ForeFlight's single biggest flaw

timwinters

timwinters

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IMO it is the loss of information at the "overlaps" of sectionals. One example: the Flippin AR (FLP) airport info is completely lost "below the overlapping sectional". Numerous other examples of this can be found "around the edges" of sectionals everywhere. I brought this to their attention long ago, but maybe there is nothing they can do about it.

That's my opinion, what's yours?
 
I only used ForeFlight briefly before I got rid of my iPad (it just so happened that I had the subscription during a time where I wasn't flying much), but I never noticed the issue.

As for them not being able to do anything about it, I don't buy it. I am an iOS developer myself, and anything can be done with code, it's more about it they think it is worth their time.

I'm sure if enough people bring it to their attention, they would see the value in getting this fixed.
 
If that's the biggest flaw in ForeFlight, I can live with it, since there are a lot of ways to pull the information up besides the data block on the sectional.
 
My beefs are:

1. Lack of audible terrain warning.
2. Flight plans not synced between iPad and iPhone.
3. Lack of VNAV features
 
timwinters said:
IMO it is the loss of information at the "overlaps" of sectionals. One example: the Flippin AR (FLP) airport info is completely lost "below the overlapping sectional". Numerous other examples of this can be found "around the edges" of sectionals everywhere. I brought this to their attention long ago, but maybe there is nothing they can do about it.

That's my opinion, what's yours?
Click to expand...

That's more a charting issue than a Foreflight flaw. My understanding is that AeroNav services is in the process of producing a digital product that is layered and continuous, so you don't have overlap and stitching issues on the edges of charts. I'm not sure when we'll see it though.
 
I would love to see some type of synthetic vision in foreflight. Even just for the gimmick of it.
 
Vector mapping is why I switched to Garmin Pilot. The map presenation is exceptional and if I want the sectional I have that option too. Now that they added the Garmin Synthetic Vision, I am even more happy with my switch.
 
I'd go with the lack of VNAV -- not on the approach, mind you, but for flight-planning use. Would be pretty nice to setup your plane with a certain climb/descent rate and airspeed profile for more precisely planning ETE and fuel burn, and for setting up different cruise altitudes for different portions of the flight. I'd also like to see a "profile view" showing your route vs terrain height along the way. AOPA's flight planner had this years ago when I used to use it.
 
timwinters said:
IMO it is the loss of information at the "overlaps" of sectionals. One example: the Flippin AR (FLP) airport info is completely lost "below the overlapping sectional". Numerous other examples of this can be found "around the edges" of sectionals everywhere. I brought this to their attention long ago, but maybe there is nothing they can do about it.
Click to expand...

Tim,

I know that the system was completely re-written a couple of years ago - In the testing process, I went through hundreds of miles of sectional edges trying to find these issues and reporting them. The newer version fixed numerous existing issues, only to create a few new ones - There's no perfect way to do it automatically.

Ron's right, though - Touch the map for a sec and hit "Details". There's all the info you're missing and then some. Pretty simple, and rarely needed, workaround.
 
As for what I think the single biggest "flaw" of ForeFlight is - Well, that it doesn't do every little geeky thing I want it to! :D

However, I don't view missing features as "flaws" per se - Features that are present and simply do not work the way they should are flaws. Features that haven't yet been added are probably in the pipeline, especially if they're in high demand.

Part of the appeal of ForeFlight to me is that what is there works exceptionally well, and they're continually developing new features. A feature that doesn't work well is useless, since you'll tend not to use it if it's a pain, even if it is present. This is even more true of aviation apps than others, since you want the EFB app to help you fly the plane, not get in the way of it. If there's a feature you want, send 'em a request - Chances are you'll see it eventually.
 
I have agree, I end up using a higher fuel burn for flight planning to account for take off and climb, especially in the 425, I did the same thing with the 421. When you are burning 60 GPH for take off and 40 GPH for cruise, I ended up using 45GPH for flight planning, but it was never as accurate as DUAT was. I like being able to put in climb speeds and fuel burn as well as decent speeds and fuel burn, I had DUAT pretty close and usually would be within 5% on my trip times and fuel usage. :D
FF just does everything else, and I am too lazy to plug the trip into DUAT when I can get all the other info on FF. :D

dukeblue219 said:
I'd go with the lack of VNAV -- not on the approach, mind you, but for flight-planning use. Would be pretty nice to setup your plane with a certain climb/descent rate and airspeed profile for more precisely planning ETE and fuel burn, and for setting up different cruise altitudes for different portions of the flight. I'd also like to see a "profile view" showing your route vs terrain height along the way. AOPA's flight planner had this years ago when I used to use it.
Click to expand...
 
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dans2992 said:
2. Flight plans not synced between iPad and iPhone.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure they have this in the "Pro" version. Must be over WiFi.


Anyway, the biggest flaw to me is still that the charts aren't displayed in retina quality on retina devices, even though they are stored with that level of detail. I still don't understand the decision making process there. Memory issues? And that they "have no plans to implement" it.

I'm away from flying-in-the-US for a few months, when by happenstance my subscription will expire. Maybe I'll try Garmin for a bit when I get back and see if pretty vector maps are enough to switch me.
 
dans2992 said:
My beefs are:
2. Flight plans not synced between iPad and iPhone.
Click to expand...

mcmanigle said:
Pretty sure they have this in the "Pro" version. Must be over WiFi.
Click to expand...
Synching between devices works for me, and I only have the standard version. Both devices must be connected to the same wi-fi network. It will even work over the Stratus wi-fi connection in the airplane.

My only beefs with Foreflight are trivial, but they come up because I fly frequently between Portland and Phoenix. It won't display the 1:250,000 Portland Terminal Area inset (it's not a separate chart, rather an inset in the corner margin of the Seattle Sectional) or the Grand Canyon Special Flight Rules Area chart. It would be nice to have a georeferenced display in those narrow corridors.
 
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flyingcheesehead said:
Ron's right, though - Touch the map for a sec and hit "Details". There's all the info you're missing and then some. Pretty simple, and rarely needed, workaround.
Click to expand...
You mean like this:

ny9y9a9y.jpg
 
My 3 beefs with FF:

1) Cruise only fuel flow. Even your bottom rung apps have climb, cruise and descent.

2) Married to the ADS-B box. To be fair, Garmin has the same issue.

3) Won't import traffic information from a Zaon. Other apps, devices have been doing this forever. Garmin is like this also.
 
Sectional charts are designed from the start to be printed on a sheet of paper. Why on Earth does anyone want to use this format on an electronic display? It makes no sense.
 
Silvaire said:
Sectional charts are designed from the start to be printed on a sheet of paper. Why on Earth does anyone want to use this format on an electronic display? It makes no sense.
Click to expand...

Our chart plotter on the boat basically shows a paper chart on the screen too.;)
 
A paper sectional chart is the way it is because EVERY piece of information that it contains has to be there ALL the time and when you look at the chart at any given time 90% of what you see is of absolutely no use to you at that time for the purpose you are using it.

For an electronic display there is no need to do this. All of the information can still be there but only the information which is of use at that time need be displayed. This is why a small screened device such as your classic Garmin x96 handheld can be so effective so long as there is a simple and intuitive method of calling the needed information into view when you need it. For flight navigation and situational awareness there really is no need for a giant screen such as an iPad cluttered with superfluous information as you will have with an electronic map that mimics a paper sectional chart.

Face it, it's just a bunch of bling :popcorn:
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Ron's right, though - Touch the map for a sec and hit "Details". There's all the info you're missing and then some. Pretty simple, and rarely needed, workaround.
Click to expand...
Very true, (and obvious) but one must first recognize the error for that to be a useful tool. In the case of Flippin, the symbol is visible but the information is completely buried. There are five airports in the immediate area and Valley's information is listed right above Flippin's symbol so, if one is not familiar with the orientation of these fields, then one would likely think the info listed for Valley is actually that for Flippin.

I've seen other cases where the airport is completely buried under the fold, symbol, information, everything. KCVK for example...not far down the road from Flippin. You wouldn't even know it was there.
 
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Good ideas all. We invested heavily the last year and have a lot to show this year. Since half the dev team is pilots, we want lots of the stuff mentioned here (and I'm taking notes).

On chart collars, look at what we did for Canada, Heli, and Carribean enroutes: show and hide collars and change the stacking order. We invented and published a format for doing this. Those charts were new, so it was easier to do in the new format. I can imagine that tech and process being applied to the rest of the charts ...
 
Ron's right, though - Touch the map for a sec and hit "Details". There's all the info you're missing and then some. Pretty simple, and rarely needed, workaround.
Click to expand...

Can somebody explain this?

In the map function, I created a route from my location to KCVK, which I found is indeed totally hidden where the chart edges meet. So I tried touching the map for a second and nothing popped with the word "Details". Unless I tap an airport on the map, but that does not bring up a piece of sectional with the missing image. So what am I doing wrong?
 
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On my iPad (a 4), if I "long touch" where CVK should be, an "add to route" menu pops up giving me choices of nearby airports, nav aids and waypoints. CVK is on that list. Tap "more" to the right of CVK and then "details" and a mini airports page pops up. Tap "details" again and the full airport page pops up.
 
Brad Z said:
That's more a charting issue than a Foreflight flaw. My understanding is that AeroNav services is in the process of producing a digital product that is layered and continuous, so you don't have overlap and stitching issues on the edges of charts. I'm not sure when we'll see it though.
Click to expand...

That would be the ultimate solution. I hope they do it. As for it being a "flaw" in ForeFlight, I'll cut them some slack since I don't believe they piece together the charts (but I could be wrong.) As Ron pointed out, it's so easy to pull up the data (long press on the airport position) that I don't see it as a real limitation.
 
timwinters said:
On my iPad (a 4), if I "long touch" where CVK should be, an "add to route" menu pops up giving me choices of nearby airports, nav aids and waypoints. CVK is on that list. Tap "more" to the right of CVK and then "details" and a mini airports page pops up. Tap "details" again and the full airport page pops up.
Click to expand...

Ok, that provides some text with info that is in the hidden part of the sectional such as runway length and radio frequencies. However, it does not provide any images from the sectional showing other things needed to approach that airport safely, such as the presence of towers and terrain.

So I think it is a safety issue, if a pilot intends to fly to an airport that's hidden in the gaps, so to speak, without a paper chart to back up Foreflight.
 
My biggest issue is that you need a Pro subscription to get features that should be available in the standard subscription. I understand the concept of having a Premium subscription, but feel it should have stuff useful to Pro pilots and IFR fliers. Making terrain info and taxi diagrams part of the Pro subscription was just wrong. That stuff should be available for all users. WingX rightfully puts that stuff in their standard subscription.
 
It's biggest flaw is that it runs on iOS.
 
CT4ME said:
My biggest issue is that you need a Pro subscription to get features that should be available in the standard subscription. I understand the concept of having a Premium subscription, but feel it should have stuff useful to Pro pilots and IFR fliers. Making terrain info and taxi diagrams part of the Pro subscription was just wrong. That stuff should be available for all users. WingX rightfully puts that stuff in their standard subscription.
Click to expand...

I guess the easy answer to that is eliminate two subscriptions and just have one...at a $150. Which would still be a small fraction of the cost to keep the same info updated on any Garmin product.

Pilots are such cheap ********.
 
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Regarding my comment on the flightplans not syncing - I am talking about syncing all flightplans in the "File and Brief" sections between devices using iCloud.

A flight could be planned on the iPad, ready to file. When heading for the airport, the departure time could be updated on the iPhone, press the "File" button and you're all set.

Currently, this process is a bit cumbersome and involves emailing yourself the flight plan, etc.
 
Lack of VNAV? Synthetic vision? Do you guys want a gimmick or a useful tool? The GPS altitude information is always incorrect, sometimes as high as 1,000 or more.

I would love to see:

1. 1st, 2nd, and 3rd hour fuel burn values for aircraft that need that.
2. fltplan.com integration which according to fltplan.com will not happen, that is a shame.
3. I hate gov IFR charts, Jepp integration would be great.
 
But many of us hate Jepp...on numerous levels and fronts.
 
timwinters said:
But many of us hate Jepp...on numerous levels and fronts.
Click to expand...

I'm sure gov't charts will always be the default, since Jepps are generally much more expensive - However, for those who prefer them, allowing them for an extra cost would be nice.

However, I doubt Jepp would let that happen - They'd much rather you use their app.
 
I wish the menu bar on the bottom of the screen ( to navigate between FF main pages) were relocatable to the top of the screen I use my ipad in portrait and the buttons on the top of the screen are simply easier to accurately get to, whereas I miss the buttons along the bottom quite a bit.
 
radioguy01 said:
I would love to see some type of synthetic vision in foreflight. Even just for the gimmick of it.
Click to expand...

+1. Specially with a Stratus 2 with built-in AHRS this should be perfectly doable. I would likely run synthetic vision on the iPhone with Foreflight on the iPad.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
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My biggest complaint is the lack of customization for font sizes and color.

Specifically on the Airports favorite page.
Currently I load the airports in my flight path and use the stratus ADSB to keep current on METAR info while flying that route.

But on an Ipad mini with a glare screen protector daytime in a cockpit thats bouncing around makes it difficult to read the small gray font on both the favorites and the selected airport. Need a MAKE bigger and DARKER button for those days its bumpy.

This was not a problem on the full size ipad, buts a little bit of an issue on the mini.

Second biggest complaint (and maybe I just dont know where the button is) the A/FD is in this little box down in the corner but it would be nice to make it full size on the full screen so I can read the full page width on the mini. just like a plate.
 
NoHeat said:
Ok, that provides some text with info that is in the hidden part of the sectional such as runway length and radio frequencies. However, it does not provide any images from the sectional showing other things needed to approach that airport safely, such as the presence of towers and terrain.

So I think it is a safety issue, if a pilot intends to fly to an airport that's hidden in the gaps, so to speak, without a paper chart to back up Foreflight.
Click to expand...
what are you talking about? what is shown on the paper chart is excatly what is shown on the ipad screen. What is on the margins of the chart is readily accessible elsewhere.
 
JHW said:
what are you talking about? what is shown on the paper chart is excatly what is shown on the ipad screen.
Click to expand...

Okay, find KCVK on the sectional in ForeFlight for me and post the screen shot here. I'll wait.
 
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