Garmin and TEC Routes

Discussion in 'Cleared for the Approach' started by Ventucky Red, May 17, 2017.

  1. Ventucky Red

    Ventucky Red Pre-takeoff checklist

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    How would you go about loading this TEC route into the 430W

    KCMA to KCRQ via VTUN24

    My intial thoughts are GINNA > VNY >PDZ >TANNER > and then let the approach sequence take over as TANNER is an IAF....

    Is there a flaw in my plan? I am new to the 430W as in the past I have been limited to the ILS or VOR approaches...

    Thanks
     
  2. ObrutEnalyks

    ObrutEnalyks Filing Flight Plan

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    VTUN24 is VTU044R GINNA V326 VNY V186 ROBNN V458 OCN
     
  3. TheGolfPilot

    TheGolfPilot Line Up and Wait

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    You are probably going to get vectors to the Ventura VOR or to GINNA. With a 430 I would have the VOR tuned, have ginna vny pdz tanner in the gps, and I would have the map out (foreflight) along with the entire route as ObrutEnalyks wrote it. be ready to find quickly any point along those airways. Thats the problem with the 430, if they start vectoring you for traffic then say "turn right direct, Tifni" you have to scramble to figure it out.
     
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  4. luvflyin

    luvflyin En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Do you have the AUTHORIZATION REQUIRED to do the approaches that start at TANNR?
     
  5. luvflyin

    luvflyin En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Yeah. You can always say just give me a vector to join the airway. There's 20 waypoints along that route. I wouldn't want to plug them all in either. You can always just file /A.
     
  6. labbadabba

    labbadabba Pattern Altitude

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    GINNA VNY ROBNN OCN KCRQ

    I would fly radio nav on the VTU044R and then D-> GINNA. Either that or enter VTU on the 430 and fly in OBS mode on the 044 radial.
     
  7. Ventucky Red

    Ventucky Red Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Nope, and thanks for pointing that out... with the AUTHORIZATION REQUIRED noted at the bottom of the plate is this a requirement for the whole approach?
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2017
  8. Jeff Oslick

    Jeff Oslick En-Route PoA Supporter

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    You can't enter Victor airways in a 430W, so you do this:

    VTU GINNA VNY BAYJY PDZ TANNR ROBNN OCN

    VTUN24 ends at OCN. Load your most likely approach, and when you get close to TANNR you'll likely get vectors on the approach. In the event of lost comm, you go to OCN and start your approach from there (assuming no emergency that would make you want to land faster).

    Whatever you do, DO NOT USE VECTORS-TO-FINAL option on the 430W. Ever. Really. VTF on the the 530/430 ends up wiping out all the intermediate fix names before the FAF, so you will loose all reference when you get vectored outside the FAF.

    You need to practice the difference between going Direct-To a waypoint (Direct - Enter on the keys) and how to load an approach segment. For a segment, select the beginning waypoint of the segment and press Direct-Direct (Direct twice), and it will ask to confirm "Fly Segment X to Y?, then hit enter. After you practice this difference a couple dozen times it will start to get intuitive.

    BAYJY is close to a change-over-point on the airway (I can't quite read the actual COP on my phone). It is pretty congested through there - ATC really wants you on the center of the airway when you're on V186.
     
  9. luvflyin

    luvflyin En-Route PoA Supporter

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    AAGGHHHHH! Noooo! Turning direct ROBNN after VNY would be a huge mistake
     
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  10. MAKG1

    MAKG1 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    You can use VTF in a Garmin when ATC tells you you're getting vectors to final. Never before. It can't be undone short of reloading the approach.
     
  11. labbadabba

    labbadabba Pattern Altitude

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    That's what I get for responding without looking at the low altitude chart...
     
  12. Ventucky Red

    Ventucky Red Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Thanks I have that in Foreflight...

    Yes, this is what I was taught... always go with the furthest IAF when loading and activating the approach.
     
  13. Jeff Oslick

    Jeff Oslick En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Just because you can, doesn't mean you (ever) should. If you want to actually see (on the Garmin) where you are on the approach with respect to fixes between the IAF and FAF, you are much better off selecting an approach starting from an appropriate IAF and setting to intercept the segment where ATC is vectoring you in. There just isn't a good reason to use VTF, except if you really are trying to avoid pushing an extra couple buttons and one knob twist.
     
  14. MAKG1

    MAKG1 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    If you're getting VTF, you will intercept a few miles outside the FAF. That's what it means. The controller will TELL you how far out you are. The VTF function always shows the FAF.

    If you are getting vectors to the localizer (or whatever), that's something else. If you are "expecting" VTF, that's not enough (yet).
     
  15. Jeff Oslick

    Jeff Oslick En-Route PoA Supporter

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    This doesn't help you any when the controller gives you VTF, but then blows you through the intercept turn and decides to route you back to an intermediate fix, or vectors you for unexpected traffic, or disrupts the flow for any reason. Once that happens and you've already pressed VTF, guess what? You get to reload the approach while under a heavy workload.

    Tell me again, what was the advantage of using the VTF feature? (FWIW, I have yet to talk to any CFI-I with a modicum of experience using the 530/430 who does anything but discourage the use of the VTF feature).
     
  16. MAKG1

    MAKG1 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Not a whole lot more than happens when you have to locate and activate the appropriate leg. You have to reload the approach, but all the defaults except for the IAF are correct.

    It doesn't happen much (except in VMC; then you just cancel IFR or take the visual), so replacing it with something somewhat smaller that happens every single time is not at all an obvious gain. You also have additional chances for mistakes; you can activate the wrong leg.

    The few times I've had VTF interrupted (e.g., an inbound LifeFlight at OAK, getting immediate priority for the approach), the first step has ALWAYS been an outbound vector. That's not a bad time to reload.

    Which of these approaches you want to use is a matter of taste. The thing you really can't do is activate VTF early.
     
  17. luvflyin

    luvflyin En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Yeah. Even if they don't blow it, sometimes they will give you direct to a fix along the approach course after initiating vectors to final.
     
  18. comanchepilot

    comanchepilot En-Route

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    Having actually flown this routing before - here is what you are gonna fly -

    vectors - VNY 186 ROBNN - vectors: So enter the elements of the ODP into the departure - actually after TANNR you will likely get a 150 heading - and then vectors the rest of the way =

    Since you will be getting vectors - this is SoCal after all - just load the approach [you're gonna be flying the ILS anyway - unless the GS is down and then you can activate the GPS] and when you get cleared to join the localizer switch off GPS and use the LOC.

    This way, if you happen to be cleared to an intersection on the ILS, you can simply enter the Direct To and then fly it from there -

    You're most like to be cleared outside the FAF at 3500' - you can also make it a heckuva lot easier and simply take the visual approach.
     
  19. John Collins

    John Collins Pattern Altitude

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    The ForeFlight route won't depict the radial, so you have to adjust for that.
     
  20. John Collins

    John Collins Pattern Altitude

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    I would enter the following route into the GNS430W:

    KCMA VTU GINNA VNY PDZ TANNER ROBNN OCN KCRQ

    Then prior to departure, I would activate the leg beginning at VTU and ending at GINNA. This will be the radial that needs to be intercepted.

    If you are unfamiliar with how to activate a leg, have your instructor teach you how to accomplish this.
     
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  21. John Collins

    John Collins Pattern Altitude

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    The TEC routes are designed to be used with aircraft equipped with /A or /U, not /G. You are likely to get a TEC route as a full route clearance regardless of what you file.
     
  22. luvflyin

    luvflyin En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Yeah. More than just likely, you can bank on it. A lot, if not most, of those routes have hardly changed since before GPS was invented.
     
  23. comanchepilot

    comanchepilot En-Route

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    and you routinely have them assigned and are still required to fly them . ..
     
  24. SbestCFII

    SbestCFII Pre-takeoff checklist

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    And if you're getting VTF then you don't need the IFs anyway. Fortunately, if you do and then need the other fixes (don't know why you would on VTF), it takes 5 seconds to reload an approach.