Garmin reduces pricing on handheld GPS and GDL-39

[dnhill]

Does this mean there is a new model coming out soon, or is it a response to tablet inroads in the market?

 

[snoboy]

Does this mean there is a new model coming out soon, or is it a response to tablet inroads in the market?

According to Pacific Coast Avionics YES it does. That's why I took advantage of the savings and ordered a GDL-39. It already has a proven track record working with Pilot.

 

[kyleb]

Garmin would do well to introduce a portable that has built-in ADS-B in.

I think most pilots are put off by the $30-50 subscription fees for XM and are moving towards solutions which offer "free" data.

 

[LDJones]

Tablets had to have a huge impact. Who'd spend $1,200-2,600 for a handheld when for far less they can have a more capable device with a much larger screen? And with unlimited alternative uses beyond aviation! The 496-class of handhelds will only be a memory in a few years.

 

[Jay Honeck]

It's the same phenomenon that has occurred with standalone automotive GPS. Why buy a NUVI, when my cellphone or tablet offers the same (or better) capabilities?

Garmin is in a tough spot. Outside of the certificated market, they may end up being a software company.

 

[wabower]

Do you perceive the tablets and the Garmin products as head-to-head competitors?

Tablets had to have a huge impact. Who'd spend $1,200-2,600 for a handheld when for far less they can have a more capable device with a much larger screen? And with unlimited alternative uses beyond aviation! The 496-class of handhelds will only be a memory in a few years.

 

[Marauder]

Do you perceive the tablets and the Garmin products as head-to-head competitors?

I do. Considering the non aviation usage you can get out of a tablet, why would anyone buy a dedicated device? The strongest attribute the portable GPS have going is the viewable screen advantage in direct sunlight. For the price of 1 GPS portable, I can afford two (or more) tablet devices with the aviation database subscriptions.

 

[wabower]

I just returned from a 2,500 mile trip with both devices aboard. If the 696 was a 10 the iPad 2 with FF was ~2 other than for charts and plates. For openers, I can see the Garmin in all lighting conditions. The buttonology of the 696 is far superior to the pad, and during some relatively intense cloud and rain situations the 696 was relegated to the floor. Maybe someday, but not now.

I do. Considering the non aviation usage you can get out of a tablet, why would anyone buy a dedicated device? The strongest attribute the portable GPS have going is the viewable screen advantage in direct sunlight. For the price of 1 GPS portable, I can afford two (or more) tablet devices with the aviation database subscriptions.

 

[Ghery]

It's the same phenomenon that has occurred with standalone automotive GPS. Why buy a NUVI, when my cellphone or tablet offers the same (or better) capabilities?

Garmin is in a tough spot. Outside of the certificated market, they may end up being a software company.

I just took delivery on a new Ford Escape on Monday. I did NOT buy one with GPS installed. Why? Because I have that functionality on my phone. Why pay some insane amount of money to have one built into the vehicle that will cost me money over and over to update the database when the phone's maps are updated live as they are used? Would it be convenient in the dash? Sure. Worth the extra money? Nope.

Now, when flying 1 of the 4 planes in the club has a 430W. The Arrow has a non-approach certified GPS and the other two planes don't have GPS unless you bring your portable. All will get me from point A to point B just fine. Some with more route flexibility than others.

I agree, however. Garmin is in a tough spot.

 

[N747JB]

Garmin reduces prices or introduces new products everytime I have an airplane in the avionics shop, it usually replaces what I have having installed. So I suspect they are coming out with a NEW GDL 88 ADS-B with XM radio built in that plays on the G500/600 at half the current price.

 

[PW_Plack]

Given the prices of Garmin's stuff, it won't get replaced often. At the rate technology is advancing, that means it will be obsolete for most of its useful life.

On the other hand, I've spent the last year in a job that involved tearing down phones and tablets to see how they're made and what fails. I haven't seen one yet that I'd bet my life on.

 

[N801BH]

Does this mean there is a new model coming out soon, or is it a response to tablet inroads in the market?

Garmin is just " hinting" that they will not support their recently sold products.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I just returned from a 2,500 mile trip with both devices aboard. If the 696 was a 10 the iPad 2 with FF was ~2 other than for charts and plates. For openers, I can see the Garmin in all lighting conditions. The buttonology of the 696 is far superior to the pad, and during some relatively intense cloud and rain situations the 696 was relegated to the floor. Maybe someday, but not now.

That's the first time I've ever heard anyone describe a Garmin as having superior buttonology. I've gotten used to it, but IMO the touchscreen beats the hell out of it, as long as you're using a well-designed app.

 

[LDJones]

Do you perceive the tablets and the Garmin products as head-to-head competitors?

In the handheld market I do. Not so much the panel mounts.

 

[LDJones]

I just returned from a 2,500 mile trip with both devices aboard. If the 696 was a 10 the iPad 2 with FF was ~2 other than for charts and plates. For openers, I can see the Garmin in all lighting conditions. The buttonology of the 696 is far superior to the pad, and during some relatively intense cloud and rain situations the 696 was relegated to the floor. Maybe someday, but not now.

No question the Garmin's have a display brightness advantage. But I think for most the price delta between the 696 and the iPad allows for a bit of slack on the brightness issue. Personally, I've never had an issue with the screen brightness. The better 696 display just isn't worth what was a $2,000 delta (still almost $1,500)

 

[LDJones]

Garmin reduces prices or introduces new products everytime I have an airplane in the avionics shop, it usually replaces what I have having installed. So I suspect they are coming out with a NEW GDL 88 ADS-B with XM radio built in that plays on the G500/600 at half the current price.

On behalf of the group, let me thank you for single-handedly driving the technology forward!

 

[wabower]

iPads with aviation software weren't an option when I bought the 696, so no decision was necessary. In a high work-load environment, however, I'd still pay for the Garmin. Dim touch-screens just don't feed the bulldog.

No question the Garmin's have a display brightness advantage. But I think for most the price delta between the 696 and the iPad allows for a bit of slack on the brightness issue. Personally, I've never had an issue with the screen brightness. The better 696 display just isn't worth what was a $2,000 delta (still almost $1,500)

 

[LDJones]

iPads with aviation software weren't an option when I bought the 696, so no decision was necessary. In a high work-load environment, however, I'd still pay for the Garmin. Dim touch-screens just don't feed the bulldog.

I have no question aviation professionals like yourself can easily justify the improved display brightness and will quickly get the value out of that device. But I think there is a much broader market of casual aviators who can't justify the additional expense, and will happily live with the screen issue on a device that can serve multiple purposes outside the cockpit. I'm still amazed by the number of hours my iPad gets used every day. My Garmin 295 got used about 150 hours a year when I was going cross-country in my old Mooney. My iPad sees that much use in a couple of months or less.

What's the current subscription cost on the 696? I haven't looked at that in awhile.

 

[wabower]

Dunno. I usually update at OSH for $40.

I have no question aviation professionals like yourself can easily justify the improved display brightness and will quickly get the value out of that device. But I think there is a much broader market of casual aviators who can't justify the additional expense, and will happily live with the screen issue on a device that can serve multiple purposes outside the cockpit. I'm still amazed by the number of hours my iPad gets used every day. My Garmin 295 got used about 150 hours a year when I was going cross-country in my old Mooney. My iPad sees that much use in a couple of months or less.

What's the current subscription cost on the 696? I haven't looked at that in awhile.

 

[VanDy]

Something I have yet to see mentioned Battery life. Most all of my flying is in a Taylorcraft with no electric. I still use a Garmin 92 that my grandpa gave me when i passed my check ride. most of the time its in the glove box and spare batteries in the back. Can come in handy sometimes. But the ipad destroys its battery life when using GPS, i don't have a badelf either if that makes a difference. But being able to swap out 4aa batteries and keep going if i need to is pretty nice!

 

[LDJones]

Dunno. I usually update at OSH for $40.

I think that's for the base map, which is otherwise $59, if I recall. A full subscription bundle (the cheapest way to do it) for the 696/796 is $499 per year which includes base maps, obstacles, Jepp approach charts, en route charts (VFR/IFR) and their SafeTaxi. Their "Lite" bundle (which uses NOS charts instead of Jepp) is $299 annually, so about double what the ForeFlight or Garmin Pilot subscription costs.

Again, it's a great device and I think justifiable for professionals, but probably a bit steep for the weekend warrior. That said, because of the enhanced functionality (i.e. Documents feature) of a product like ForeFlight most of the operators shifting from paper to EFBs are going with iPad-based products.

 

[LDJones]

Something I have yet to see mentioned Battery life. Most all of my flying is in a Taylorcraft with no electric. I still use a Garmin 92 that my grandpa gave me when i passed my check ride. most of the time its in the glove box and spare batteries in the back. Can come in handy sometimes. But the ipad destroys its battery life when using GPS, i don't have a badelf either if that makes a difference. But being able to swap out 4aa batteries and keep going if i need to is pretty nice!

My Garmin 295 with the backlight on bright had less useful life than my iPad. For the iPad I also carry a backup battery pack that will more than double the life of the iPad:
http://www.amazon.com/PowerGen-PGMP...8814055&sr=1-2&keywords=powergen+battery+pack

 

[wabower]

I've never cared about the subscription and don't expect any change. The 430W is up-to-date (or almost) at all times so I don't need any more monthly dues.

I think that's for the base map, which is otherwise $59, if I recall. A full subscription bundle (the cheapest way to do it) for the 696/796 is $499 per year which includes base maps, obstacles, Jepp approach charts, en route charts (VFR/IFR) and their SafeTaxi. Their "Lite" bundle (which uses NOS charts instead of Jepp) is $299 annually, so about double what the ForeFlight or Garmin Pilot subscription costs.

Again, it's a great device and I think justifiable for professionals, but probably a bit steep for the weekend warrior. That said, because of the enhanced functionality (i.e. Documents feature) of a product like ForeFlight most of the operators shifting from paper to EFBs are going with iPad-based products.

 

[Piloto]

Why bother with ADS-B WX or XM\WX when I can get all the weather info I need on my Samsung S3 directly from NOAA anywhere in the world. I fly occasionaly to the Caribbean and South America and there is no ADS-B or XM weather over there. Your only reliable source is your cell phone or onboard radar/Stormscope. When you need most weather information is before heading to the airport. And ADS-B will not give you that at your hotel or home. In the US I can get weather consistenly on my cell phone up to about 6k' agl and about 50% of the time at 10k'. Not only I can get weather but I can text my ETA to my party on the ground, try that with ADS-B. I just found that the Navigator Road GPS work as well in flight, I just need to follow the roads to my destination.

José

 

[ryoung99]

Why bother with ADS-B WX or XM\WX when I can get all the weather info I need on my Samsung S3 directly from NOAA anywhere in the world. I fly occasionaly to the Caribbean and South America and there is no ADS-B or XM weather over there. Your only reliable source is your cell phone or onboard radar/Stormscope. When you need most weather information is before heading to the airport. And ADS-B will not give you that at your hotel or home. In the US I can get weather consistenly on my cell phone up to about 6k' agl and about 50% of the time at 10k'. Not only I can get weather but I can text my ETA to my party on the ground, try that with ADS-B. I just found that the Navigator Road GPS work as well in flight, I just need to follow the roads to my destination.

José

I didn't know that one had to make a choice?

Having ADS-B does not change what you can do, it adds to the information that is available to you inflight.

From the research I have done, it will not stop you from texting your brother in law in flight, but it should allow you to fly up to 10k (and beyond) and still get updated weather which by your own admission your cell phone will only do 50% of the time (not horrible odds) but if one would like a more reliable source adding a $699 GDL39 seems like an acceptable option.

By the way, you can also get a weather briefing on the ground by calling 1-800-WXBRIEF, thus one could argue that you do not need your Samsung S3 either, so for the cost of your phone and data plan, you could get free on ground weather and free inflight weather for the low low good friend price of $699. :wink2:

 

[kyleb]

In the US I can get weather consistenly on my cell phone up to about 6k' agl and about 50% of the time at 10k'.
José

Not my experience at all. Yes, you can get low altitude cell coverage over population centers and interstate corridors. But that leaves a lot of area uncovered.

I just purcased an ADS-B in device for <$400. Realistically, it'll only come in handy a few times a year, but I figure I'll get 5-7 years of use out of it, with a corresponding reduction in my in-flight stress level on the days I need it.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

In the US I can get weather consistenly on my cell phone up to about 6k' agl and about 50% of the time at 10k'.

OK, I gotta call BS on that one. You either fly in a very limited area in just the right circumstances, or you're just full of ****... But either way, cell coverage is NOT a reliable way to get in-flight weather info.

Sure, ADS-B doesn't work outside the CONUS yet... Or inside it for a big chunk. But it's the best combination of reliability/coverage and cost for a lot of people. And just because it doesn't work on the few occasions I fly outside the US doesn't mean I don't want it for the many occasions I do fly in the US.

 

[Silvaire]

Sorry but the silliest thing I can think of is an ipad clamped to a yoke and being used for in-flight navigation. The small Garmin x96's can be mounted on the panel with an Airgizmo. For in-flight navigation on an electronic screen it's pointless to display sectional charts. Sectional charts are engineered and designed to be printed on a piece of paper so that every bit of information required is there at all times on a static, non-dynamic (other than putting pencil marks on it) display. Why clutter an electronic display with that nonsense?

There is also no need for a huge screen with an electronic display. Pages can be switched, information called up or dropped off. everything you need to know is right at your fingertips. May not look as fancy-schmansy as a sectional display but it is not lacking in the situational awareness department.

One of these days someone is gonna ditch an airplane and they are going to find the body tangled in a web of connector cords leading to a silly ipad clamped to the pilots control yoke. It's only a matter of time.

 

[wabower]

I didn't believe it either. Almost on the same BS scale as some 6' 17" X biscuit shy of 300 guy saying he can fit in half a Mooney.

OK, I gotta call BS on that one. You either fly in a very limited area in just the right circumstances, or you're just full of ****... But either way, cell coverage is NOT a reliable way to get in-flight weather info.

Sure, ADS-B doesn't work outside the CONUS yet... Or inside it for a big chunk. But it's the best combination of reliability/coverage and cost for a lot of people. And just because it doesn't work on the few occasions I fly outside the US doesn't mean I don't want it for the many occasions I do fly in the US.

 

[LDJones]

Sorry but the silliest thing I can think of is an ipad clamped to a yoke and being used for in-flight navigation. The small Garmin x96's can be mounted on the panel with an Airgizmo. For in-flight navigation on an electronic screen it's pointless to display sectional charts. Sectional charts are engineered and designed to be printed on a piece of paper so that every bit of information required is there at all times on a static, non-dynamic (other than putting pencil marks on it) display. Why clutter an electronic display with that nonsense?

There is also no need for a huge screen with an electronic display. Pages can be switched, information called up or dropped off. everything you need to know is right at your fingertips. May not look as fancy-schmansy as a sectional display but it is not lacking in the situational awareness department.

One of these days someone is gonna ditch an airplane and they are going to find the body tangled in a web of connector cords leading to a silly ipad clamped to the pilots control yoke. It's only a matter of time.

You're right...the full-sized is too big for the yoke. Hence my RAM mount on the side window or, in the Bo, a clamp on center yoke. But other than that your comment only demonstrates you've never flown with one. I think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. Always current, all the time! I can't say that about my 295.

And for 90% of my flights there are no cords required. I can't say that about my 295, either!