Forward Slip

[jesse]

You are on final approach and too high. You decide to do a forward slip.

Do you

1.) Press the left rudder and right aileron

OR

2.) Press the right rudder and left aileron.


I noticed in flightsim today that I always do left rudder and right aileron if I have no reason to do otherwise (for example an uncoordinated slipping turn from base to final is a great way to lose altitude). I am right handed.

 

[tonycondon]

I usually am in the right seat, so I do right rudder and left aileron, right handed. Gives me a good view of the runway and keeps left hand free to run throttle/flaps and whatever. If im in the left, then its left rudder, right aileron, left handed. In the glider or super cub, tandem seating, i guess i usually do right rudder/left aileron, just what im used to more.

 

[fgcason]

You need a selection for either way.
Forward slip, side slip, same thing. I go whichever way gives the desired flight path. Sometimes visibility for obstacle avoidance could make it go one way instead of the other. If there's no desired path, it's a coin toss on which way the controls are moved. Airplane, runway, make plane move along a path through the air to the runway, go with what works.

As for right/left hand, that's seat and airplane dependent. One hand goes on the yoke/stick, one on the throttle.

 

[N8894J]

You need a selection for either way. quote]

Normally I will lower the wing into the wind and opposite rudder.

 

[EdFred]

bofe.

 

[Nav8tor]

In an airplane I always fly from the left seat, so for best visibility I'll slip with the nose to the right, so its right rudder and left aileron. In a glider I tend to do the same, but mainly due to force of habit.

 

[gismo]

You need a selection for either way. quote]

Normally I will lower the wing into the wind and opposite rudder.

Same here. If there's truly no wind and I'm in a plane with two seats side by side, I'll slip with the wing on my side down, in tandem seat airplane it's whichever way I feel like at the time, possibly alternating it on final (just for the heck of it). One other decider: if it's a plane with wing tanks and no "both" position, I'll raise the wing that the engine is drawing fuel from.

Jesse, you need a choice like: "whatever works best at the time", otherwise I can't vote. BTW I doubt that left or right handedness is a factor at all.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Wings tilted into the wind, if there is any crosswind.

Without any significant crosswind, I go with left wing down (flying from left seat) for improved forward visibility. Left aileron, right rudder. I do this with my left hand, even though I'm right-handed.

Of course, this is also assuming I'm flying a traditional yoke airplane with the throttles to my right. I think in a Cub or similar (center stick, throttle on left) I'd still slip the same direction, but obviously using my right hand on the stick.

One other decider: if it's a plane with wing tanks and no "both" position, I'll raise the wing that the engine is drawing fuel from.

Hmmm... Good point, hadn't thought of that one.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Nose down & windward wing down into the wind, opposite rudder.

No wind? Wing down on the side of the PAX that will get the most kick out of the view or, I even alternate wings down if there's time. Either seat PIC.

 

[Richard]

I go all ways.

 

[SkyHog]

depends on the wind. Are you serious about the uncoordinated slipping turn from base to final? Seems a bit too risky for me.

 

[ScottM]

You are on final approach and too high. You decide to do a forward slip.

Do you

1.) Press the left rudder and right aileron

OR

2.) Press the right rudder and left aileron.


I noticed in flightsim today that I always do left rudder and right aileron if I have no reason to do otherwise (for example an uncoordinated slipping turn from base to final is a great way to lose altitude). I am right handed.

I slip into the wind so 'none of the above' is my choice as it, like most answers in aviation, depends.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Done from the downwind leg and then switching the windward wing down to the opposite forward slip when coming about into primarily the headwind, when properly practised and properly flown, is perhaps the fastest of the short approaches to LDG. Did anybody say keep that nose DOWN?

 

[silver-eagle]

More often than not, right rudder/left aileron but... It does depend on which way the wind is blowing. As I was taught, it should not be "your normal landing".
Not that you asked, but side slip vs crab on final.

 

[tonycondon]

depends on the wind. Are you serious about the uncoordinated slipping turn from base to final? Seems a bit too risky for me.

Slipping turn really isnt too bad, as long as you maintain your airspeed, like anything else. Its a lot harder to spin out of a slip than a skid, plus if you do spin it, the wings will roll through level, gives you more time to react. Turning slips are required to be demonstrated by the Glider PTS, they are a very effective way to lose altitude fast.

 

[Ken Ibold]

I love slips -- the more extreme the better. I love slipping turns. Unfortunately, with an airplane that glides like a brick I seldom use them anymore. If the tower gives me a long final, even just kicking in a momentary yaw to check where the runway is costs me a noticeable amount of altitude.

 

[jdwatson]

If I get the choice, I do my slip so I can look out the pilot's side window. It really depends on how high and the winds.

 

[jesse]

Interesting points.

I had no sleep when I made the poll (actually walked into a door) and quite frankly didn't think about it much. The whole wind thing didn't even cross my mind, but obviously, with a cross wind it would be wing down into the wind.

Are you serious about the uncoordinated slipping turn from base to final? Seems a bit too risky for me.

Yes. Like anything there is risk (very minimal though) but also like anything it is a very useful tool to have when done properly. It's all 'bout the airspeed!

 

[gismo]

I go all ways.

Does your wife know that?

 

[poadeleted20]

I drop the wing to whichever side the wind is from, since I run out of rudder before I run out of aileron, and doing it wing-down-into-the-wind allows more bank and thus more effective slipping.

 

[AirBaker]

depends on the wind. Are you serious about the uncoordinated slipping turn from base to final? Seems a bit too risky for me.

Never tried a slipping turn before...

 

[infotango]

Slipping turn really isnt too bad, as long as you maintain your airspeed, like anything else. Its a lot harder to spin out of a slip than a skid, plus if you do spin it, the wings will roll through level, gives you more time to react. Turning slips are required to be demonstrated by the Glider PTS, they are a very effective way to lose altitude fast.

I flew with an instructor in an Aeronca who claimed that it was impossible to stall the airplane in a full slip. We went up and tried it and the plane flat ran out of elevator authority. No stall=no spin. I don't know if this just a peculiarity of the champ or applies to most planes.

 

[Shipoke]

Ive done it both ways, and even did both on one approach when i went with a new instructor that told me show me what you know,after my instructor left with about 6 hours left in my training.
Dave G.

 

[poadeleted20]

Are you serious about the uncoordinated slipping turn from base to final? Seems a bit too risky for me.

Not if you keep your speed up. Remember -- you can't spin if you don't stall.

 

[poadeleted20]

I flew with an instructor in an Aeronca who claimed that it was impossible to stall the airplane in a full slip. We went up and tried it and the plane flat ran out of elevator authority. No stall=no spin. I don't know if this just a peculiarity of the champ or applies to most planes.

I am absolutely 100% completely certain that it's a peculiarity of the plane you were flying, and if you want to go up to 3000 AGL in another plane approved for spins, I'll prove it to you.

 

[inav8r]

I flew with an instructor in an Aeronca who claimed that it was impossible to stall the airplane in a full slip. We went up and tried it and the plane flat ran out of elevator authority. No stall=no spin. I don't know if this just a peculiarity of the champ or applies to most planes.

I had an old school instructor demonstrate this in my club 172 as well. It stopped slipping before the stall. Tho I don't see myself trying this by myself anytime soon. I posted about it on here somewhere...

Edit: My writeup must have been on the old AOPA forum as the logbook entry for "SLIPS TO A STALL" is from December of '04 which predates PoA.

 

[MauleSkinner]

The whole wind thing didn't even cross my mind, but obviously, with a cross wind it would be wing down into the wind.

Well, not so obviously

I normally slip left-wing-down. If the crosswind is from the right, I transition to the right-wing-low slip prior to touchdown.

In fact, I've landed in a turn with the upwind wing raised...once I was aligned with the runway, I switched wheels.

Fly safe!

David

 

[gibbons]

I am absolutely 100% completely certain that it's a peculiarity of the plane you were flying, and if you want to go up to 3000 AGL in another plane approved for spins, I'll prove it to you.

Ron is absolutely 100% completely right here (big surprise). For the price of gas I'll let you demonstrate it to yourself in the Extra. It is very possible to spin from a full slip, but it's a slow entry and it's very easy to correct before the spin develops if you've practiced it.

As for slips, unlike most of you guys I always slip nose into the wind. So if I have a quartering headwind from the right, I slip with right rudder, left aileron. I want the nose into the wind, not downwind. I frequently slip throughout the turn all the way from downwind to short final.

Chip

 

[gismo]

Ron is absolutely 100% completely right here (big surprise). For the price of gas I'll let you demonstrate it to yourself in the Extra. It is very possible to spin from a full slip, but it's a slow entry and it's very easy to correct before the spin develops if you've practiced it.

I suspect that the ability to stall a plane out of a full slip is also dependent on the CG. At the aft limit it takes considerably less up elevator to exceed the stalling AOA.

As for slips, unlike most of you guys I always slip nose into the wind.

Care to elaborate (like why)? I assume you still slip the other way in a crosswind by the time you are ready to touch down.

 

[MauleSkinner]

I suspect that the ability to stall a plane out of a full slip is also dependent on the CG. At the aft limit it takes considerably less up elevator to exceed the stalling AOA.

I can't speak to the Extra, or airplanes of that class, but I've found that with older airplanes, when they put flaps on 'em, they make the rudder smaller...smaller rudder makes for a smaller "full slip".

When I was towing gliders in a PA-12, we used to go full top rudder with about 60-80 degrees of bank to spiral down, and you could bring the elevator to the stop regardless of whether you were solo or dual.

With the Super Cub, you can't slip it as steeply, and you start to get some stall burble if you bring the stick full back.

Fly safe!

David

 

[AirBaker]

For the price of gas I'll let you demonstrate it to yourself in the Extra.

Chip

I'm going to start saving up for gas money... And its not because I don't believe you!

 

[gibbons]

Care to elaborate (like why)? I assume you still slip the other way in a crosswind by the time you are ready to touch down.

A couple of reasons. First, that's the way I was taught and old habits die hard. Second, it just makes sense to me that I would put the nose of the airplane into the wind. If I'm trying to hold course on final with a quartering headwind, I want the nose into the wind. So if the wind is coming from the left, that's left rudder and right aileron. I take any slip out on short final and land upwind wing down, so you're right... I have to switch when I land.
Chip

 

[infotango]

A very interesting discussion.
Chip, I'd love the chance to go flying in an Extra...but Ark is just a touch far away. Rats!
Ron, if you don't mind, sometime when I am down in MD I might fly a 172 across the bay and let you show me, I've only spun a 172 once (with an instructor) and would prefer not to run that risk on my own. I'll pick up dinner.

Rudder authority in a 172 has got to be less than in an Aeronca. I wonder if it is because they want to avoid deep slips in the 172 which can cause that oscillation in the elevator with the flaps down. (By the way I've only experienced this in a 172 N s with 40 degrees flaps. )
The 172 will be at no greater than a 35 degree bank in full slip, while the Aeronca seemed to be at around 50 degrees. I wonder if the ability to slip at an angle greater than 45 degrees makes stall impossible to enter into from a slip?

 

[gismo]

A very interesting discussion.
Chip, I'd love the chance to go flying in an Extra...but Ark is just a touch far away. Rats!
Ron, if you don't mind, sometime when I am down in MD I might fly a 172 across the bay and let you show me, I've only spun a 172 once (with an instructor) and would prefer not to run that risk on my own. I'll pick up dinner.

Rudder authority in a 172 has got to be less than in an Aeronca. I wonder if it is because they want to avoid deep slips in the 172 which can cause that oscillation in the elevator with the flaps down. (By the way I've only experienced this in a 172 N s with 40 degrees flaps. )
The 172 will be at no greater than a 35 degree bank in full slip, while the Aeronca seemed to be at around 50 degrees. I wonder if the ability to slip at an angle greater than 45 degrees makes stall impossible to enter into from a slip?

I think it has more to do with the amount of basic elevator authority combined with the loss of same when the airplane (and elevator) are sliding sideways.

 

[tdager]

Well I am still working on getting the hang of slips.

However since we are not allowed to slip with flaps per the POH, well it makes it difficult to get training in. Sure we do some slip training in case flaps fail, but for the most part I am just happy to work on normal landings WITH flaps!

 

[infotango]

Well I am still working on getting the hang of slips.

However since we are not allowed to slip with flaps per the POH, well it makes it difficult to get training in. Sure we do some slip training in case flaps fail, but for the most part I am just happy to work on normal landings WITH flaps!

Tom, actually you ARE allowed to do slips with full flaps on a 172 (which I think you are flying). The line in the POH is not a restriction. If you read the exact line in the 172 book you will notice that they are careful to add that slips with full flaps are permitted, just not recommended.
My instructor got in a heated argument with the stage check instructor on this one. Sometimes a slip and full flaps can be just the ticket to get the plane to drop like a rock and come down right on target when you are high on an engine failure drill.
On the 172N which has up to 40 degrees of flaps, you can get an oscillation of the elevator when you slip with 40, but I've never felt this oscillation with anything less than 40. Its a little disconcerting at first, but soon you get used to it, and it's really nothing to worry about.

 

[jesse]

Well I am still working on getting the hang of slips.

However since we are not allowed to slip with flaps per the POH, well it makes it difficult to get training in. Sure we do some slip training in case flaps fail, but for the most part I am just happy to work on normal landings WITH flaps!

What exactly does the POH say? Most of the time it doesn't say that you are prohibited from slipping from flaps, it simply says it's not recommended with full flaps..Or something to that effect.

I have yet to see a Cessna 172 that is dangerous in a full slip with full flaps. I've done it in every 172 I've ever touched. Two of the maybe 8 172's I've flown you would get essentially an elevator fludder. The yoke would shake forward and aft about 1/2 an inch pretty rapidly. Exit the slip and it goes away instantly..Or just ignore the shake and keep on slipping. It's fun to look at the tail when it's doing that.

All in all. Slipping a 172 with full flaps is completely safe and a very very valuable tool. You can come down like a brick. One of the thing I like to do is pull power to idle on a 1/4 mile pattern abeam the numbers hit full flaps and start a full turning 180 degree slip and touchdown before the numbers. Once you do it a few times you can do it all day long without error.

My ground track is like so:

If I am practicing what I mentioned above I *never* even get close to Highway 63.

Doing something like that is extremely non-standard. You have to be careful or you may catch some pilot off guard and cause a big mess. At an uncontrolled airfield I do nothing but completely standard patterns. I will only do this at a controlled airfield and that is only if they are completely dead with no traffic and after I explained what I'll do.

 

[Richard]

Oh sure, Jesse. You expect us to believe you make square turns and you stay on the centerline too? I suppose next you'll claim you can finish your turn to final, descend, land, take off, and climb to within 300 of TPA all within 2,750' in a full flap'd C-172.

 

[jesse]

Oh sure, Jesse. You expect us to believe you make square turns and you stay on the centerline too? I suppose next you'll claim you can finish your turn to final, descend, land, take off, and climb to within 300 of TPA all within 2,750' in a full flap'd C-172.

Haha. Next time I'll have my GPS record my ground track. All I really know is I turn my crosswind before runway 2/20... I'm at TPA when I pull the power...A C172 climbs pretty quick when I'm alone (145 lbs) and usually below 30 degrees outside.

If you do what I show above. There isn't much of a descend after finishing the turn to final. Usually wings go level just as you touchdown.

 

[RotaryWingBob]

I drop the wing to whichever side the wind is from, since I run out of rudder before I run out of aileron, and doing it wing-down-into-the-wind allows more bank and thus more effective slipping.

Agreed Ron. The poll was missing a "depends" answer...