GA and concealed carry laws

I must be paranoid or a gun nut because I carry a 1911, a 4 inch pocket folding knife and often walk with a cane that has a solid brass knob for a handle. A pound and a half of brass knob makes a pretty fair mass weapon when it's mounted on a 3 foot piece of oak. Maybe that's why I've never felt compelled to draw my pistol.
 
Holy necropost. Though I have to admit it was fun reading one of Henn, I mean CowboyPilot's made up stories again.
 
Necro-wow!

But ironically, still very relevant.
 
Having said that: Are there any laws affecting or any proscriptions against carrying a personal protection firearm in one's aircraft other than the subtle differences between each states concealed carry laws?

Sincerely submitted,

Scott
Back to the question.

Many airports are federal property and all weapons are prohibited. Be careful where you land. I'd not try to carry in the terminals of any airport that is serviced by an airline.

Things have changed a lot in the resent past.
 
Back to the question.

Many airports are federal property and all weapons are prohibited. Be careful where you land. I'd not try to carry in the terminals of any airport that is serviced by an airline.

Things have changed a lot in the resent past.

If you have a CCW permit good in that state, concealed firearms are permitted outside the restricted area.
 
If you have a CCW permit good in that state, concealed firearms are permitted outside the restricted area.

Just be certain where the restricted area is, plus the fact the way the federal law states the whole airport is restricted. Know before you go.
 
I just hide my firearms under the bricks of cocaine in the baggage compartment. You don't want some idiot at the FBO getting all fired up about seeing a gun.
 
I am unable to answer the question of having a firearm in your aircraft, but.. might I give you one bit of advice.

DO NOT.. I repeat, DO NOT have ANY type of handgun on your person, or in your aircraft while in New York State, unless you have a New York State "License to Carry Pistol"!

I don't care what any other state law says, New York State is very clear. If you do NOT have a NYS "License", you legally can NOT even possess a handgun. The bottom line is this..

NO License.. NO Handgun.

End of story!

Dakota Duce

"May All Your Flights Be Of Good Weather!"

In all seriousness, I found this article. I don't know how much weight it carries.

https://www.nraila.org/articles/20150101/guide-to-the-interstate-transportation

Under FOPA, notwithstanding any state or local law, a person is entitled to transport a firearm from any place where he or she may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he or she may lawfully possess and carry it, if the firearm is unloaded and locked out of reach. In vehicles without a trunk, the unloaded firearm must be in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console. Ammunition that is either locked out of reach in the trunk or in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console is also covered.

EDIT--nevermind, I see the post was about concealed carry, not transporting firearms.
 
Just be certain where the restricted area is, plus the fact the way the federal law states the whole airport is restricted. Know before you go.


Yes Dad.


:D
 
Back to the question.

Many airports are federal property and all weapons are prohibited. Be careful where you land. I'd not try to carry in the terminals of any airport that is serviced by an airline.

Things have changed a lot in the resent past.


Which airports are federal property?
 
In all seriousness, I found this article. I don't know how much weight it carries.

https://www.nraila.org/articles/20150101/guide-to-the-interstate-transportation



EDIT--nevermind, I see the post was about concealed carry, not transporting firearms.

There was a fellow in Newark whose connecting flight got canceled they made him pick up his checked handgun which he was later charged with unlawfully possessing. He wasn't pointing it around or anything foolish. Despite being legally able to traverse the bad 2A states you are never truly safe from a gun charge.
 
I dunno. I had lunch with him once. Super nice guy.
I had dinner with him once when he had flown into KBJC to look at some backcountry 4WD RV. I seem to remember he was going to start a flight school somewhere in the midwest but I'm not sure how that went. I think he was flying a new Columbia, or whatever they are called. (Cessna SE low wing)
 
I had dinner with him once when he had flown into KBJC to look at some backcountry 4WD RV. I seem to remember he was going to start a flight school somewhere in the midwest but I'm not sure how that went. I think he was flying a new Columbia, or whatever they are called. (Cessna SE low wing)

Yep. I saw it just after he got it. He also had a 182 I think. He was in NW Ohio, stopped in on my way back from East Coast trip.
 
Many airports are federal property and all weapons are prohibited.

I suppose some are, but I can't think of any that are. Even the few I visit that are mixed use fields (Like COS or MRB*) belong to the local government.

The bigger issue is that you have both federal and 50 states patchwork of rules. For example, carrying a gun (open or concealed) in an air carrier terminal (even on the dirty side of security, is illegal. This includes the smaller places that get a commuter flight or two per day that the FBO and the Terminal are one and the same.

* Goshdarn it, Shouldn't need to insert crap here to keep text from turning into emoticons.
 
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For example, carrying a gun (open or concealed) in an air carrier terminal (even on the dirty side of security, is illegal.


Incorrect.

There was a minor effort at making it so after the doofus wandered around Atlanta-Hartsfield with his AR one day, but there is no Federal law currently on the books that prohibits firearm carry in "the dirty side" of airports, air carrier or no.

The "patchwork" of State law as you mention, is usually the thing that will trip people up. Some airports are considered to be "local government buildings" and then fall into local law regarding sign postings, trespass law if requested to leave, etc.

There's also the stuff that's made to resemble law/authority which has no legal standing in some places, like the aforementioned signage.

The devil is in the details. Take Denver International for an example...

- Transporting: Carrying a cased unloaded firearm into the terminal to check it as baggage in a locked case, 100% legal. Most airlines will also require that ammunition not be locked in the same case as the firearm. See specific airline's rules.

- Non-secured non-TSA areas of the airport are posted as no firearms. These signs carry zero weight of law in Colorado but do serve to confuse the public in general. They also serve to notify legal firearms carriers that the most likely action if one is noticed carrying a firearm is a call to police who will arrive, harass, and ask the property owner or representative what they want someone carrying to do. The answer is of course, "to leave". If one refused to do so, it would be a misdemeanor trespassing charge and of course, an escort off of the property.

- DIA being within the City and County of Denver, also falls within the legal confines of Denver's "Assault" Weapons Ban as well as Denver's ban on open carry, which is blatantly unconstitutional under the State Constitution and a 2003 law passed to preempt local law with State law, but Denver found judges willing to legislate from the bench, and the split 3:3 decision means the answer has never been truly settled. However currently this is interpreted as meaning Denver City and County can keep their bans.

- If one argues that DIA is a "government building", prohibiting carry of a firearm may only be done when all entrances to the building/facility are secured (metal detectors at all entrances) and by State Law such buildings must provide adequate safe gun storage for firearms to be checked in at the security checkpoint. If no security checkpoint to check all entrants is provided, the building may not prohibit firearms carry. (Numerous public facilities break this law and either attempt to post the non-legally binding signage instead, or simply refuse to offer the required safe storage. Various exclusions to the public building laws exist for specific events. DIA is not included in those specific exclusions.)

There's more but as you can see, the local laws just are a mess. And you're guaranteed to be harassed if spotted.
 
When in the air I would just go with 'the law of the sea'. After you land you have to square up with the local laws. Don't put yourself in a bind with diverting either.

If you can't bring your favorite H&K, load up that loyal German Shepherd.
 

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Well, I went to High School a long, long, long time ago - back when they required English classes (look it up). One of the things taught in English class was the meaning of words.
For instance the meaning of the word "concealed".
And integral to "meaning" is context.
So along with keeping it "concealed" the context requires that you not discuss it, declare it, or display it - else it is not really concealed.
So if you understand your English then landing your airplane anywhere is not an issue.
 
Well, I went to High School a long, long, long time ago - back when they required English classes (look it up). One of the things taught in English class was the meaning of words.
For instance the meaning of the word "concealed".
And integral to "meaning" is context.
So along with keeping it "concealed" the context requires that you not discuss it, declare it, or display it - else it is not really concealed.
So if you understand your English then landing your airplane anywhere is not an issue.

Crash your plane in NJ while packing have the gun found while being attended to by medics and tell us how well that works out. Heck just landing it on a highway and becoming a pedestrian with a gun in an unfriendly state can lead to trouble. I get your point in principle but there are extenuating circumstances where you risk a huge heap of legal trouble. Not saying don't carry, just saying it ain't zero risk when passing through hostile states.
 
Crash your plane in NJ while packing have the gun found while being attended to by medics and tell us how well that works out. Heck just landing it on a highway and becoming a pedestrian with a gun in an unfriendly state can lead to trouble. I get your point in principle but there are extenuating circumstances where you risk a huge heap of legal trouble. Not saying don't carry, just saying it ain't zero risk when passing through hostile states.

Yes to the above. Just keeping 'concealed' is a great starter plan, but unforeseen contingencies may develop. Then one may have a job or career that even temporary charges may well torpedo.

Maybe we can agree, there are shades of gray in some areas.
 
The devil is in the details. Take Denver International for an example...

- Transporting: Carrying a cased unloaded firearm into the terminal to check it as baggage in a locked case, 100% legal. Most airlines will also require that ammunition not be locked in the same case as the firearm. See specific airline's rules.

Since I've traveled from DIA to Front Sight a few times, I will note that Southwest and Frontier both allow ammunition to be included in the locked, checked bag that contains the firearm. Both have weight restrictions (11 lbs) on the ammo.

One should note a discrepancy between Colorado statutes and Federal definitions of "Unloaded Weapon" here, tho. Colorado defines an unloaded weapon as "empty chamber" and does not address the magazine. Federal law (at least as used by and verbalized by TSA at DIA, defines unloaded as "empty chamber AND magazine removed". We had a protracted high heart rate issue with one of our party in our last trip to Front Sight, who was transporting many handguns (designated mule) :) and to pack things a bit more tidy, inserted empty magazines into each handgun. To his credit, he zip-tied every action open, and took numerous other steps to safe the weapons.

However, TSA ruled that these weapons were not UNLOADED per their rules and high level anxiety ensued for some time until this was resolved.

TSA's own published rules do NOT specifically say Magazine removed. In fact, they don't define UNLOADED WEAPON. They DO define LOADED WEAPON - "As defined by 49 CFR 1540.5 a loaded firearm has a live round of ammunition, or any component thereof, in the chamber or cylinder or in a magazine inserted in the firearm." here http://tinyurl.com/TSAWeapons

Since an empty magazine is not a live round of ammunition or any component thereof" and further delineate the difference with "or in a magazine inserted in the firearm", an empty magazine in the firearm is NOT LOADED. However, my friend lost this argument with the TSA screener, Denver cop, Denver cop supervisor, the TSA supervisor and all the way up to a suit and tie supervisor.

We corrected the situation and made our flight. He received correspondence and a fine a few weeks later, and determined it was not worth the time, effort or expense to fight it with a lawyer.
 
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Incorrect.

No, it is QUITE correct. I was speaking of Virginia laws (pointing out the patchwork of state gun laws).

It is ILLEGAL under 18-2.287.01:

It shall be unlawful for any person to possess or transport into any air carrier airport terminal in the Commonwealth any (i) gun or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile or projectile of any kind, (ii) frame, receiver, muffler, silencer, missile, projectile or ammunition designed for use with a dangerous weapon, and (iii) any other dangerous weapon, including explosives, stun weapons as defined in § 18.2-308.1, and those weapons specified in subsection A of § 18.2-308.​

The "patchwork" of State law as you mention, is usually the thing that will trip people up. Some airports are considered to be "local government buildings" and then fall into local law regarding sign postings, trespass law if requested to leave, etc.
The patchwork is what I was referring to and it neither must be a government building nor posted under Virginia law.
 
Ron - is that statute in effect making it impossible/illegal to check a weapon aboard an aircraft, in compliance with and fully legal per Federal/TSA/airline statutes and policies, on any flight from Virginia? And apparently, any flight landing in VA originating elsewhere?
 
Ron - is that statute in effect making it impossible/illegal to check a weapon aboard an aircraft, in compliance with and fully legal per Federal/TSA/airline statutes and policies, on any flight from Virginia? And apparently, any flight landing in VA originating elsewhere?

No actually, I omitted the rest of the statute for brevity, it exempts that:

nor shall the provisions of this section apply to any passenger of an airline who, to the extent otherwise permitted by law, transports a lawful firearm, weapon, or ammunition into or out of an air carrier airport terminal for the sole purposes, respectively, of (i) presenting such firearm, weapon, or ammunition to U.S. Customs agents in advance of an international flight, in order to comply with federal law, (ii) checking such firearm, weapon, or ammunition with his luggage, or (iii) retrieving such firearm, weapon, or ammunition from the baggage claim area.​

So yes, if I'm catching a flight, I can bring my gun into check. If I'm walking through to my own plane, it's illegal.
 
So yes, if I'm catching a flight, I can bring my gun into check. If I'm walking through to my own plane, it's illegal.


Do you fly out of a lot of air carrier airports where you have to walk through the terminal to get to the non-secured area of the ramp?

Around here most of the mixed carrier/GA airports have a people gate somewhere, even if you have to have someone open it for you or get a code. No need to enter a terminal building for a carrier at all.

Just curious.
 
Do you fly out of a lot of air carrier airports where you have to walk through the terminal to get to the non-secured area of the ramp?
A few. KSHD is one for sure. The FBO is in the same building that is the "terminal". If I need to use any of their services (pay for fuel, weather, etc...), I enter the terminal building.

Not uncommon on these outlying airports around the country.
 
I wandered into the passenger terminal the other day in Hays, KS while looking for the FBO office. Don't ask what I was doing in Hays, KS...
 
I wandered into the passenger terminal the other day in Hays, KS while looking for the FBO office. Don't ask what I was doing in Hays, KS...

What were you doing in Hays, KS? RANS is there ya know...
 
What were you doing in Hays, KS? RANS is there ya know...
Looking for a bicycle?

I like my recumbent exercise bike but these look a little hard to balance.

stratus_xp.jpg


http://www.ransbikes.com/bicycles/stratus-xp.html










Actually looking for... our passenger.
 
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People hiding guns on their person at an airport is likely to be a terrorist and the police need to be advised.
 
People hiding guns on their person at an airport is likely to be a terrorist and the police need to be advised.


ROFLMAO. That's hilarious.

We'll let the Air Marshals know they're "likely to be a terrorist" and the FFDOs too.

Look up "The Best of Red Foreman" for appropriate commentary.
 
Looking for a bicycle?

I like my recumbent exercise bike but these look a little hard to balance.
I actually have a recumbent (it's not a Rans but it has a similar form factor). Balance is not a problem at all. They're easier actually than a regular bike. Lower CG and all that.
 
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