Challenged
Pattern Altitude
Situation: When flying a retractable gear airplane, and you need to make a forced off-airport landing, in what terrain and conditions (environment and/or airplane) would you land with the gear up, as opposed to down?
Situation: When flying a retractable gear airplane, and you need to make a forced off-airport landing, in what terrain and conditions (environment and/or airplane) would you land with the gear up, as opposed to down?
Do you mean groomed turf fields? Other than sod farms, every pasture, open field, or meadow I have seen is not near as smooth as it looks. Usually there are hidden dangers even for trucks or ATVs.Anything approaching a reasonable field would be gear down for me, but the navion gear is pretty stout (and big tires) and I land on grass all the time.
Just offhand I would land gear up in water or swamp, down everywhere else.
Not to my knowledge. The week parts in the nose gear are primarily in the retract linkage and a few faults (especially on those that have been geared up in the past) in the top of the fork (where the big hole is to attach it to the gear leg).I seem to recall Navions have a history of problems with the nose wheel trunion. I don't recall if that extends across all models and all Rangemasters.
Not only that, but at least in the Cardinal, that big nosegear door in the wind helps to dissipate energy long before the impact. Anytime speed is a liability, it's gear down for me -- with the exception of a ditching, to lessen the chances of getting flipped.I don't care about ripping the gear off, that's just more energy absorbed by something other than me.
Absent of testing for forced landings, isn't the POH recommendation a canned answer? Ok, so it is a recommendation made by someone smarter than me but on what basis is the recommendation made?I don't have any canned answers. I start by knowing the recommendations in the POH for that aircraft, then I apply those recommendations to the conditions at hand and make my decision accordingly.
Gear door or not, every wing has a Vso.Not only that, but at least in the Cardinal, that big nosegear door in the wind helps to dissipate energy long before the impact. Anytime speed is a liability, it's gear down for me -- with the exception of a ditching, to lessen the chances of getting flipped.
The AFM says for the CE-680 says, in a CYA move:Absent of testing for forced landings, isn't the POH recommendation a canned answer? Ok, so it is a recommendation made by someone smarter than me but on what basis is the recommendation made?
Depends on the surface that touchdown will occur in! B)
Sod Farm=Down
Road=Down
Trees=Up
Corn=up
Water=up
Rough Fields= Flip a coin, prolly up
Yes, and so ??Gear door or not, every wing has a Vso.
Situation: When flying a retractable gear airplane, and you need to make a forced off-airport landing, in what terrain and conditions (environment and/or airplane) would you land with the gear up, as opposed to down?
My point was a gear door can help you get to Vso at a faster rate but you're no longer flying below Vso. I'd much rather fly into a forced landing than drop in.Yes, and so ??
Fly an RV you better worry about it. Don't RVs make forced landings as often as overhead breaks?Fly a fixed gear RV and then you don't have to worry about it!
Okay, you guys knew it was coming..... didn't you?
If it aint ment to be landed or driven on gear up.
I have insurance for a reason and have made the decision that it's the insurance company's plane as soon as something goes wrong.
I dont care one bit how badly I hurt it so longs as I'm ok.
So would I and I'm not advocating stalling the plane before the last few seconds. But when the time comes, the quicker I can get down to minimum controllable airspeed the better, and having less speed to dissipate in the final seconds seems like a plus to me. Maybe I'm wrong, it wouldn't be the first time.My point was a gear door can help you get to Vso at a faster rate but you're no longer flying below Vso. I'd much rather fly into a forced landing than drop in.
The local wisdom would add:Depends on the surface that touchdown will occur in! B)
Sod Farm=Down
Road=Down
Trees=Up
Corn=up
Water=up
Rough Fields= Flip a coin, prolly up
The local wisdom would add:
Soybeans=UP
One thing to consider is that we rarely practice gear up landings so things will seem rather different in terms of drag, touchdown sight picture, and control once down if you put it down with the gear up. I also favor the notion that the gear will absorb a lot more vertical energy if the ground isn't nice and flat. If you've ever "crashed" while skiing fast through moguls I think you can appreciate the difference between taking the bumps by flexing your legs vs the soft tissue behind your pelvis (or worse yet on your chest).Not only that, but at least in the Cardinal, that big nosegear door in the wind helps to dissipate energy long before the impact. Anytime speed is a liability, it's gear down for me -- with the exception of a ditching, to lessen the chances of getting flipped.
Not true if the landing surface isn't flat and flatness is difficult to judge from the air with some ground covers. Hitting a 2 ft high berm with the fuselage while traveling forward at 50 Kt is going to give you something like a 20-25g hit on your backside. With the gear down it should be more like 3-5g and it will kill a significant amount of forward energy whether or not the gear legs get ripped off.lance your vertical energy should be no greater in a forced landing than during a normal landing. I'd be much more worried about the extended gears effect on your horizontal motion (i.e. translating horizontal motion into rotation) than it being a vertical "crumple zone"
Not true if the landing surface isn't flat and flatness is difficult to judge from the air with some ground covers. Hitting a 2 ft high berm with the fuselage while traveling forward at 50 Kt is going to give you something like a 20-25g hit on your backside. With the gear down it should be more like 3-5g and it will kill a significant amount of forward energy whether or not the gear legs get ripped off.
Fly an RV you better worry about it. Don't RVs make forced landings as often as overhead breaks?
You knew that was coming...didn't you?
I'll second that. I'm all for having something other than me absorb a bunch of excess energy.I don't care about ripping the gear off, that's just more energy absorbed by something other than me. I do care about being tumbled, so for ditchings I'd leave it up.
+1 for all except rough fields. I'd want the gear to take away some energy before all those rocks etc start ripping through the cabin.Depends on the surface that touchdown will occur in! B)
Sod Farm=Down
Road=Down
Trees=Up
Corn=up
Water=up
Rough Fields= Flip a coin, prolly up
+1 for all except rough fields. I'd want the gear to take away some energy before all those rocks etc start ripping through the cabin.
To this list I'd add gear up into a bean field. But if you can tell it's a bean field when you're far enough for it to matter you have better eyesight than me!