Front Range flying

Groundpounder

Groundpounder

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Emerson Bigguns
Tossing around the idea of moving to the Denver area from New England. What is the flying like around there? I've been in and out of there plenty of times in a work airplane, but never in a GA airplane. Seems like there is always something crazy going on, with winds in the winter and storms in the summer, and winds in the summer and storms in the winter. How often do you reschedule your flying due to weather? Where are some good/popular places to go? What are some good $100 hamburger destinations?
 
I don't know. How do you like prevailing 80-100 nm visibility during the 320 VFR days a year? Me, I miss it and was so sorry the airplane a friend and I rented when I was visiting a few weeks ago went down for maintenance :( .

Yes, spring and summer afternoons mean storms, your crosswind skills will be improved, and the only flyable IFR will be during a 6-week period during May-June, but over 20 years there, I rarely had to cancel a flight for weather. OTOH, I became an expert in afternoon diversions :D

You may also discover something that I did when we moved there from Massachusetts. Once out of the metro area, things are further apart than you are used to so you start thinking in terms of longer distances being normal. For example, I ended up thinking of KAPA to KSAF (244 nm straight line distance) as a "local" flight, not requiring any more planning than the 30 NM between KEEN and KVSF.
 
I flew for years in and out of the Denver area. To try to claim only 6 weeks of IMC conditions a year is a bit of a wild stretch.
 
Doc Holliday said:
I flew for years in and out of the Denver area. To try to claim only 6 weeks of IMC conditions a year is a bit of a wild stretch.
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If it is anything like the Boise Area there is no way you are going to get 6 weeks of flyable IMC days in a GA non-fiki airplane. Some years might not have 6 days a year. Sure we might get a total of 6 weeks of IMC weather but only a few days of that are non-icing days.

Brian
 
Currently living in the Denver area. Saturday 10/28 (and Sunday) - the first serious snow storm of the season. Monday - clear, cold and perfect flying weather. Will be the same all week, in fact into the 60s by the weekend (Nov 4). If it's IMC around here, usually not a good idea for little spam cans, altho plain fog is just fine for IFR (temps permitting).

I had over 6 in of snow in the backyard on Monday morning. Tuesday morning? Cold but the snow's gone. Out here, if it's clear, some of the best flying anywhere

I limit flying in July because I just don't like being in a flying convection oven, and plan all the maintenance then.

Where you will have a problem - hangar space if you're bringing an airplane.

Where to go...in the winter, pretty much anywhere other than west over the hills. Around the hills, yes, but not over due to winds. Rats, I didn't get my mtn flying review in time this fall, must wait until spring. (I go up with an experienced MTN CFI every 2-3 years, checking out different routes and passes) Head up to the WY-CO state line, go west then SSW into Steamboat Springs, again, no need to go higher than 10.5K and no mountain passes. "10.5K You Exclaim!" yes, but remember you're starting at 5000+ ft msl.

Nice little museum at Pueblo (KPUB) about an hour south in my cherokee. Watch out for the USAF IPT DA-20s. Since Cabelas opened 2 stores in the area (and then was bought and destroyed by Bass Pro Shops) not much reason to go to Sidney, NE anymore. A bit over an hour to Canon City with the Royal Gorge RR and a winery (to bring home for later consumption) but no food at the airport. 3 hours to Sante Fe/Taos/Albuquerque area, an easy day trip, nothing over 10.5K, winds not much of a problem (unlike going over/thru passes at 12.5 and higher - winds can be wicked in the winter).

Maps and the book of every airport here: https://www.codot.gov/programs/aeronautics

Side note: Mark! - you were here and didn't tell anyone? It's been ages since we've had an excuse for lunch or dinner. tsk tsk tsk
 
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Groundpounder said:
Tossing around the idea of moving to the Denver area from New England. What is the flying like around there? I've been in and out of there plenty of times in a work airplane, but never in a GA airplane. Seems like there is always something crazy going on, with winds in the winter and storms in the summer, and winds in the summer and storms in the winter. How often do you reschedule your flying due to weather? Where are some good/popular places to go? What are some good $100 hamburger destinations?
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You won't regret it if you like flying around snow capped mountains and blue skies. Wind and density altitude are constant factors, but you will get used to them. Storms are easy to avoid. You can see them from 50 miles away. You will get rusty in IFR. Even VFR naviagation skills will decline because visibility is often unrestricted. I was based in New Mexico, similar terrain and not too far from there. I rarely cancelled a flight due to weather.
 
murphey said:
Currently living in the Denver area. Saturday 10/28 (and Sunday) - the first serious snow storm of the season. Monday - clear, cold and perfect flying weather. Will be the same all week, in fact into the 60s by the weekend (Nov 4). If it's IMC around here, usually not a good idea for little spam cans, altho plain fog is just fine for IFR (temps permitting).

I had over 6 in of snow in the backyard on Monday morning. Tuesday morning? Cold but the snow's gone. Out here, if it's clear, some of the best flying anywhere

I limit flying in July because I just don't like being in a flying convection oven, and plan all the maintenance then.

Where you will have a problem - hangar space if you're bringing an airplane.

Where to go...in the winter, pretty much anywhere other than west over the hills. Around the hills, yes, but not over due to winds. Rats, I didn't get my mtn flying review in time this fall, must wait until spring. (I go up with an experienced MTN CFI every 2-3 years, checking out different routes and passes) Head up to the WY-CO state line, go west then SSW into Steamboat Springs, again, no need to go higher than 10.5K and no mountain passes. "10.5K You Exclaim!" yes, but remember you're starting at 5000+ ft msl.

Nice little museum at Pueblo (KPUB) about an hour south in my cherokee. Watch out for the USAF IPT DA-20s. Since Cabelas opened 2 stores in the area (and then was bought and destroyed by Bass Pro Shops) not much reason to go to Sidney, NE anymore. A bit over an hour to Canon City with the Royal Gorge RR and a winery (to bring home for later consumption) but no food at the airport. 3 hours to Sante Fe/Taos/Albuquerque area, an easy day trip, nothing over 10.5K, winds not much of a problem (unlike going over/thru passes at 12.5 and higher - winds can be wicked in the winter).

Maps and the book of every airport here: https://www.codot.gov/programs/aeronautics

Side note: Mark! - you were here and didn't tell anyone? It's been ages since we've had an excuse for lunch or dinner. tsk tsk tsk
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Copy all that. If you mean by "here" PoA, I've been here for a while. Not 100% sure who you are but I'm down for lunch or dinner whenever.
 
Groundpounder said:
Copy all that. If you mean by "here" PoA, I've been here for a while. Not 100% sure who you are but I'm down for lunch or dinner whenever.
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The reference to Mark was to Midlifeflyer, who used to live in Colorado and once in a while, deigns to return.
 
Doc Holliday said:
I flew for years in and out of the Denver area. To try to claim only 6 weeks of IMC conditions a year is a bit of a wild stretch.
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What can I say? That was my experience over the course of 20 years based at KAPA. It was fun to watch that period. CFIIs would grab their students for a chance at some actual for this limited period.

On a lark, I checked my logbook for flights out of KAPA where I logged actual. 22 flights. 6 were outside that time frame and in 4 of the 6, the part in actual was away from the Front Range.

By "flyable," I mean flyable by light GA without ice protection. Of course there are PM thunderstorms spring and summer and plenty of ICGICIP in the winter snowstorms.
 
midlifeflyer said:
You mean like this one? https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/colorado-poa.144657/

And you were away - see your PMs from 9/15.
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arrrrrggggg. Right - I was in my Anonymous CAP Secret Identity in the middle of Utah. On the other hand, the Ring of Fire was spectacular, and even more fun, watching CAP cadets do everything, with incredible politeness, that I'm definitely not used to. The Richfield National Guard Armory hasn't been that clean since it was built. The kids swept then mopped the floors. They even cleaned the drinking fountains. About the only thing they didn't do was scrub the toilets, altho they did mop the toilet floors. About a dozen of the Senior members were standing around (leaning against the walls) watching. One of them remarked "this would make the best recruiting video ever .... for Senior member". How true.
 
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Living on the east side of the Rockies in NM, my IFR flying is mostly in mild IFR weather, when weather is bad here(ie ice, TS), it’s VFR or don’t go. Even in relative bad weather, VFR is the best option.
 
Adding to the OP's question. I'm moving from the FL Panhandle to Colorado Springs next summer. I have a 160 HP Warrior and I wanted to get some advice on whether that will be usable out there. Obviously planning on taking a mountain flying course. Any other advice you all could offer (unfortunately, buying a plane with more HP is not an option at the moment...)
 
Your plane will be fine, but will need to adjust your useful load, time of day flying, amount of fuel for cross- countries. Regardless of the plane, or horsepower, these adjustments need to be made. I flew a 180hp Comanche out of a 3300 dirt strip @ 7200 ft(E32) safely. I just about bought the farm when I bought a 250hp Comanche and thought HP could make this a more safe operation. Start out conservative and slowly find what operations are safe.
 
I have lived in Colorado Springs for over 43 years and for 20 of those years flew an O-300 (135 hp) '64 Skyhawk. Density altitude at my airport (KFLY) can easily exceed 10 k on a hot summer day so the Skyhawk was marginal to say the least. Now I fly an Arrow 200 (non turbo) that makes trips to the west coast much easier at 12.5 (west).

Someone mentioned distance between airports. TRUE! A Friend and I flew to KABQ (Albuquerque, NM) for lunch yesterday, a 2 hour flight. There are about 3 or 4 airports along the way. My practice is to always depart with full fuel. You cannot bank on winds aloft estimates. ADS-B weather and ATC comms are sketchy below 10 k in many mountain areas so thorough flight planning is absolutely a must. Others mention the fact that staying IFR current AND proficient is tough. Seems like IMC are either full of ice or hail and lightning. Speaking of hail...do whatever it takes to find cover for your plane. Hangars along the Front Range are super scarce. Winds in winter/spring can easily reach 60 to 70 mph on the surface. More benign winds will test your crosswind skills!! So...expect to learn a LOT about high density altitude flying, detailed flight planning, windy weather flying and ENJOY!!!
 
Having lived in Colorado and Idaho, mountain flying needs to be respected. I watched this video from Mike Patey and Juan Brown last weekend live. It is long but the last 90 min is very good. The emotion from Mike was a surprise. He said he had lost 4 good flying friends recently and was overwhelmed by it. One point he talks about I think it was a 172 that Mike said the minute he turned up the canyon he was not coming out. Well worth watching. If you are going to play in the mountains, be prepared.

 
Arrow76R said:
I have lived in Colorado Springs for over 43 years and for 20 of those years flew an O-300 (135 hp) '64 Skyhawk. Density altitude at my airport (KFLY) can easily exceed 10 k on a hot summer day so the Skyhawk was marginal to say the least. Now I fly an Arrow 200 (non turbo) that makes trips to the west coast much easier at 12.5 (west).

Someone mentioned distance between airports. TRUE! A Friend and I flew to KABQ (Albuquerque, NM) for lunch yesterday, a 2 hour flight. There are about 3 or 4 airports along the way. My practice is to always depart with full fuel. You cannot bank on winds aloft estimates. ADS-B weather and ATC comms are sketchy below 10 k in many mountain areas so thorough flight planning is absolutely a must. Others mention the fact that staying IFR current AND proficient is tough. Seems like IMC are either full of ice or hail and lightning. Speaking of hail...do whatever it takes to find cover for your plane. Hangars along the Front Range are super scarce. Winds in winter/spring can easily reach 60 to 70 mph on the surface. More benign winds will test your crosswind skills!! So...expect to learn a LOT about high density altitude flying, detailed flight planning, windy weather flying and ENJOY!!!
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Thanks for the advice. I actually just put my name on the waitlist for their covered tie downs at KFLY. As you said, hangars are scarce out there (they are in NW FL too- I was on a waitlist for 2 years before I got one). At KCOS, they're $700/month with a waitlist. I was thinking about getting the whole aircraft cover set from Bruce that has the hail padding. Would that be helpful, or will the winds just shred them?
 
You will take off and land in 20G30 direct crosswinds, climb just a couple thousand feet to your cruising altitude of 8500-12500, see your destination 50 miles before you can get the AWOS (150 miles at night), almost never be in gliding range of an airport, and only fly in IMC on cross country trips to other states. You’ll love it.
 
iamtheari said:
You will take off and land in 20G30 direct crosswinds, climb just a couple thousand feet to your cruising altitude of 8500-12500, see your destination 50 miles before you can get the AWOS (150 miles at night), almost never be in gliding range of an airport, and only fly in IMC on cross country trips to other states. You’ll love it.
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If I can't see Pikes Peak from home (just north of KAPA), I usually decide not to fly.
 
It was a little murky in DEN this morning, and bumpy as heck in the low 20's over the mountains.
 

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Anyone here familiar with Loveland? Seems like a cool community, and finding a lot of houses on Zillow that fit what we're looking for.
 
The US Air Force knows a thing or two about flying weather. They could have put their Service Academy anywhere. They picked Colorado Springs.
 
Ed Haywood said:
The US Air Force knows a thing or two about flying weather. They could have put their Service Academy anywhere. They picked Colorado Springs.
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Not exactly:

www.cspm.org

United States Air Force Academy - CSPM

The National Security Act of 1947 established an independent and co-equal United States Air Force....Read More
www.cspm.org www.cspm.org

"In 1954, the site selection committee for the Air Force Academy was deadlocked, so three members made another trip to Colorado Springs. To view the proposed runway area, they went to Pine Valley Airport to rent a plane. The “hard-boiled” manager asked one of the men if he knew how to fly and had a license. “I think I can fly. Yes, I have a license,” he replied. “Well…come into my office… I’ll look over your papers.” When General Charles Lindbergh placed a dozen licenses, each bearing his photo on the manager’s desk, he got the plane and Colorado Springs got the USAFA."

And the $1M the state provided for the land didn't hurt.
 
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