Fun IFR Platform ?????

gsengle said:
Fun for IFR? WAAS GPS, two axis autopilot and roll steering. FIKI for bonus points. Oh and dual electrical systems and AIs. That's fun IFR for me.


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That was my dream after flying IFR in my old Maule for a few years, and now I'm living it. An RV-10 with WAAS, synthetic vision, NEXRAD, 3 EFIS screens, and a 2 axis AP running on a robust electrical system with dual alts, batts, and buses. I can take off, engage the AP and not touch the stick until I break out at 200' looking at the numbers.

Getting where I want, when I want, most of the time, is it's own reward.

Now if I could just add FIKI....


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BigBadLou said:
But he ain't alone! :D

Yes, my instrument training was fun. Lots of fun. Afterall, I was FLYING. Duh!
Flying should always be fun. If it is not, you're doing something wrong.

Now go fly and ENJOY IT, dangit! :)
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Well to each his own but your idea fun and my idea of fun is apparently vastly different.
 
tsts4 said:
Well to each his own but your idea fun and my idea of fun is apparently vastly different.
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Why did you become a pilot then? *scratchhead*
You might be on the wrong webpage, this one is for people who like flying (for our very strange and vastly different reasons).
 
BigBadLou said:
Why did you become a pilot then? *scratchhead*
You might be on the wrong webpage, this one is for people who like flying (for our very strange and vastly different reasons).
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WTF? I love to fly--I even built my own airplane to do so which took dedication far beyond anything we're discussing here. I just didn't think IR traing was fun and don't think that IFR flying, particularly in IMC is all that fun either. YMMV...I do derive satisfaction from it but I wouldn't categorize it as fun. For me IFR is more a means to an end--sorry that ruffles your sensibilities.
 
lolachampcar said:
AcroBoy,
I know. I've de-weeded a couple of Extras I bought with all that IFR stuff in them :) There is something odd about wanting to get all that extra weight to turn a corner.
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You are correct of course. Mine has a 430 and stec 30. If I were concerned that it made that much difference in my rec aerobatics I'd go on a diet!
 
tsts4 said:
WTF? I love to fly--I even built my own airplane to do so which took dedication far beyond anything we're discussing here. I just didn't think IR traing was fun and don't think that IFR flying, particularly in IMC is all that fun either. YMMV...I do derive satisfaction from it but I wouldn't categorize it as fun. For me IFR is more a means to an end--sorry that ruffles your sensibilities.
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I definitely misunderstood your post. Which is not hard on them Ynterwebs without the interaction of human beings face-to-face over beer and such. If that happens (beer face-to-face), I will gladly explain to you how I love flying. I will gladly explain it to anyone, especially over beer. ;) IFR or not, commandeering an airplane is just always fun time for me.
And if you notice my response in the Fighter Pilot Shortage thread, you might get the idea that I don't like flying just a little. Feel absolutely free to call me strange. (insert honest smiley here)
 
Breaking out of the clouds and seeing the runway right where it should be. That's fun, for me.

Getting task-saturated just before an approach, not so much fun. An autopilot helps a lot with that.

So to answer the OP's question, an IFR plane with an autopilot, to make the experience more pleasant. Of course, you still have to train to hand fly as well.
 
tsts4 said:
WTF? I love to fly--I even built my own airplane to do so which took dedication far beyond anything we're discussing here. I just didn't think IR traing was fun and don't think that IFR flying, particularly in IMC is all that fun either. YMMV...I do derive satisfaction from it but I wouldn't categorize it as fun. For me IFR is more a means to an end--sorry that ruffles your sensibilities.
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Yep, we all need to respect our fellow pilots' love of flying, a love which comes in many different flavors.

I'm one of those that loves it all but what I love has changed over time. I'll always be a glider pilot and yet have little desire to return to it. My first plane had a tail wheel which I loved but the plane I built sits on it's nose. Building is the most rewarding task I've ever undertaken and yet I only have one build in me. And the plane I built was intended to be an all weather cruiser where IFR capability, speed and utility are the ultimate measures. Boring for some but it's my fun thing these days.

Now if I can just finish the electric powered mini-RC Pilatus Porter that my father started 20 years ago, my year will be complete.


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If you are like me and older than dirt, you may be grandfathered in :)
 
Think you level of enjoyment in the IFR world is going to be mostly dependent on your CFII, his level of comfort and experience in IMC/IFR, the airframe doesn't really matter, all the control movements and very slight, you wouldn't get much more enjoyment out of a extra 330L IFR than you would a C172, it's all slow easy rate 1 stuff.

The big one, find a CFII who worked in the IFR world, preferable one who had to do all his own flight planning and worked in a more adhoc type environment. A good CFII will make lots of your flight actual IMC scenarios, hey lets get a burger here, it's nice here, well just start off VFR and pull a IFR later, or getting a IFR in the ground, basically working things into a real world type scenario and having you actually do it. Also good to find one who knows when to use a sim, if even just MS flight sim.

As for the plane, something basic, cheap and easily to schedule.
 
Ravioli said:
Find a 152 with only one Nav/Comm. That will be fun as you you tune and spin (the bezel, not the plane) like mad to find an intersection.

I think I agree with @James331 - more basic panels tend to produce more advanced pilot skills.
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mtuomi said:
Make that a single ARC radio, flip-flop frequencies are cheating!
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Can I have 2 old ARC nav/coms? And maybe an ADF? Now that's fun instrument flying!

Back in my Dark Age freight dogs days ('91) hauling checks in a C-310R, we had a couple of airplanes equipped as such. I recall one leg on a cold, snowy night, MKC-MDW; 2 VORs and an ADF was my radio stack. No DME, HSI, heading bug, autopilot, radar, no nuthin'; radios were straight out of a 152... but we were good for known icing! Chicago approach was kinda busy and gave me an intersection hold for 10 minutes or so. That was a long 10 minutes...

Nowadays I prefer the 737 with dual everything, Cat III autoland and coupled RNP approach capability. It's like magic... but in my 310 days I was a much better instrument pilot.
 
I have a Warrior, and have instructed in a lot of other platforms as pilots sometimes bring their own planes. As with primary training, a Warrior or 171 class airplane are both good, stable platforms. Don't get your rating in anything smaller and don't get a rating and never see a cloud. Just make sure you have a decent modern GPS (Garmin 430W/530W,480,650,750, Avidyne 440,540) and good number 2 NavCom. A basic autopilot is a plus when training or flying in actual.

 
I don't hate flying without an AP. But I do hate flying without a heading bug.
 
SbestCFII said:
I have a Warrior, and have instructed in a lot of other platforms as pilots sometimes bring their own planes. As with primary training, a Warrior or 171 class airplane are both good, stable platforms. Don't get your rating in anything smaller and don't get a rating and never see a cloud. Just make sure you have a decent modern GPS (Garmin 430W/530W,480,650,750, Avidyne 440,540) and good number 2 NavCom. A basic autopilot is a plus when training or flying in actual.
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Nothing wrong with IR training in a 150.
 
Why is the GPS recommended? Its handy for sure but in no way necessary and will put you into a place where you need a more advanced airplane if you're renting.

The transition from 2xVOR to GPS + VOR is much easier than going back to dual VOR and paper charts.
 
tawood said:
Glad to hear you say that, because that is exactly what I'm about to start doing right after my heated pitot is installed...training for IR w/steam gauges w/2 vor's, one with ILS, and no autopilot.
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That is exactly what I have in my Cherokee and that is what I plan to do my rating in :p
 
Nobody mentioned making sure the airplane has an operable ADF for "fun"! Hehehe.

(I never minded ADF approaches. But some think they're of the devil. Ha.)
 
tsts4 said:
You are the first person that I recall using the terms IFR training and fun together.
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It's a blast. It's like playing video games, but with full 3-D motion. Unusual attitude recovery while under the hood is great fun; well maybe not if you have motion sensitivity.

lolachampcar said:
I would think adrenaline and IFR are not the best combination :) Plus the adrenaline comes from flying toys where I'm looking outside.
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Shooting an ILS with the weather reported as OVC001. That will get your attention. :D

I always find it fun breaking out of the clouds and finding the runway in front of me.
 
BigBadLou said:
I definitely misunderstood your post. Which is not hard on them Ynterwebs without the interaction of human beings face-to-face over beer and such. If that happens (beer face-to-face), I will gladly explain to you how I love flying. I will gladly explain it to anyone, especially over beer. ;) IFR or not, commandeering an airplane is just always fun time for me.
And if you notice my response in the Fighter Pilot Shortage thread, you might get the idea that I don't like flying just a little. Feel absolutely free to call me strange. (insert honest smiley here)
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I think it's fun, and training IR students in actual is fun too.
 
Acrodustertoo said:
Fun IFR platform? Here you go;
Pitts S2-
70028e167ed6ed9bf5e45926a6c1ce14.jpg

Christen eagle-
th

Great Lakes-
th
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Only fun if IFR means I Follow Roads/Railroads...
 
Most fun IFR platform for me is definitely the Beech 18.

Super stable. Puts a smile on my face every time.

Not exactly cheap though...
 
SbestCFII said:
I have a Warrior, and have instructed in a lot of other platforms as pilots sometimes bring their own planes. As with primary training, a Warrior or 171 class airplane are both good, stable platforms. Don't get your rating in anything smaller and don't get a rating and never see a cloud. Just make sure you have a decent modern GPS (Garmin 430W/530W,480,650,750, Avidyne 440,540) and good number 2 NavCom. A basic autopilot is a plus when training or flying in actual.

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The book numbers for Warriors don't look very good for IFR if there is any terrain around. You can't climb faster than 500 FPM above 5000, according to the book.

IRL, if you load lightly, it's much better. BUT you have to fly a lot slower than book Vy. I find 70 knots works nicely solo in a Warrior, up to 8000.

Though I operate out of sea level airports, it's rare to find MEAs below 5000. If I want to go any distance, even higher.

I find an Archer a lot easier to deal with. Though I spend most of my time in various Cessnas (my favorite is a 177RG, 'cause it's priced cheap and it's FAST compared to other trainers, making it the lowest per-mile cost I have access to).
 
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