Gear up landing in Maryland yesterday

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by sardonux, Nov 21, 2017.

  1. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

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    As far as I can remember about 100% of the times my single engine prop would stop vertically. Can't believe 2 props stopped horizontally. In any case, great skills and very well done.

    Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
     
  2. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I think he was fortunate that both props stopped where they did. That part wasn't due to skill, but everything else looked great.
     
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  3. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

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    Yah I realize stopping the prop is more luck than skill, but kudos to him for staying that calm and landing on the centerline. I am still trying to hold the centerline..... with the props spinning... or may be that's the problem

    Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
     
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  4. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    It's funny how emergencies sometimes enable you to nail it. I think it's the concentration to get back on the ground safely in addition to using the appropriate checklists, use all and everyone's help, and then execute it.
     
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  5. Skyrys62

    Skyrys62 Pattern Altitude

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    He was smooth as silk in all parts involved.

    Had that been me there would have been two sets of skid marks.
     
  6. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Well they didn't follow him to the bathroom, so we'll never know. ;):D
     
  7. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    That's probably a good way to increase your insurance premium. They don't care that you might save the props and engines.

    My insurance company was very clear about that when they insured the twin. Any issues bring it in with the least number of changes to a normal approach, and that includes leaving the engines running if a gear up is necessary. They would rather pay the full value of the hull insurance than deal with injuries or fatalities just cause someone decided to "save the plane". No different than why they want you to pull the chute on a brand new Cirrus, if you have to.

    I don't think it's conclusive this pilot pulled the mixtures to save the engines and props.
     
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  8. Kritchlow

    Kritchlow Final Approach

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    Your insurance policy contains limitations on what you can do in an emergency?
     
  9. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    Thats a pretty typical ill informed response from you.
     
  10. Kritchlow

    Kritchlow Final Approach

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    Huh??

    It's pretty much what you said.
    Not sure what I say here that is so I'll informed, but whatever.
     
  11. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Had he broken the engines, the plane would go for beercans. With only the sheet metal work it's going to fly again. I hope they didn't damage it during retrieval, they used a crane and a dolly.
     
  12. luvflyin

    luvflyin Final Approach

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    Yeah. Makes sense. You may get a big "thank you for saving the engines, now go get someone else to insure you, we ain't rollin the dice on that."
     
  13. Kritchlow

    Kritchlow Final Approach

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    You know, if the guy pulled the mixtures st 50 feet I could possibly see your point. But he didn't. He pulled them at the last second. Really too late for a go around.
     
  14. Tarheelpilot

    Tarheelpilot Pattern Altitude

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    From watching the video it’s not obvious the engine shutdown was intended to save them. That late in the landing he may have been pulling mixture to start the “get the hell out of here” checklist.
     
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  15. Kritchlow

    Kritchlow Final Approach

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    Very possible
     
  16. hindsight2020

    hindsight2020 En-Route

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    The planes are old af, the gear conduits are not expensive but are PITA to procure and replace, bunch of things to get old and weathered and jam up. We also don't know the degree to which it has been maintained. Well maintained? Sure no problem. Most aren't. Everybody is innocent in Shawshank though, so good luck with getting consensus on this front.
     
  17. woodchucker

    woodchucker Line Up and Wait

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    Welp. That was a better landing than I can do with a spinning prop and three wheels ready to absorb whatever punishment is in store for them.
     
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  18. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    Hands in pockets? Must be ex USAF. ;) ;) ;)

    Kidding of course.

    Nicely done.
     
  19. timwinters

    timwinters Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Just like I typically make better landings in strong gusty winds than I do when it's dead calm.

    I've never really understood the concern with pulling the mixture once the runway is assured. The guy had over 4000' of runway in front of him. Except for an idiot in an emergency vehicle pulling onto the runway in front of him (fat chance), what possible reason could he have to go around? Wildlife? Hit the freakin' deer...who cares? In an emergency situation like this I wouldn't go around for a deer if I had both engines running anyway.

    BTW, he almost had it stopped in the first 1000', this guy seemed to know his plane quite well.
     
  20. Rcmutz

    Rcmutz Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Great job! After putting his hands in his pocket he looked back at the plane, And it looked like he was thinking, “glad it’s not mine”!
     
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  21. Hank S

    Hank S En-Route

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    I just about can't land on those rare days that it's dead calm, it seems I'm often too high . . . Full flaps, Idle very early, a little sideslip, and an occasional go around because I just can't get down.
     
  22. Kritchlow

    Kritchlow Final Approach

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    Calm days always seem to be the hardest.... plus, if you screw up you have nothing to blame it on!
     
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  23. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Sorta like more cowbell, more slip!

     
  24. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    I thought it looked more like, “I left my iPad in there... oh well, I’ll get it later. It isn’t on fire.” LOL.
     
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  25. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    Or, “Oh, my car keys are in my flight bag...” LOL
     
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  26. iamtheari

    iamtheari Cleared for Takeoff

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    Bingo. Insurance is an actuarial business, playing the odds just like the house does in Vegas. Most people who own airplanes are relatively high-value people, in the financial sense (high earners, important corporate executives, or just high net worth people). People who can afford to own and operate twin-engine planes push up the odds of being in that category.

    So whether it's one person or six who die in a ball of flames on the runway, that insurance claim is going to be a very big one. Let's say that a perfect gear-up approach has a 90% chance of totaling out the plane and a distracted one has a 10% chance of torching the people in the plane. Play the long game like the insurance company does and you'll always choose the bet that costs you 90% of a twin-engine plane (which is already a small enough number) over the one that costs you 10% of between one and six high-dollar-value lives. Same goes with Cirrus and the parachute. Pull the chute and the insurance company pays 100% of a half million or so, but try to recover from a spin with ice on the wings and it's more like 90% of a millionaire.

    I don't think there's any suggestion here that GRG55's insurance policy restricts his PIC authority in an emergency. But it's just like my insurance agent telling me to hit the deer rather than swerving to avoid it: The advice is, in the general case, good for the goose and for the gander. The insured puts an increase in personal survival chances, even a small increase, over any increase in property survival chances and the insurer gets the benefit of paying relatively cheap property damage claims instead of relatively expensive personal injury and wrongful death claims. Insurance companies really do care whether you live or die, even if it's for the morally wrong reason.
     
  27. iamtheari

    iamtheari Cleared for Takeoff

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    That would explain the hands in the pockets. Mystery solved. He is not actually the coolest guy in the world, he just wanted to check if he had his keys and cell phone.
     
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  28. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I think he was playing pocket pool. :eek2:
     
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  29. Kritchlow

    Kritchlow Final Approach

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    I don't see where pulling the mixtures in the flare is a risk.
    As has been suggested by another poster, just pull the mixtures instead of the throttles. Zero work load increase.

    IMO a go around is not an option that late in the game. Not sure the added power would break the descent, and the plane could end up going around with damaged engines and props.
    If the gear was down he would just do a bounce & go.
     
  30. UngaWunga

    UngaWunga Cleared for Takeoff

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    Too bad about the plane. Thing looked good. Would he have been better off landing on the grass if there was a grass runway there? Landing in the median there probably wouldn't be a good idea, who knows how mucky it is in there or if there's a ditch.
     
  31. Kritchlow

    Kritchlow Final Approach

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    I have always read to opt for the longest, hardest surface available.
     
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  32. iamtheari

    iamtheari Cleared for Takeoff

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    I agree about the mixtures. He probably just chose a different lever to cut power and land than in a normal landing because it was no added risk and was the first step in the SECURE AIRPLANE AFTER GEAR-UP LANDING checklist anyhow. He certainly had plenty of time to think it through while circling and trying to get the gear down. But I was talking about the classic debate about whether to try to get the props to stop horizontally to save them. That's the kind of stunt where you increase risk to life and limb for a negligible decrease in risk to a couple pieces of metal, and insurance companies hate when you do crap like that. They don't even have to splurge on a plane ticket to go check out the damage if you bend a prop.
     
  33. wilkersk

    wilkersk Cleared for Takeoff

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    I'm not an expert. But, I've been told by experts that landing gear up on a paved runway will minimize damage and reduce the chance of cartwheeling/flipping.

    https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media...g-magazine/gear-up-landings--asphalt-or-grass
     
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  34. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    No.

    Ahem... cough. So to speak. ;)
     
  35. Kritchlow

    Kritchlow Final Approach

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    Oh shucks..... I agree anyone that would dicker around trying to get the props horizontal is indeed foolish.
    It happened here by pure luck.
     
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  36. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Your insurance company actually TOLD you that?

    I’ve owned 2 high performance twins and have never been told anything like that.

    Not that I disagree with the logic, but never been told how to fly my airplane by with my brother or underwriter.
     
  37. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    “I should take a picture of this... oh, crap... cell phone is in there in the sidewall pocket...” ;)
     
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  38. Zeldman

    Zeldman Final Approach

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    Bad idea. There is a better chance of hitting uneven ground or a soft spot left by recent rain and flipping the plane. Smooth pavement works better than unknown dirt every time.

    Also do not worry about closing the airport. It might inconvenience some folks but they will get over it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2017
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  39. Norman

    Norman En-Route Gone West

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    I've repaired more than a few that have landed on the runway but none that landed on grass. I've seen a few of the latter, and they were much more of a mess than the others.
     
  40. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser!

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    You obviously don't know the Hollywood volunteer fire department ;-)
     
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