least when it comes to aviation).

So your relator, yeah, that's a online class that can be done in a few weeks for a few hundred bucks (plus fingerprints and testing fee).

Your math tutor and music teacher, I'm guessing they are not federally licensed with 40+k in education, guessing the Feds dont track the success or lack thereof of their students, guessing if one of their students hits the wrong note the Feds don't investigate?

And one of the few things you appeared to understand, in aviation if you really F' up, well, you die.

As for your bus driver comment lol So that bus driver knows all the systems of his rig to the point of a ATP? He has a medical every 6 months, yearly ride with the Feds, again 40+k education, can operate the bus in zero visibility, logs yearly simulator sessions, learns CRM, etc, etc. Oh yea, also forgot that WHOLE EXTRA DIMENSION he doesn't have to worry about.

So what exactly do you do for a living???
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I drive a bus.

Also, all that "extra stuff" you refer to is paid.
 
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