G100UL unleaded avgas approved

I hope this fuel is the real deal, if it is I predict GAMA gets bought out by a bigger oil company. Also, if this fuel really works, as others have mentioned, I think our engines will come out of the dark ages. The ability to use O2 sensors will get rid of the red knob (good riddance) and allow more efficient engines.


My issue is, if I've read the article correctly, their main test has been running one engine for 150 hours. If that is true, the real test will be when we start burning this stuff in our engines. I hope it works as predicted.
 
Dav8or said:
It's all just idle musing. I'll probably sell the plane and quit flying long before any of this is a reality. I've heard all these sorts of "announcements" and promised tech just around the corner before.
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Good point. Besides - it will all be batteries / electric soon anyway. :)
 
The automotive industry will be on to some other energy source before we see batteries become practical in planes. Anybody else read that a lithium battery shortage will dwarf the chip shortage?

Lithium batteries are a stop gap.
 
PaulS said:
I wish that were true, but I don't see that happening in the near future, unless your idea of good is 45 minute legs.
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What - we won’t be all electric in 12 months? Gambling going on here? I’m shocked! (Obtuse reference to the movie “Caaablanca”
 
PaulS said:
My issue is, if I've read the article correctly, their main test has been running one engine for 150 hours. If that is true, the real test will be when we start burning this stuff in our engines. I hope it works as predicted.
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The 150 hours was the detonation test, running at something like 42in of MAP on what is normally N/A engine.
A few public tests that I am away of via net postings, Emory Riddle ran it in their fleet in FL for some period. Multiple media staffers have flow in a SR22 with one tank running 100LL and one with G100UL.

Tim
 
PaulS said:
The ability to use O2 sensors will get rid of the red knob (good riddance) and allow more efficient engines.
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I doubt that the engine manufacturers are going to change their engine design for the benefit of our convenience. There’s enormous risk in doing something new, so why would they take on that risk? A very high likely hood with the potential to bankrupt the company? Sure, that’s an excellent move to make.
 
bflynn said:
I doubt that the engine manufacturers are going to change their engine design for the benefit of our convenience. There’s enormous risk in doing something new, so why would they take on that risk? A very high likely hood with the potential to bankrupt the company? Sure, that’s an excellent move to make.
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Actually the companies are in business to make money. However owners are both cheap and full of talk with little action.

Over the years, both Lycoming and CMI have produced EFII engines,, neither is well accepted in the experimental space.

One of the STCs that got a lot of press and talk for Cirrus, was too bring back the blue knob. However sales sucked, and I have to see one in the field.

Pilots all said how wonderful X is, why doesn't Avidyne or Garmin do it. Yet no pilots willing to pay for it.

It you want a FADEC engine, buy a Diamond. They have had it for twenty years and burn Jet-A. The OpEx most years on these planes is actually about the same as their avgas cousins.

Tim




Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk
 
bflynn said:
I doubt that the engine manufacturers are going to change their engine design for the benefit of our convenience. There’s enormous risk in doing something new, so why would they take on that risk? A very high likely hood with the potential to bankrupt the company? Sure, that’s an excellent move to make.
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It'll happen, better fuel burn, more more horsepower, enhanced safety, better reliability, cheaper to make, easier to maintain. Lots of reasons, and it won't be "our" convenience, it will be for the bottom line.
 
Yes, but they’re going to get the pants sued off of them as soon as their new enhancement is part of an accident. We know a lawsuit will happen because the US tort system is broke. We know that when it happens, someone will be asking a jury for 10x the company assets.

so why would a prudent company do anything with that?
 
bflynn said:
Yes, but they’re going to get the pants sued off of them as soon as their new enhancement is part of an accident. We know a lawsuit will happen because the US tort system is broke. We know that when it happens, someone will be asking a jury for 10x the company assets.

so why would a prudent company do anything with that?
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That is covered in the price. Same reason any company sells anything in aviation.

Tim
 
WDD said:
So, the FAA might add “all Skyhawks” to the AML, so i can buy and use this new fuel in a Skyhawk without having to buy a STC certificate?

Or will every GA airplane in existence need to buy an STC in order to buy this new fuel (which might become the only GA fuel available in a few years)?
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And the rest of us will have to buy a Skyhawk!


Martha, pass me the gun!
 
bflynn said:
Yes, but they’re going to get the pants sued off of them as soon as their new enhancement is part of an accident. We know a lawsuit will happen because the US tort system is broke. We know that when it happens, someone will be asking a jury for 10x the company assets.

so why would a prudent company do anything with that?
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Ever read the first dozen pages of a Garmin pilots guide. They basically say by using their product it's at your own risk. The engine manufacturers will simply do the same. Litigious society = better disclaimers. I can just see it now, something like "use of G100UL hereby indemnifies any and all parties in the event of any anomalous occurrence. By fueling your aircraft with our fuel, it's all on you sucka".
 
A manufacturer could write 1000 pages of disclaimer. That does nothing to alleviate their responsibility.
 
bflynn said:
A manufacturer could write 1000 pages of disclaimer. That does nothing to alleviate their responsibility.
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Actually it does. Ever tried to get out of a gym membership? Those disclaimers are what keeps most gyms in business.
 
A lot of folks here are going to need to buy some pretty sturdy umbrellas to protect them from the proverbial sky falling to the earth.

If G100UL works, what's the downside? Honestly, answer this question. If it doesn't, and we are still burning 100LL, what's the downside?

Many seem to be hellbent on ensuring that GAMI can't do what they promise. But, what if they do? Will you comply? What's the alternative?

Leaded gasoline puts a target on every GA pilot's back...YOU are the problem with all GA airports. (is this true? It doesn't matter...that's the perception and that is all that matters.)

Can we replace leaded gasoline? Science says yes, history says no. I will confidently place my wagers on science; they have a better track record. I wish GAMI all the best, and I sure hope their STC can soon cover a 1974 Cherokee 140..

BLUF (Bottom Line Up Front): Flight schools are packed. Rental planes are constantly booked by students. EAA and Sun-and-Fun just had record breaking years. EAA membership is at al all time high. Airplane sales of every market are through the roof, and prices to match. GA aviation is on the upswing and is growing by the day...It is not going to go away, I don't care what you think about the fuel. This is America. We engineer and fix things. To suggest that we can't fix it is to disregard all the engineering talents we have at our disposal, and that would be wildly wrong. You can choose to stand by and throw out all the negatives you want, or you can choose to offer your talents to fix them. No one can force you to do either. But BLUF...the world is going to advance, with or without you. That choice is yours.
 
aterry1067 said:
Actually it does. Ever tried to get out of a gym membership? Those disclaimers are what keeps most gyms in business.
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I can't sign away the rights of my estate beneficiaries. And I have gotten out of gym memberships, so not sure the point there, either.
 
aterry1067 said:
Actually it does. Ever tried to get out of a gym membership? Those disclaimers are what keeps most gyms in business.
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A contract is not the same thing as liability. A better example would if the gym got out of liability when their machine broke and injured me.

And yes, I have gotten out of gym membership, by delivering a letter to the gym desk IAW the contract rules.
 
PaulS said:
I hope this fuel is the real deal, if it is I predict GAMA gets bought out by a bigger oil company. Also, if this fuel really works, as others have mentioned, I think our engines will come out of the dark ages. The ability to use O2 sensors will get rid of the red knob (good riddance) and allow more efficient engines.


My issue is, if I've read the article correctly, their main test has been running one engine for 150 hours. If that is true, the real test will be when we start burning this stuff in our engines. I hope it works as predicted.
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More likely the patent only would be purchased and by a chemical company providing the compounds.
 
aterry1067 said:
A lot of folks here are going to need to buy some pretty sturdy umbrellas to protect them from the proverbial sky falling to the earth.

If G100UL works, what's the downside? Honestly, answer this question. If it doesn't, and we are still burning 100LL, what's the downside?

Many seem to be hellbent on ensuring that GAMI can't do what they promise. But, what if they do? Will you comply? What's the alternative?

Leaded gasoline puts a target on every GA pilot's back...YOU are the problem with all GA airports. (is this true? It doesn't matter...that's the perception and that is all that matters.)

Can we replace leaded gasoline? Science says yes, history says no. I will confidently place my wagers on science; they have a better track record. I wish GAMI all the best, and I sure hope their STC can soon cover a 1974 Cherokee 140..

BLUF (Bottom Line Up Front): Flight schools are packed. Rental planes are constantly booked by students. EAA and Sun-and-Fun just had record breaking years. EAA membership is at al all time high. Airplane sales of every market are through the roof, and prices to match. GA aviation is on the upswing and is growing by the day...It is not going to go away, I don't care what you think about the fuel. This is America. We engineer and fix things. To suggest that we can't fix it is to disregard all the engineering talents we have at our disposal, and that would be wildly wrong. You can choose to stand by and throw out all the negatives you want, or you can choose to offer your talents to fix them. No one can force you to do either. But BLUF...the world is going to advance, with or without you. That choice is yours.
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Have ever tried the Grammarly app?
www.grammarly.com
 
aterry1067 said:
Actually it does. Ever tried to get out of a gym membership? Those disclaimers are what keeps most gyms in business.
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A gym I belonged to for a year--Bally's, I think--spent many years afterwards trying to lure me back with too-good-to-be-true offers. The bold print was very attractive.

The fine print, way far down in the agreement, said that if I re-upped under those terms I was liable for the monthly membership fee for all those years after I'd stopped being a member.
 
The disclaimer stuff may work a little if the producer is sued on a failure to warn theory. The gasoline producer is putting the gasoline in the stream of commerce, so there are a number of other theories of liability against the producer. If the FAA/EPA mandates the use of the unleaded gas, thus depriving the consumer of a choice of products, that will likely diminish the effectiveness, if any, of the disclaimers.
 
I really don't care what they call the stuff I fill my wings with. If it works, I will use it. G100UL, 100LL, avgas. It's all good, if my engine likes it, I will too!
 
Joe_B1 said:
I really don't care what they call the stuff I fill my wings with. If it works, I will use it. G100UL, 100LL, avgas. It's all good, if my engine likes it, I will too!
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You might care if the STC costs $3000 for 2 placards.
 
Joe_B1 said:
Cost of my fun. 3 AMU is cheap in the world of aviation. What did you spend on ADS-B?
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I know you weren't asking me, but I didn't spend a dime on ADS-B. $0.
 
My point is that if you believe the entire narrative, you spend some money on an STC but if you don't, you won't fly. OK, what do you get for burning the new fuel? If what they say is true, cleaner engines, no plug fouling, increased TBO, less frequent oil changes. We will have to see what this STC costs, what the fuel costs, if the above good stuff is true but you have no choice but to convert. If this happens, 100LL is going away. That's it, no option, put the new stuff in your plane or go home.

So, let's see what this STC ends up costing us. Let's see what the proposed timeframe is for the change over. And go with the flow, you ain't gonna fight it, that's for sure!
 
Half Fast said:
To be fair, there was a lot of labor and test hardware required to create that STC.
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True, say they charged a reasonable fee of $1/HP. I would guess the average over 100,000 active certified planes is 200HP, that’s 20 million! Should pay for all the labor, test hardware with plenty left over.
BTW, our experimental brethren get a free ride along with air boats.
Or just adding patent rights to the cost of the fuel itself, so everyone pays and they pay a little over time as oppose to a large lump sum just for the privilege.
 
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I'm not saying the development costs are similar, but how much do auto-fuel STCs cost?
 
Morgan3820 said:
Been working and supervising the use of a large variety of industrial chemicals for 35 years. Not little beakers in a lab in a hood. You?
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So you have a nice lab and all the equipment you can think of. Where's the challenge in that? Try making stuff in a dirty trailer in the woods with equipment stolen from a high school, and chemicals extracted from over the counter medicines sourced by addicts from drug stores, and then I'll be impressed.
 
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PPC1052 said:
So you have a nice lab and all the equipment you can think of. Where's the challenge in that? Try making stuff in a dirty trailer in the woods with equipment stolen from a high school, and chemicals extracted from over the counter medicines sourced by addicts from drug stores, and then I'll be impressed.
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Yeah, but that's just when you are starting out. Any competent chemist then progresses through increasingly-nice mobile labs, and by Season 5 is working with a very nice pilot-plant scale production facility in a remote compound in the desert.
 
PPC1052 said:
Try making stuff in a dirty trailer in the woods with equipment stolen from a high school, and chemicals extracted from over the counter medicines sourced by addicts from drug stores
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Sounds like a great way to earn some time in a federal prison ... :p

I kid! I kid! :D
 
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