Garmin 430 training help

[midlifeflyer]

Here's an example I recently saw (the actual approach is probably different, but the concept the same). Since @olasek is based in Oakland, let's do the KOAK ILS or LOC/DME 28R.


Loading vectors to final in the GNS boxes will give you a straight line extending outward from CUVSA but you will not see any of the other fixes. A simple "proceed direct GROVE, maintain 3,400 until established, cleared for the approach." Will have you scrambling to reload the approach so you can get there and meet all the pre-GSI step-down fixes (or flying it like Jerry W ). I saw that one take place for the first time in 2009 when I safety piloted for a friend with G1000. It's pretty much what led the FAA to add the AIM recommendation to not use VTF.

What the GTN series does different is, loading VFT will show all the fixes on the straight line between NAGVY and the runway. That solves a lot of the problem - "Direct GROVE" just means hopping into the flight plan, selecting GROVE and hitting D→. This has led some instructors to forego teaching "load a logical IAF along your route of flight." Problem is, if yo are coming from the southeast, all it takes is ATC deciding, "proceed direct CYMBL" to produce the same scrambling result. Been there. Seen it. And it's a potential issue on any approach with fixes outside the extended FAC - like every approach with a T-configuration).

 

[bill98]

Vectors to final as seen in ForeFlight for the same approach

Vs

Having a standard approach


also: iPad Pro 11 is pretty sweet

 

[aterpster]

Here's an example I recently saw (the actual approach is probably different, but the concept the same). Since @olasek is based in Oakland, let's do the KOAK ILS or LOC/DME 28R.
View attachment 70615 View attachment 70616

Loading vectors to final in the GNS boxes will give you a straight line extending outward from CUVSA but you will not see any of the other fixes. A simple "proceed direct GROVE, maintain 3,400 until established, cleared for the approach." Will have you scrambling to reload the approach so you can get there and meet all the pre-GSI step-down fixes (or flying it like Jerry W ). I saw that one take place for the first time in 2009 when I safety piloted for a friend with G1000. It's pretty much what led the FAA to add the AIM recommendation to not use VTF.

What the GTN series does different is, loading VFT will show all the fixes on the straight line between NAGVY and the runway. That solves a lot of the problem - "Direct GROVE" just means hopping into the flight plan, selecting GROVE and hitting D→. This has led some instructors to forego teaching "load a logical IAF along your route of flight." Problem is, if yo are coming from the southeast, all it takes is ATC deciding, "proceed direct CYMBL" to produce the same scrambling result. Been there. Seen it. And it's a potential issue on any approach with fixes outside the extended FAC - like every approach with a T-configuration).

Why not have the approach selected but not loaded when receiving radar vectors where ATC hasn't specified the vector end-point?

 

[midlifeflyer]

Why not have the approach selected but not loaded when receiving radar vectors where ATC hasn't specified the vector end-point?

In my scenario, ATC says "vectors to the final approach course" but then gives a fix.

You mean leave the PROC screen with the approach chosen but not selecting VTF or any waypoint at all? I'm not even sure it can be done. I haven't tried it in the GNS, but in the GTN, Leaving the PROC screen and returning to the map page and then returning to PROC does not bring me to where I last left off. It starts all over again with "select approach."

Even if it can be done I personally wouldn't. It "feels" incomplete to not at least load the approach and I think it would involve more button pushing at a busy time than loading the approach and doing a simple Direct or VTF or leg intercept at the appropriate time.

 

[PaulS]

I ask, learned that from my instructor. Ask the controller, either ask for VTF or for an IAF, or ask "Am I getting VTF or the IAF today?" Works every time. Also, at least in the Perspective system, VTF eliminates fixes not on the final approach course, but fixes on the final approach course remain along with the step downs.

 

[PilotRPI]

I downloaded the manual from Garmin and read through it. Really not that bad. That with the 430 (non-waas) video from Garmin taught me a whole lot.

 

[aterpster]

Even if it can be done I personally wouldn't. It "feels" incomplete to not at least load the approach and I think it would involve more button pushing at a busy time than loading the approach and doing a simple Direct or VTF or leg intercept at the appropriate time.

My bad. I was using a G-5000 that has an FMS-like selector panel. Using your method I would select the IAF that seems reasonable for my position.

 

[olasek]

And it's a potential issue on any approach with fixes outside the extended FAC - like every approach with a T-configuration).

Correct and this brings me to another question - G1000 (that I use) has no easy way to just change the IAF (keep the loaded approach but just replace the IAF). If you guessed incorrectly and loaded the wrong transition you now have to reload the whole approach (including BARO min), seems like Garmin could have added such option.