FSDO issues getting Seaplane rating

C

Collin Armbruster

Filing Flight Plan
Joined
Sep 8, 2016
Messages
8
Display Name
Display name:
VectorVictor9
I am a Multi-Engine Commercial pilot, but commercial privilege is for multi-only not single engine. I am adding ASES (aircraft single engine seaplane) with only private privileges. FSDO is looking into the possibility of me not being able to get ASES with private privileges only. Their reasoning being you "can't go back in rating" and because I have a commercial rating, I would have to do ASES with commercial privileges. This will add a lot of time and money to my rating which is unnecessary. Anyone have any experience with this issue? *note, they are looking into it.. I am not sure what the final answer is but thought I would look into it myself. Thanks in advance for anyones actual experience in a similar situation.
 
Why will it add a lot of time and money? Every single ASES place out there I looked at does the add on for it for the same price and time whether private or commercial. And yes I have the C-ASES rating.
 
Collin Armbruster said:
I am a Multi-Engine Commercial pilot, but commercial privilege is for multi-only not single engine. I am adding ASES (aircraft single engine seaplane) with only private privileges. FSDO is looking into the possibility of me not being able to get ASES with private privileges only. Their reasoning being you "can't go back in rating" and because I have a commercial rating, I would have to do ASES with commercial privileges. This will add a lot of time and money to my rating which is unnecessary. Anyone have any experience with this issue? *note, they are looking into it.. I am not sure what the final answer is but thought I would look into it myself. Thanks in advance for anyones actual experience in a similar situation.
Click to expand...
A few extra flights for maneuvers required. I'm paying by the hour for flight time and instructor . Not a whole lot extra but it would cost more. Just trying to avoid the extra $500-1000 or whatever it would be.
 
The FSDO giving wrong info??? NO WAY.
The FAA is great... I love it. But... people make up the FAA.. so mistakes are guaranteed.
I don't see a reason why you can't get a ASES with PP privs. If your ratings were lets say..
PP MEL and PP SEL.. and you went comm MEL.. yu obviously would get a note on your comm lic saying "PP priv for SEL" .
The FSDO has issued me incorrect ratings in the past. I made a point to point it out and they didnt believe me. So I had to pull the FAR and show it to the inspector. I strongly believe we know more than the inspectors (at times).. just because a lot of people (like me) reads the FAR/AIM just for fun lol.

***I claim to be 99% correct and this may be that 1% error***
 
That's more than once now I've seen a Commercial Cerficate for Multi only but not Single. I'm assuming you have Single Private Pilot privelages. I'm scratching my head trying to figure out what sequence of pilot training leads up to this?

Edit: read some other responses more closely. Looks like it's not so much a sequence of trainging thing as maybe just a "paperwork" thing.
 
I also want to get the ASES rating.. school by me does for about 1500$ I think over like a 3 day period.
Planes on water???? YES please
 
BalooAirService said:
The FSDO giving wrong info??? NO WAY.
The FAA is great... I love it. But... people make up the FAA.. so mistakes are guaranteed.
I don't see a reason why you can't get a ASES with PP privs. If your ratings were lets say..
PP MEL and PP SEL.. and you went comm MEL.. yu obviously would get a note on your comm lic saying "PP priv for SEL" .
The FSDO has issued me incorrect ratings in the past. I made a point to point it out and they didnt believe me. So I had to pull the FAR and show it to the inspector. I strongly believe we know more than the inspectors (at times).. just because a lot of people (like me) reads the FAR/AIM just for fun lol.

***I claim to be 99% correct and this may be that 1% error***
Click to expand...
That's exactly what my license says. Commercial MEL and below that PP FOR ASEL.
 
This happens @ luvflyin just by getting your commercial multi before you do the single comm.
I think you save $$$ with the complex training that way.
 
luvflyin said:
That's more than once now I've seen a Commercial Cerficate for Multi only but not Single. I'm assuming you have Single Private Pilot privelages. I'm scratching my head trying to figure out what sequence of pilot training leads up to this?
Click to expand...
Flight school did this order and finished with CFI and commercial for ASEL together. I didn't finish my cfi. Switched careers and fly as a hobby now.
 
Then @ collin adding your ASES should be a non-issue
 
Hmmm.. what about trying a different FSDO?? something in the FARs should also give you a concrete answer.
 
Haven't gotten an official answer yet. It is a "potential issue". I'll post when I hear an official word back. Thank you and yes I will dig in the FARs. For now gotta go fly :)
 
just got off the phone with a CFI. She got a seaplane rating after already being a commercial pilot. She's scratching her head wondering what the problem would be. She does have commercial sea but thinks to get private only should not be an issue. She's also scratching her head wondering why you only want private seaplane. She thinks additional traing would be very minimal if any. Not much more than things like holding altitude +/- 50 instead of 100 etc. She'll ask around. What FSDO are you working with?
 
This much she found already looking it up.

"First thing I see about add-ons in the ACS (replaced the PTS) on the additional rating table: "For an applicant who holds AT LEAST a private pilot certificate and seeks an additional category and/or class rating at the private LEVEL..." That right there should tell you that you can add on at the private level even if you hold a commercial license."
 
I assume you hold an ASEL Private with the AMEL Commerical. Your cert should already show what offing different privs in different categories looks like, right on the back.

If you only did multi at your initial Private, different story.

Adding private privs for a category to a certificate with commerical privs for another is done all the time.

What do you currently hold?

Instrument rated? (Instrument generally sticks to class not category but requires specific tested times than might only be possible in say, a multi, for backward credit.)
 
Collin Armbruster said:
A few extra flights for maneuvers required. I'm paying by the hour for flight time and instructor . Not a whole lot extra but it would cost more. Just trying to avoid the extra $500-1000 or whatever it would be.
Click to expand...

Think beyond the checkride. Why are you getting your seaplane rating? Just for fun to reset the flight review clock? Or, are you buying a seaplane? If you want to continue flying seaplanes, the extra training/hours you perceive you need for the commercial single engine sea rating may be beneficial when it comes to actually getting insurance and being able to fly the plane without an instructor babysitting you.

Personally, I don't see how doing a single engine sea add on at the commercial level would really add any extra time or expense.
 
mondtster said:
Personally, I don't see how doing a single engine sea add on at the commercial level would really add any extra time or expense.
Click to expand...
Areas V and VI of the commercial PTS are not required if you already hold a Commercial ASEL, but would be required in this case. More maneuvers, more training, more time and expense.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Areas V and VI of the commercial PTS are not required if you already hold a Commercial ASEL, but would be required in this case. More maneuvers, more training, more time and expense.
Click to expand...

Ahh, good point. I was thinking of him trying to add on a private SES to a commercial rating on which he already had a SEL.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Areas V and VI of the commercial PTS are not required if you already hold a Commercial ASEL, but would be required in this case. More maneuvers, more training, more time and expense.
Click to expand...

But if you're already Commercial (regardless of class) you shouldn't need a a bunch of extra time to do a couple maneuvers. You should be able to nail them on go #1 regardless of the plane/ class you are in.
 
EdFred said:
But if you're already Commercial (regardless of class) you shouldn't need a a bunch of extra time to do a couple maneuvers. You should be able to nail them on go #1 regardless of the plane/ class you are in.
Click to expand...

Ok Ed, I'm sure you believe that, because time and again you've proven on here you're a superior pilot to us mere mortal but I couldn't go fly a damn lazy 8 if I had to right now. Heck, I'd probably have a hard time starting a piston airplane. Assuming I got past that, landing would be bad.
 
Collin Armbruster said:
That's exactly what my license says. Commercial MEL and below that PP FOR ASEL.
Click to expand...
Mine says "ATP Single and Multiengine Land, Commercial Privileges Sea." I have 32 hours on floats; the only checkride I took on floats was for the private.

Bob Gardner
 
Hey Gucci just got his water rating, and he flys KC-10s so he probably has at least a Commercial w/ SE & ME instrument on it. Thinking about getting my sea legs and I have an ATP, so wonder how that would work? :eek:
 
mscard88 said:
Hey Gucci just got his water rating, and he flys KC-10s so he probably has at least a Commercial w/ SE & ME instrument on it. Thinking about getting my sea legs and I have an ATP, so wonder how that would work? :eek:
Click to expand...

ATP requires 50 hours in category and class. Ain't no way in hell I was gonna fly the cub around for 50 hours at $185/hr! But I see what you're getting at lol. @Collin Armbruster I have an ATP and I was not required to do the ASES at the ATP level. I don't see why you would have to do it at the commercial level.
 
luvflyin said:
That's more than once now I've seen a Commercial Cerficate for Multi only but not Single. I'm assuming you have Single Private Pilot privelages. I'm scratching my head trying to figure out what sequence of pilot training leads up to this?
Click to expand...
Some people do it that way because the Comm AMEL checkride is one of the easiest checkrides you will have and if their goal is to fly big iron, then they figure there isn't a need to go through learning all the single engine maneuvers.
 
I took the private course for Seaplane but was so sharp the guy told me he was giving me the Comm too. I already had my single engine land com. What did it was the lean knob was working its way out by itself (some sort of primitive self leaning system, yeah right) and I asked the instructor why and he said "dont worry about it". My retort was "I INSIST on knowing why or I am returning to base NOW. NOW TELL ME!!" "All right all right" he says and he clued me in. The DE heard about and was impressed. That, and my first landing was an actual real glassy water, which I did correctly (I just did what the instructor told me to), I guess thats one checkride that went right for once!!

If you have a single engine land but dont have a single engine land Commercial I can see how they wouldn't be able to give you a single engine sea commercial, but I don't see why they couldnt give you a single engine sea rating on top of your single engine land...
 
BalooAirService said:
This happens @ luvflyin just by getting your commercial multi before you do the single comm.
I think you save $$$ with the complex training that way.
Click to expand...

Right

Complete opposite here, did my initial CPL in a SES.

As far as the maneuvers, airwork should be easy enough for a CPL, the precision landings might be different story however
 
James331 said:
As far as the maneuvers, airwork should be easy enough for a CPL, the precision landings might be different story however
Click to expand...
The ASEL air work isn't a huge deal, but the point is, you don't have do do any of that stuff (chandelles, Lazy 8s, 8s around a point...etc on a ME ride.

But.....no one 'saves' money by doing the Multi ride first unless maybe they never go back and do the ASEL.
 
Maybe I missed something, but how did the FSDO even get involved with this?
 
Fearless Tower said:
Some people do it that way because the Comm AMEL checkride is one of the easiest checkrides you will have and if their goal is to fly big iron, then they figure there isn't a need to go through learning all the single engine maneuvers.
Click to expand...

Ah. Got it.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Maybe I missed something, but how did the FSDO even get involved with this?
Click to expand...
DPE works out of the FSDO.

I would think that if IACRA will accept it, then you can do it.

If you have Comm AMEL, with Pvt Privileges ASEL, then you can ad Pvt ASES.
 
Try getting a ASES rating with an ATP certificate. You have to fly to a higher standard,which does had to the cost.
 
Collin Armbruster said:
I am a Multi-Engine Commercial pilot, but commercial privilege is for multi-only not single engine. I am adding ASES (aircraft single engine seaplane) with only private privileges. FSDO is looking into the possibility of me not being able to get ASES with private privileges only. Their reasoning being you "can't go back in rating" and because I have a commercial rating, I would have to do ASES with commercial privileges. This will add a lot of time and money to my rating which is unnecessary. Anyone have any experience with this issue? *note, they are looking into it.. I am not sure what the final answer is but thought I would look into it myself. Thanks in advance for anyones actual experience in a similar situation.
Click to expand...

I would be very surprised to learn this is not ok. I personally know multiple people who've added privileges at lower levels.
 
browns seaplane base winterhaven fl
 
\__[Ô]__/ said:
I would be very surprised to learn this is not ok. I personally know multiple people who've added privileges at lower levels.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

So, as an ATP, if I finally got around to getting my glider ticket, I'd have to be a get a ATP-G, if there even is such a thing
 
Gucci Pilot said:
Plus instrument work
Click to expand...

To slightly derail the thread- I know you could obviously do the instrument work in a SES just by shooting approaches to normal airports, but are there any examples of an instrument approach to a Sea Plane Base?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top