GA Landing At Bravo Airport (TG vs. FS vs. FBO)

[TimRF79]

Not sure I understand the "allure" of a Class B airport?
I landed at a Class C (HSV) and that was free and I still got to get the experience on landing where the Big Heavies land (a runway I could land on sideways)...

 

[cmsuav8r]

I went to Washington Dulles, as a PP with about 180ish hours, in 2005. in a Cessna 152. In the middle of the day.
So not "recently", but it was post-9/11, and I had to do a bunch of ADIZ-procedure research beforehand.

I did KMCI(multiple times), KSTL(multiple times), and KMEM during training in the 2005-2008 time frame. I don't recall paying any fees at any of them with purchase of fuel. In fairness, I'm just getting back in after being out since 2009 and recognize that things have probably changed. It was pretty cool being tucked into a line of Fed Ex heavies at Memphis. I would say from my experience that a busy class C and a quiet class B are very similar. I would also agree that every bravo has its own personality.

 

[flyingron]

I have landed at Dulles many times since 9/11. I've also done a "flight of two" with a NORDO wingman a few years back (still after 9/11).

The "allure" is that if it is the most convenient way to go, I'm going to try to go there. Of course, in the case of IAD, I was based there for several years before moving to VKX. IAD was still the closest airport to my house. It was just too darn convenient not to pop in there from time to time.

Most of the other times I go places, like Boston, the class B airport is not anywhere near the most convenient place. OWD gets me to Hull faster than BOS ever could, for example.

 

[deyoung]

Has anybody here landed a GA plane at Denver? Just curious.

I haven't, but I did check into it about a year ago when I was up there. Fees were something like $70 just to land, and I expect anything else would probably be extra. I ended up going to front range instead.

 

[champ driver]

I wish I could amend this entire thread with "recently".

Us newbie pilots learn and hear of so many things. Some by our CFI, other pilots, you tube, etc. One of the classic "bucket list" items for a newer pilot is to actually land at a Bravo airport (yep, count me in that crowd). Some will say: 'Why bother, its a waste of time, money, complex airspace, etc." However I bet if you surveyed newbie pilots and their interest in landing at a Bravo, it would be relatively high. Partly to do it, partly to learn from it.

So a lot of us are hearing "I landed at XXX bravo...". But it seems like many of those stories are from a different time (lets just say pre 9/11 and pre-exorbitant fees). And now the A/FD's are indicating no training flights or that flights need to end at FBO so full stop with taxi backs and even touch and go's seem to be off the table (excepting emergencies of course). So maybe this classic aviation bucket list item of landing at a Bravo just isn't really all the practical as it used to be. And maybe less and less of newer CFI's will even do this given the costs, best time of day, etc.

I'm going to do it, just a bummer its not quite as accessible as it was before.

Hey, if you want to do it and the costs aren't too bad, go for it and have fun.

 

[iamtheari]

I've done Stapleton back in the early eighties.

It’s become much more congested since then, sadly. You wouldn’t even recognize it if you landed there now.

 

[Fearless Tower]

I went to Washington Dulles, as a PP with about 180ish hours, in 2005. in a Cessna 152. In the middle of the day.
So not "recently", but it was post-9/11, and I had to do a bunch of ADIZ-procedure research beforehand.

IIRC they charged me $35 to park overnight (which I did), if I bought fuel (which I did). Seemed like a screamin' deal at the time.
Not to mention the craziest and most thrilling experience of my aviation career at the time, and I'd say it still holds that title!

Aside from a bit of a "dance" to squeeze me in between a Canada jet and a 747, the controllers treated me just like anyone else. They put me on the same runway as everyone else.
From reading others' tales, I'd agree that each Bravo is different, with its own "culture"...

If it's going to be a hundred bucks or two, I'd say don't just to a touch-and-go, find some excuse to park the plane and get the full FBO experience.
For me, parking my 152 next to all the jets, walking in, having the desk person ask me for my name and "the name of the other pilot", and getting to say, "No, it's just me! I'm the little 152", and seeing the stunned look on her face, was priceless.
Like splurging for a Broadway show. Worth doing once.

Remember that the EXITS from the runway are a lot farther spaced than at your typical GA airport, so if you can land near one, so you can exit promptly, it'll make Tower (and the monstrous 747 right behind you) much happier than if you... uhhh... don't.
Also remember all that stuff about wake turbulence!

Dulles is stupid expensive. Almost as bad as BOS.

And neither FBO impresses me.

 

[Fearless Tower]

Fly out to KPHX, they charged $25 at Cutter which turned out to be almost the same as parking a car in the airport parking garage.

PHX is probably one of, if not the cheapest Class B to fly into.

So far, I’ve flown GA into BOS, BWI, IAD, CLT, MIA, PHX and HNL.

Of those, PHX was the easiest and cheapest. It’s always been my preferred airport to fly into when visiting family.

 

[Fearless Tower]

I went to Washington Dulles, as a PP with about 180ish hours, in 2005. in a Cessna 152. In the middle of the day.
So not "recently", but it was post-9/11, and I had to do a bunch of ADIZ-procedure research beforehand.

IIRC they charged me $35 to park overnight (which I did), if I bought fuel (which I did). Seemed like a screamin' deal at the time.
Not to mention the craziest and most thrilling experience of my aviation career at the time, and I'd say it still holds that title!

Things have apparently changed. I got charged over $200 in fees for a Twin and I didn’t stay overnight!

 

[Fearless Tower]

The good news is no TSA security. However anyone you pick up or meet will need to get buzzed through the gate.

The only GA airport I’ve seen passenger security screening is BOS. None of the other class Bs I’ve been to do anything like that.

At Signature BOS, they have an actual baggage X-ray and walk through metal detector. And they charge you $76 for the ‘service’.

The funny part is they only make passengers go through it. So I walked right around it while my wife had to get screened.....and then we all got into the Baron together. What a farce.

 

[aggie06]

I landed at Charlotte a few weeks ago. Ramp fee and overnight fee was waived with a fuel purchase and I think gas was only $6/gallon or so. Treated me like a biz jet in a 182. They even had a fancy “follow me” car right off the runway. That’s a Wilson Air FBO there. In my 3000+ nm trip this summer, Wilson and AvFlight were by far the best FBOs I stopped at.

 

[midwestpa24]

MSP Bravo Landing Prices (via phone call to Signature):

$73.45 : MAC Landing Fee (they asked aircraft type, in this case Cessna 182)
$49.00 : FBO Handling Fee (waived with minimum fuel purchase of 7 gallons)
$5.00 : FBO Infrastructure Fee
$8.08 : FBO 100LL Price per gallon

...so it looks like a trip into MSP would cost a minimum of $127.45 or $135.01 if you went the minimum fuel route. Might as well get 7 gallons of fuel for an extra $8.

The good news is no TSA security. However anyone you pick up or meet will need to get buzzed through the gate.

And....they have the Minnesota Airports Passport Stamp...so it will be the most expensive stamp of them all

That’s what we paid a couple of years ago when I went in there in a piston single. Seems quite excessive even for a Class B, but at least Minneapolis has plenty of other GA options in the metro area. I only went in there because the owner wanted to be picked up there. He was paying, so ok!

I don’t know that MSP has a real heavy time outside of weather related backups. As a hub, it’s traffic seems fairly balanced for most of the day. I did not even factor that in my planning. I was surprised to be assigned to Runway 35. I even requested 30L to land near the FBO, but was told unable. They squeezed me in between a pair of Airbuses on landing, but was not delayed.

The departure was something else. After getting IFR clearance from CD, was told to monitor ground. Ground called us with taxi directions to 30L and monitor Tower. Tower called us and gave us clearance. Happened very rapid fire, with hardly a peep from us on the radio. I hadn’t experienced that anywhere else before.

 

[jordane93]

Flew into ACY today in an SR22. I was there for maybe 15 minutes to pick up pax and didn’t get any services. Bill came out to $104.75

 

[Hank S]

The only GA airport I’ve seen passenger security screening is BOS. None of the other class Bs I’ve been to do anything like that.

At Signature BOS, they have an actual baggage X-ray and walk through metal detector. And they charge you $76 for the ‘service’.

The funny part is they only make passengers go through it. So I walked right around it while my wife had to get screened.....and then we all got into the Baron together. What a farce.

Next time either tell them that she's crew, or walk up to the screener together, take her bags and anything she's carrying that the screeners won't like, and walk around to wait for her. I think Option #2 would be more fun: "here, honey, let me hold your drink and purse, I've already got our bags."

 

[midwestpa24]

The only GA airport I’ve seen passenger security screening is BOS. None of the other class Bs I’ve been to do anything like that.

At Signature BOS, they have an actual baggage X-ray and walk through metal detector. And they charge you $76 for the ‘service’.

The funny part is they only make passengers go through it. So I walked right around it while my wife had to get screened.....and then we all got into the Baron together. What a farce.

Can someone educate me why BOS is screening GA, when there is zero requirement to do so? I would refuse, as there is no regulation that allows for nor requires it. You can legally carry nearly anything you want on a private aircraft.

 

[flyingron]

Dulles is stupid expensive. Almost as bad as BOS.

And neither FBO impresses me.

Not quite that bad. $8 to MWAA and $35 or whatever to the FBO. Back in the day Hawthorne was a well run and friendly FBO that realized the guy who showed up in the Bonanza on Sunday may be the guy who's riding in the back of the G3 on Monday. Treated everybody well. They were early adopters of watching the inbounds on the flight trackers and getting the limos and other waiting people perfectly synchronized for the fastest turn.

They got sold three times and now are as bad as Signature is everywhere.

 

[flyingron]

I was at ROA and they tried to "screen" me to get back out my plane. Not even a class B.

 

[Fearless Tower]

I was at ROA and they tried to "screen" me to get back out my plane. Not even a class B.

Dafuq?

Who tried to ‘screen’ you?

I was just at Signature ROA last week and no one was trying to do anything unusual other than ask what tail # we were going out to before opening the doors.

 

[flyingron]

This was a few years back (I went there doing the cross country on my instrument XC). They wanted far more than just to know the N number I was heading out to. It was silly as we had just walked in from the plane ten minutes earlier.

 

[Hippike]

One of the classic "bucket list" items for a newer pilot is to actually land at a Bravo airport (yep, count me in that crowd).

Yep, me too.
I have my PL but still would not venture to LAX alone. There is a CFI around here who does trips to LAX with students/pilots.
He says they always do full stop/taxi backs in order to avoid the landing fee of approx $90 (plus additional fees at the FBO). So they pay nothing, see nothing of the FBO but at least they get to put LAX in their logbook

OP, go do it, have fun, and report back to us!

 

[GaryV]

I’ve been into HOU in Houston multiple times and different FBO’s for AngleFlight. All the FBO’s waived all the fees. I made stop and taxi backs at HOU several times with no fees. I’ve also been into Wilson at HOU and had fees waived by having them add 7 gallons while I used the courtesy car to pick up parts from a nearby vendor. Use of the courtesy car made the $1 a gallon more that I paid them then I’d pay at my home drone cheap fuel.

I also picked up parts from an FBO at IAH in Houston with no fees charged.

Both of the trips for parts runs were really just excuses to fly into the airports. I could have made either trip faster in the car than it took to go get the plane, make the flight, and then get the plane back in my hanger but any excuse to fly is a good excuse.

 

[KaiGywer]

Now I wonder what the cheapest Bravo Airport to full stop to a FBO price is?
And other than Bravo airports with training, will any other Bravo airports allow touch and go's or full stops with a taxi back?

Last fall I did KPHX in a Cherokee 180. Dropped off the other pilot, got a few gallons of cheap gas (I don't remember how much, but it was reasonable), and then left again and flew to KFFZ. No landing fee or ramp fee charged at Cutter.

But, my top airport in my logbook was last month when I got to log KMIB

 

[Hank S]

But, my top airport in my logbook was last month when I got to log KMIB

I know what you mean! My top airport is PAJN.

I did some approaches into KLSF one evening on a Flight Review, Tower told me I could go as low as I wanted as long as I didn't touch down. The CFI wanted me to stop at 200', but I leveled off crossing the numbers to go missed instead.

 

[Matt Brasher]

Me and a buddy flew into ATL in a Cherokee to see the Delta museum. I believe we paid around $50 in fees. Honestly we were off the ground in less time than you normally spend at PDK. Sure it's the busiest airport in the world, but it's a top-notch operation.

 

[KaiGywer]

I know what you mean! My top airport is PAJN.

I did some approaches into KLSF one evening on a Flight Review, Tower told me I could go as low as I wanted as long as I didn't touch down. The CFI wanted me to stop at 200', but I leveled off crossing the numbers to go missed instead.

Yeah not very often a bunch of civilians get to land (and more importantly, take off again) at an active USAFB.