Getting my A&P...is there any money in it?

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Melissa2983298

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Melissa
Hello,

I'm going to be wrapping up my Mechanical Engineering degree, and have always wanted to work in the Aviation field. There's a college near me that offers courses to get your A&P, so I was thinking of getting it. However, is there really any money in it? What about if you open your own shop? Also, I saw Kevin Carter's book online that says how he made millions, but I haven't purchased it. If anyone on here has read it, does he give good advice and is it worth it if I would open my own mechanic shop one day?

Thanks!
 
For Odin's sake get a job as a mechanical engineer! If you really want to work on airplanes get a job at Boeing, or Cessna or Lockheed Martin.
 
My cousin started work as a Mech E and shortly thereafter bought his first house. Both events occurred shortly after he graduated university. The only funny thing was his degree was in Chem E.
 
Depends on YOU

Many on this board were raised by women and never understood the trades and being a craftsman, I know folks who learned how to weld, started their own shops and clear more than most engineers, and they don't need to work for someone else.

I've seen AP IAs end up with more work then they can handle, bring on another guy, etc.

If you're looking to work for others, you'll get by doing it, if you can find a need and don't need direction from others in your life, sky's the limit.
 
Melissa2983298 said:
Hello,

I'm going to be wrapping up my Mechanical Engineering degree, and have always wanted to work in the Aviation field. There's a college near me that offers courses to get your A&P, so I was thinking of getting it. However, is there really any money in it? What about if you open your own shop? Also, I saw Kevin Carter's book online that says how he made millions, but I haven't purchased it. If anyone on here has read it, does he give good advice and is it worth it if I would open my own mechanic shop one day?

Thanks!
Click to expand...
Investigate the possibility of being a DER
 
If I were you I would start by getting a job as an engineer. If you then have the free time/desire to get your a&p, do it. For most pilots becoming an a&p is done to save labor cost on the maintenance to their personal aircraft. The real money is found by not being just an a&p. If you really want to work in avaition maintenance and make good money, you need to be three things; an engineer, an a&p IA, and a pilot with experience. This way you understand the designer's, maintainer's, and operator's perspectives of your work. So my .02 cents is to start as an engineer, get your a&p if you want, and fly if you desire to do so. This way you will have built yourself into two industries, and then be able to choose the one you enjoy more without losing potential opportunities.
 
My CFI was a CFII, multi commercial and an A&P/IA. He also owned a C-210 and part 135 certificate and flew night cargo, and worked for 40 years for a major airline as a line mech. He pretty much had all the bases covered. He did quite well financially, but he did work his tail off, although he always said it wasn't work, it was fun.
 
I did it at an early age mostly to support my flying hobby and my desire to hang around the airport. Through the years I gained experience and got hired by a big airline. I've managed to to run a nice little A&P/IA side business in General Aviation as well but never came close to being a millionaire.

However, it ain't 1970 anymore. The big airlines haven't hired any mechanics in probably a decade or two, maybe they're ready for another hiring spree but it certainly wouldn't be anything like the last one. As an IA I can say that 80% of my clientele are over 60 and probably 40% over 70 years old so I wouldn't say it's a growing or even long term viable enterprise.

The other thing is the time and effort required just to obtain an A&P license after which it really takes another 4 or 5 years in the field to get truly competent. If I were 20 years old today I doubt I'd take that path but given the passion for flying that I had at that age who knows. It can cause you to make all sorts of not exactly brilliant decisions.
 
Without looking at any wage statistics, I'd guess you could make $50K-$70K as an A&P if (1) you're really good at it, (2) build up a base of loyal customers, and (3) be available 7 days a week.
 
Given your engineering degree, you have to add a considerable opportunity cost to the tuition for getting the A&P.

Getting the A&P tickets is worth it if you are 18 and intend to make a career in aviation. One of my airplane partners is a captain at AA, started out as an A&P and bush-pilot. I know several people who made a career out of it and now own good sized shops that they built from the ground up or bought along the way. It helps if uncle sam pays for your training and gives you a salary through the national guard until the business is sustainable.
 
Melissa2983298 said:
Hello,

I'm going to be wrapping up my Mechanical Engineering degree, and have always wanted to work in the Aviation field. There's a college near me that offers courses to get your A&P, so I was thinking of getting it. However, is there really any money in it? What about if you open your own shop? Also, I saw Kevin Carter's book online that says how he made millions, but I haven't purchased it. If anyone on here has read it, does he give good advice and is it worth it if I would open my own mechanic shop one day?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Once upon a time I was backup copilot for a Lear operation...when one of the regular pilots had a conflict I was put in the right seat because I had a Lear type rating. When maintenance was required, the plane was flown to Boise because there was a Lear-qualified shop over there.

I was replaced in my cushy job by a young man to whom I had given a commercial checkride way back when and who had his A&P. The company sent him to Lear school and the rest is history. No more trips to Boise.

Bottom line: Get the A&P...you never know what the future holds.

Bob Gardner
 
I figure I'd have come out ahead on just my Navion if I'd sent my wife to A&P school rather than graduate school.
 
Melissa2983298 said:
Hello,

I'm going to be wrapping up my Mechanical Engineering degree, and have always wanted to work in the Aviation field. There's a college near me that offers courses to get your A&P, so I was thinking of getting it. However, is there really any money in it? What about if you open your own shop? Also, I saw Kevin Carter's book online that says how he made millions, but I haven't purchased it. If anyone on here has read it, does he give good advice and is it worth it if I would open my own mechanic shop one day?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

If you have the time and desire get the license if you want it. It never expires, and somewhere down the road you may decide to use it for your own work. Just like any other education, a little more doesn't hurt.
 
After 5 yrs as a UH-60 crew chief, A&P and Welding school completion, found one job out of 120 resumes sent in 1993. Started at $12.25/hr. HVAC guy came in working on the shop a/c making $15/hr. Used the GI Bill for HVAC school. and left A&P work in 1997. It was all good experience, but I find my HVAC customers much more friendly and appreciative than pilots/aviation dept mgrs. Volunteer, see what you like best. In addition to HVAC, I keep 9 bee hives(increasing) and grow 2 acres of gardens for our local farmer's market. I built and paid off our house, shop and RV-10 on less than $50K/yr. Do what makes you happy.
 
The question is - why did you go to college to become a ME if you really just wanted to turn wrenches? Being an A&P is another two years of schooling now or an extended apprenticeship. You should have done one of these in the first place!

For now - get a good ME job. Work on your A&P in the evenings and weekends. Maybe find a larger club with an A&P who is willing to take you as an apprentice to maintain club airplanes - rare, but I've seen it work. Or attend a community college, there are dozens out there that do this training.

Be happy with what you do.
 
I did it backwards to you and it has been a good and satisfying life so far. I got a menial job with a local airline my sophomore year of college. Within a couple of months I got transferred over to line maintenance and worked my way through college, picking up my A&P "automatically" (took the written, took the practical, and that was it with three years experience). Graduated and was hired by an aviation company as an electronics engineer. Got to use what I learned at the airlines seeing stupid mistakes by the engineers that designed some of the stuff I worked on and got to avoid those mistakes.

Made my own mistakes so that those that came after me might see how stupid I could be, but that's another story. :mad2:

My advice is to get yourself a job in a fun industry (Boeing, Cessna, and a few others have been mentioned) or a job with the airlines as a maintenance engineer. I don't speak for your FSDO but with the rule of 36 months experience to sit for the A&P exam, any of those jobs should qualify if you get into the right department. Hence, you are "getting" your A&P via the experience rule and being paid handsomely for the privilege.

Just a thought, mindya.

Jim
 
Good mechanical engineers are hard to find. We are always lookng to hire and so are many of our sister operations. You will definitely make more as a ME than working on airplanes.
 
On the other hand, my nephew is getting out of the Navy after 12 years... he was an aviation machinist mate or something to that nature.. He mainly repaired engines etc... From what my brother tells me he is being recruited by all the big names in the industry with some nice comp plans.

If you have the time I would say go for it if it is something you like to do; but like others say, your chosen course of study will probably be more rewarding financially.
 
steingar said:
For Odin's sake get a job as a mechanical engineer! If you really want to work on airplanes get a job at Boeing, or Cessna or Lockheed Martin.
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Good advice

Ryanb said:
Not sure how accurate this is but..

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Aircraft_and_Powerplant_(A&P)_Mechanic/Hourly_Rate

I would definetly prefer being an A&P than an automobile mechanic :lol:
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Keep in mind that might include the Union A&Ps who do work on the big metal for the airlines. I'm guessing they make more than the Cessna wrench.

RotorAndWing said:
If you have the time and desire get the license if you want it. It never expires, and somewhere down the road you may decide to use it for your own work. Just like any other education, a little more doesn't hurt.
Click to expand...

Good advice as well.
 
Yes,

Central location, specialize. publish, and take on as much volume as you can.
 
I'm hoping to get a little time to take the classes. I'll likely use the knowledge to just build an experimental, but it would be fun to know a little more about the innards of whatever I happen to be flying. (More than just riveting parts together.)
 
James331 said:
Depends on YOU

Many on this board were raised by women and never understood the trades and being a craftsman, I know folks who learned how to weld, started their own shops and clear more than most engineers, and they don't need to work for someone else.

I've seen AP IAs end up with more work then they can handle, bring on another guy, etc.

If you're looking to work for others, you'll get by doing it, if you can find a need and don't need direction from others in your life, sky's the limit.
Click to expand...

This!

Go for it! If you really love it. BTW you can also fail at what you don't like to do as well. So you might as well go for what you love. Get good at it and find a state where you are in demand to set up shop.
 
Guys, she didn't ask if it was fun, or useful, or even if it will make her a better pilot. She asked if there was money in it. Sadly, the answer is still no. While there might be a few legacy union A&Ps working at some major wealthy comm carrier, the majority of them plod along at or near the bottom of the wage scale. The bell curve of earnings would be very, very steep on the right(high pay) side of the curve, and slanted rather well on the left side.

For someone just getting out of college and looking for advice, it's appropriate to be realistic.
 
tooweaktofollowdreams.jpg
 
The going rate for several different mechanic shops I've worked with on prebuys here in Az. is $85.00 per hour, plus the markup on parts. Most of the mechanics I know, even the guys working out of the back of their trucks, are extremely busy.
Probably 60% of them own their own plane, must not be to bad of a business as long as you have a good reputation.
 
As a guy living in vail Colorado told me
"It's not a living, it's a lifestyle ..."

Remember, we will all die someday..
 
Mark Kelmar said:
The going rate for several different mechanic shops I've worked with on prebuys here in Az. is $85.00 per hour, plus the markup on parts. Most of the mechanics I know, even the guys working out of the back of their trucks, are extremely busy.
Probably 60% of them own their own plane, must not be to bad of a business as long as you have a good reputation.
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:yeahthat:

Exactly

All the independent guys I've worked with are booked up solid, all of them own their own equipment, have a truck or two, a house, and come to think about it all of them owned a plane, and most importantly seemed like more or less happy folks

YMMV

docmirror said:
Guys, she didn't ask if it was fun, or useful, or even if it will make her a better pilot. She asked if there was money in it. Sadly, the answer is still no. While there might be a few legacy union A&Ps working at some major wealthy comm carrier, the majority of them plod along at or near the bottom of the wage scale. The bell curve of earnings would be very, very steep on the right(high pay) side of the curve, and slanted rather well on the left side.

For someone just getting out of college and looking for advice, it's appropriate to be realistic.
Click to expand...

What if I told you.... you don't HAVE to work for someone else :eek:
 
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I have a suggestion. You have a great degree. Get a job in it for a couple of years. Then see about getting more education. There are jobs in aviation for mechanical engineers. Lots of them.
 
The answer to the 'is there any money in it' question is probably different for an 18 year old fresh out of highschool vs. someone with a ME degree. Will two years in time and lost earnings lead to any better money earning opportunities further on in your career ?
 
Maybe I am the exception but I don't think so. Getting my A&P was the best thing I ever did. I have made good career choices and moved up into jobs, some working on airplanes and some not, but the A&P got me in. I have made quite a good living doing it and run a side business as well. I say go for it. It may help you and it may not. Like others have said.. I got a lot of opportunities because of it. I would say YES there is money in it. Not everywhere, but its there. Be cautious of how you do it, and I wouldn't go in debt to do it either. 2 cents entered
 
You are far better off becoming a famous brain surgeon and paying some other chump to do the grunt work on your jet. That too is a lot of work though.
 
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