Garmin 430 WAAS upgrades

Discussion in 'Maintenance Bay' started by jlwilson, Dec 7, 2008.

  1. jlwilson

    jlwilson Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Does anyone know if there are still any kind of rebates or specials on WAAS upgrades for the Garmin 430? I know I should have upgraded last year, but I was a new pilot with a new plane and didn't realize the value I was missing:frown3:

    Thanks,

    Joyce
     
  2. wabower

    wabower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    You want white or wheat?

     
  3. poadeleted20

    poadeleted20 Deleted

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    Garmin found itself in a deep hole with the original $1500 upgrade cost when the certification took years longer than planned, and they found they needed to replace circuit boards as well as software. However, they stuck with the original price for those who ordered it before they realized how much it would really cost. I believe they took a considerable financial bath on those $1500 upgrades. The fact that the price doubled after the cutoff date tells us something about that. I would not hold my breath waiting for Garmin to offer any future deals or rebates on 400/500 WAAS upgrades unless/until the GNS 630/730 comes out and they find there's a whole bunch of 430/530 circuit boards and antennas in their warehouse they want to get rid of -- and I haven't seen even the slightest hint of a 630/730 in the works.
     
  4. jlwilson

    jlwilson Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Bummer, that's what I was afraid of. I'm sure with the economy as it is, they're probably not planning anything big at the moment. I guess I'll just have to put a new 530 on my Christmas hint list :smile:.

    Thanks for the information!

    Joyce
     
  5. Lance F

    Lance F Pattern Altitude

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    And I'm wondering if the new software release 3.20 due out this month will be done as warranty or under the $crew the customer plan. For one thing it's supposed to fix the problem that won't show LPV or LNAV/VNAV vertical guidance for airports with 3 character designators (like mine). Who knows what other bugs are in there waiting to be fixed.
     
  6. Steve

    Steve En-Route

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    Lance, this may sound like a dumb question, but do you know if the local shop can install this latest software update or will it require sending it back to Garmin? It would be nice if this was something I could wait on instead of leaving it.

    I've become a familiar face around the avionics shop I use with Aspen unit "fixes" since July. Their first "software" update required the unit to be shipped back to the factory. But it's working great now.

     
  7. gismo

    gismo Touchdown! Greaser!

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    If I had to bet, I'd go with the "free upgrade" option. Typically releases that only increase the "fractional" part of the version (e.g. 3.1 vs 3.2) are mostly bug fixes not feature enhancements and don't get charged for. AFaIK this has been Garmin's policy in the past.
     
  8. mantakos

    mantakos Final Approach

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    As I understand it, a routine garmin software update is just loaded in via flash card. This should be a quick "out-patient" procedure.

    The waas upgrade involved hardware changes, and required shipping back to Garmin.
    -harry
     
  9. gismo

    gismo Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Sounds like a local operation to me. I doubt that the unit will need to go back to Garmin unless there's a need to add internal memory.
     
  10. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    IIRC it's $3000 now instead of $1500, and the installation will run you another $1500 or so (new antennas, wiring, etc.) but it's worth every penny. :yes:
     
  11. poadeleted20

    poadeleted20 Deleted

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    Garmin told me a few days ago that the software update is a "while you wait" procedure.
     
  12. waldo

    waldo Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Ok, Stupid question of the day here: Other than a small increase in accuracy, what does the WASS upgrade do for the 430?
     
  13. gismo

    gismo Touchdown! Greaser!

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    You mean besides giving you:

    "Sole source" navigation (the ability to use GPS without working, tested VORs on the ground and in the airplane.

    The ability to fly LPV approaches which now outnumber ILS approaches and provide pretty much the same minimums and a much more accurate path.

    The use of filed alternates that don't have any approaches you can fly except GPS.
     
  14. SCCutler

    SCCutler Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    Much faster updating and more responsive menus.

    Terrain alerting.
     
  15. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    And a lot more, too...

    * A glideslope to the ground at any airport with a GPS approach - Really handy when your engine starts coughing and the clouds are below minimums. This is true of ANY GPS approach, not just the LPV ones. (The "ILS-to-the-ground" scenario becomes "ILS or GPS to the ground".)

    * If you have it coupled to the autopilot to provide roll steering commands, the 430W can now fly procedure turns and holds for you.

    * Faster processor, so you're not limited to a 1Hz update rate

    EDIT: Almost as soon as I posted this, I remembered another one - Parallel tracking. For example, you can punch in a course, and fly a mile to the right of that course. Handy if you're going to Brazil any time soon. ;)

    And I'm sure between Lance, Spike and I we have not covered it all. Before we did the upgrade, I was somewhat blase about it - Woo woo, LPV approaches, right? After the upgrade when I discovered all of the new capabilities, I was quite impressed, and I think the upgrade was well worth it. :yes:
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2008
  16. jmaynard

    jmaynard Cleared for Takeoff

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    ...and if your autopilot will do GPS vertical navigation, the 430W will drive that, too. The non-WAAS 430 will not.
     
  17. jason

    jason Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    Is it possible to tell the difference between the 430 and the 430W by looking at the faceplate?

    Whilst trolling ads, all are labeled GNS430. The W is a big difference. I don't understand why people don't differentiate in their ads.
     
  18. CT Arrow

    CT Arrow Line Up and Wait

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    Sadly, no. The exterior look is the same. The only way is to power the unit up and note the new welcome / info. page. I would guess that the majority of boxes out there are non-waas. Glad I did the upgrade!
     
  19. jason

    jason Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    Hmm. That sucks. :)

    How much is the upgrade? Ron said $3000, but I believe that is only the Garmin nut, correct? How much to actually install it in, say, a 172?

    How much to get a new one installed if you find the right price?
     
  20. SCCutler

    SCCutler Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    Mine ended up costing about $4,200.00, but that was with the Garmin promo ($1,500.00 instead of $3,000.00).

    "Increasers" include the new coax (many earlier installs had non-compliant coax cable installed), purchase and installation of a remote annunciator (Bonanza radio stack too far to the right for the 430's on-screen annunciation to be considered "in the scan").

    YMMV, but I'd budget something like four grand. Talk to your shop first, to get an idea.
     
  21. gismo

    gismo Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The upgrade comes with a new antenna in most cases and that's the majority of the local work. Depending on access that could take 15 minutes or a few hours at shop rates and AFaIK isn't included in the current upgrade price.
     
  22. kgruber

    kgruber En-Route

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    The antenna is easy. The coax, in most cases has to be changed out. That, is th big local expense.
     
  23. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I don't get that either, but I have seen some people advertising the "W". I think it's fairly safe to assume that if they don't specifically say it's a W, that it isn't. They are, after all, trying to sell their airplane!

    Installation, probably $1500 or so, maybe $2000 unless you have to do something "special" like add the annunciator as Spike mentioned.

    IIRC it'd be about $12K-$14K including the box, OBS, etc...
     
  24. poadeleted20

    poadeleted20 Deleted

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    Of course, phone calls are cheap and emails are free.
     
  25. CT Arrow

    CT Arrow Line Up and Wait

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    Jason, all of the responses are on track! Your best bet is to chat w/ a few of your local Avionic shops and let them see & quote your aircraft. Then you will know how much it's going to hurt $$$$ :yikes:

    But, you will love it! :D
     
  26. jason

    jason Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    First, I need an aircraft. :D

    Basically, in doing what all pilots do (troll barnstormers/aso/controller/etc looking for my airplane) I've noticed that 172s with 430s are expensive and I want WAAS. So, I was just trying to get a handle on what I was looking at. I was thinking I could just find a good deal on one without a 430 and add it.
     
  27. AuntPeggy

    AuntPeggy Final Approach

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    In 2007 it took a month and cost $7,200. That was with the special $1500 upgrade instead of today's $3000 upgrade. Take a look here to see what it entailed. I'd be sure to mention these items to your avionics shop before starting the upgrade. For example, notice he took the time to replace all the screws and wiring. And re-label all my circuit breakers.
    http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13504
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2009
  28. flyersfan31

    flyersfan31 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I think you are absolutely right. They have no incentive to do otherwise.
     
  29. SCCutler

    SCCutler Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    When I got mine done, the amount I cited was just the GPS upgrade portion- I ended up writing a check for, essentially, double that amount, but (like you) I had the opportunity to address a raft of pre-existing issues with old wiring, switches and other elements. You're wise to mention bthem, thoughm, as such things do always arise, don't they?

    Not complaining- this is how you catch the things that could hurt you, before they have the chance to do so (like, say, and antenna connector chafing against a fuel line!).

    If King would ever actually roll out the ephemeral KSN770, the incentive would exist. Until King does, Garmin won't.
     
  30. wabower

    wabower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    We need a couple of 430W's and one 530W if anybody hears of one that needs a home.
     
  31. CT Arrow

    CT Arrow Line Up and Wait

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    Honestly, find the airplane that already has a 430 in it. You will pay pennies on the dollar verse paying full price to stick a 430 in it.

    Worse case, you find the 172 w/ a 430 and you do the WAAS upgrade. Plan on spening another $4000 +/- to get WAAS and Terrain.

    Your mileage may vary :)
     
  32. John Collins

    John Collins Pattern Altitude

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    If you already have a 430 installed in your C172, you can expect 10 to 15 hours of labor to install a new coax cable, replace the antenna, add an annunciator. The cost of the annunciator will be in the $500 to $1000 category. There is about $1200 in margin in the upgrade price which you should be able to negotiate half of that off or $2,400 net to you. You are responsible for shipping expenses back to the factory for the upgrade. Assuming labor is $80 per hour, I would estimate it would run between $3,700 and $4,100. Add shipping and sales tax. Adjust for higher or lower shop install rate.

    If you are installing a new 430W, expect about 30 to 40 hours of labor, plus the 430W, plus the annunciator, plus a CDI. List on the 430W is $10,750, the annunciator about $500, and a CDI about $1700. You can likely get discounts on the hardware equal to the labor cost.
     
  33. ScottM

    ScottM Taxi to Parking

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    I am getting a 430W installed this week. I am being told no annuciator is required for the unit, I already have the correct CDI installed and it is still going to cost me about $10.5k.

    Speaking of that install. I will have a working KLN90b, antenna, and annuciator for sale, if anyone is interested.
     
  34. jason

    jason Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    I believe the annuciator requirement has to do where the unit sits in your field of vision. It will be different in your Cherokee than it would be in a 172.
     
  35. ScottM

    ScottM Taxi to Parking

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    yep
    http://www.g1000book.com/Garmin 430W 530W.htm
     
  36. rpadula

    rpadula En-Route

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    Make friends with all those Cirrus owners who upgrade to the Entegra 9. :smilewinkgrin:
     
  37. poadeleted20

    poadeleted20 Deleted

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    If that's with installation, tax, tags and freight, it sounds like a pretty good price.

    BTW, the Grumman AA-5-series panel meets the criteria for no-annunciator installation in the standard radio stack, but the shop has to measure from the center of the pilot seat, not the AI or yoke, which are offset to the left from seat center. Note that any of those three points may be used as the reference point for that measurement, and you can take the closest.
     
  38. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    We did not need an annunciator for the 430W in the 182, I would bet that a 172 wouldn't require it either.