G5 question

[JOhnH]

Can I replace both my Horizontal Indicators, my old HSI and my vacuum pump with a pair of G5's?

The HSI seems a little off and the fuel/oil separator on the vacuum pump is a pain. I can't keep it from greasing the belly of the Bo.

 

[bnt83]

Need more info

What are horizontal indicators?

What autopilot do you have? (if applicable)

FWIW a G5 HSI can only connect to one NAV or GPS or GPS/NAV. They cannot be connected to old analog radios like King

 

[Ryan F.]

I have the same questions as bnt83.

What's a horizontal indicator?

You can add a G5 ADI and HSI to any aircraft on the AML. Will it replace other equipment? That depends on what you'd like to interface to the G5s. Your autopilot and what it can "talk" to is the biggest factor there.

In my case I installed a G5 ADI and I'm hoping to install a G5 HSI sometime over the winter. I have to keep my old vacuum ADI which I placed where the turn coordinator used to be. The TC departed the aircraft unceremoniously to make way for the legacy ADI. I have an Altimatic III (Century) AP which is attitude-based. The G5 has no pickoffs for attitude and the only AP it will drive is a GFC500, so essentially my G5 ADI talks to nothing, really. This means I can't remove my vacuum system, for now.

When I add the HSI, I'll get rid of the vacuum DG. The HSI can be driven by a GTN or GNS series Navigator -- and I happen to have a GTN650, so I'm good. But if you don't have one of those, the HSI won't work. (That said, I have heard, but can't confirm, an IFD440 actually does drive the G5 successfully, but Garmin doesn't advertise it or support that installation.)

Hope this helps.

 

[LDJones]

A friend just did that with his Cherokee 180 and had the vac system completely removed. It was a sweet upgrade.

 

[JOhnH]

I have the same questions as bnt83.

What's a horizontal indicator?

You can add a G5 ADI and HSI to any aircraft on the AML. Will it replace other equipment? That depends on what you'd like to interface to the G5s. Your autopilot and what it can "talk" to is the biggest factor there.

In my case I installed a G5 ADI and I'm hoping to install a G5 HSI sometime over the winter. I have to keep my old vacuum ADI which I placed where the turn coordinator used to be. The TC departed the aircraft unceremoniously to make way for the legacy ADI. I have an Altimatic III (Century) AP which is attitude-based. The G5 has no pickoffs for attitude and the only AP it will drive is a GFC500, so essentially my G5 ADI talks to nothing, really. This means I can't remove my vacuum system, for now.

When I add the HSI, I'll get rid of the vacuum DG. The HSI can be driven by a GTN or GNS series Navigator -- and I happen to have a GTN650, so I'm good. But if you don't have one of those, the HSI won't work. (That said, I have heard, but can't confirm, an IFD440 actually does drive the G5 successfully, but Garmin doesn't advertise it or support that installation.)

Hope this helps.

Sorry, I meant to say Attitude Indicator and I have two of them. For some reason, they are both vacuum types.

I have a GNS530W and a Garmin GNC 255 and an ancient Brittain B-5C Auto Pilot that I think I heard can work with a G5 (with some kind of workaround that I forgot). And I plan to replace the Brittain sometime anyway.

 

[bnt83]

I usually call it an attitude indicator, but every time I do my A&P calls it a Horizontal Indicator. From what I can tell, it has several names, and I have two of them. For some reason, they are both vacuum types.

I have a GNS530W and a Garmin GNC 255 and an ancient Brittain B-5C Auto Pilot that I think I heard can work with a G5 (with some kind of workaround that I forgot). And I plan to replace the Brittain sometime anyway.

Can't remove the vacuum pump without disabling the autopilot.

Don't know where the two attitude indicators are so I can't say. Generally two G5s should only be replacing the primary attitude and the direction gyro.

 

[JOhnH]

Can't remove the vacuum pump without disabling the autopilot.

Don't know where the two attitude indicators are so I can't say. Generally two G5s should only be replacing the primary attitude and the direction gyro.

I think you are right. Even though the G5 might work with the Brittain, the Brittain still needs the vacuum. And if I can only replace one attitude indicator, I will still need the pump anyway.

I was only thinking ahead for a year or two down the road, but I might wait a bit longer, or replace the AP sooner. And I'll still have that vacuum controlled attitude indicator.

 

[bnt83]

I think you are right. Even though the G5 might work with the Brittain, the Brittain still needs the vacuum. And if I can only replace one attitude indicator, I will still need the pump anyway.

I was only thinking ahead for a year or two down the road, but I might wait a bit longer, or replace the AP sooner. And I'll still have that vacuum controlled attitude indicator.

Brittains don't need any attitude indicators. They used a turn coordinator gyro that may be your TC or one that is hidden somewhere (does not have a face)

Typical brittain would be fat dumb happy and with G5s in the primary attitude and direction gyro positions.

 

[Briar Rabbit]

Need more info

What are horizontal indicators?

What autopilot do you have? (if applicable)

FWIW a G5 HSI can only connect to one NAV or GPS or GPS/NAV. They cannot be connected to old analog radios like King

I am an old school pilot and it still seems right to refer to them as an AH and DG - Artificial Horizon and Directional Gyro.

 

[Ryan F.]

I think you are right. Even though the G5 might work with the Brittain, the Brittain still needs the vacuum. And if I can only replace one attitude indicator, I will still need the pump anyway.

I was only thinking ahead for a year or two down the road, but I might wait a bit longer, or replace the AP sooner. And I'll still have that vacuum controlled attitude indicator.

If bnt83 is correct and your autopilot is rate based, you don't need vacuum specifically for your old AP.

The next-question is whether or not the HSI could drive it with nav information (and the add-on question to that is whether you have a modern Navigator, i.e. GNS or GTN from Garmin, capable of driving it). I don't know much about the Brittain series, so I couldn't say if it would or wouldn't. For example, my Altimatic III is attitude-based, so I have to leave the special vacuum-powered ADI designed for that AP in the plane -- but the G5 HSI will work with the autopilot for nav, so I can ditch the DG.

If so, you actually are in the enviable position of being able to dump your entire vacuum system, but the second vacuum-based ADI you referenced would have to go, too. Small price to pay, in my opinion. Two G5s will revert to the other function seamlessly so you'll have good backup from the get-go, and then sort-of-backup from your TC. Vacuum-based instruments are leaving GA panels very rapidly now, and for good reason. They're failure prone, expensive to maintain and offer limited utility and usability compared to their modern solid state counterparts.

 

[bnt83]

If bnt83 is correct and your autopilot is rate based, you don't need vacuum specifically for your old AP.

The next-question is whether or not the HSI could drive it with nav information (and the add-on question to that is whether you have a modern Navigator, i.e. GNS or GTN from Garmin, capable of driving it). I don't know much about the Brittain series, so I couldn't say if it would or wouldn't. For example, my Altimatic III is attitude-based, so I have to leave the special vacuum-powered ADI designed for that AP in the plane -- but the G5 HSI will work with the autopilot for nav, so I can ditch the DG.

Brittain autopilot "servos" are dependent on vacuum. There are no wires involved, just hoses.



The G5 will emulate virtually anything and should work fine with the it.

 

[Raymo]

Can I replace both my Horizontal Indicators, my old HSI and my vacuum pump with a pair of G5's?

The HSI seems a little off and the fuel/oil separator on the vacuum pump is a pain. I can't keep it from greasing the belly of the Bo.

Go to the Documents tab of the Aircraft Spruce website after pulling up the certified versions of the G5. One replaces the primary attitude display while the other replaces the HSI/DG. The associated documents explain what can and cannot be replaced.

 

[JDACO]

I was able to take out my vacuum system and my old CDI. The G5's are awesome. Mine started out with dual 430's and I just upgraded to IFD440's. I did a video series on the upgrade here:

 

[Blatham489]

I’ve got a G5 as HSI and a Brittain B4 autopilot, they work just fine together (as fine as a B4 can work). Supposedly a patch out there somewhere that will even emulate GPSS with the Brittains.

 

[bnt83]

I’ve got a G5 as HSI and a Brittain B4 autopilot, they work just fine together (as fine as a B4 can work). Supposedly a patch out there somewhere that will even emulate GPSS with the Brittains.

I don't know what software version you have but you probably already have GPSS and don't know it.

 

[Blatham489]

Please tell me how to find out, but I doubt it. When tracking either the 650 or 430 it will fly over a waypoint and then turn to intersect the next leg, no anticipating the turn like GPSS.

 

[bnt83]

Please tell me how to find out, but I doubt it. When tracking either the 650 or 430 it will fly over a waypoint and then turn to intersect the next leg, no anticipating the turn like GPSS.

http://static.garmin.com/pumac/190-01112-12_B.pdf

Open link above

then hit the "Ctrl" and "F" keys on your keyboard simultaneously, a search window should pop up

type in "GPSS", hit the "Enter" key, look through the results.

You must have a GAD-29B installed. If your Brittain autopilot will track the G5 heading bug, you have a GAD-29B. If you do not see GPSS toggle in the G5 menus then its probably not configured for it and need that fixed. GPSS uses the exact same wiring interface that the heading bug uses so its all software and configuration.

If you only have a GAD-29 then the G5 system is not interfaced with the Brittain autopilot, no heading bug or GPSS can be used by it.

If applicable, the STC FAA approved Airplane Flight Manual Supplement should be annotated how the G5 was installed in your airplane.

 

[Blatham489]

May be wrong but it doesn’t sound like you’re overly familiar with the Brittain A/P (I’m no expert). First I don’t have the GAD-29 regular or B. The Brittain won’t follow the heading bug, it has its own heading dial. I seem to recall the patch (or piece of equipment) not only adds GPSS but let’s it follow the G5 heading bug. Even without it I’m happy enough with it for now, saving my lunch money for the GFC500 install.

 

[bnt83]

May be wrong but it doesn’t sound like you’re overly familiar with the Brittain A/P (I’m no expert). First I don’t have the GAD-29 regular or B. The Brittain won’t follow the heading bug, it has its own heading dial. I seem to recall the patch (or piece of equipment) not only adds GPSS but let’s it follow the G5 heading bug. Even without it I’m happy enough with it for now, saving my lunch money for the GFC500 install.

Simply put, you don't have it installed to do anything with the autopilot, yours is getting course error from radios other than the G5.

You may not have the same Brittain equipment as I do, I'll be replacing my vacuum powered DG w/heading bug hooked to my Brittain and enjoying a G5 heading bug and GPSS in my airplane. I've already tested the interface with a loaner G5 & GAD29B.

I'll probably go Trutrak if I can't fix the Brittain at some point, if I still have this airplane at that time. I've got about 5 hours in a 182 with the GFC500 with optional pitch trim, pretty slick stuff.