For Toby

Diana

Diana

Final Approach
Joined
Feb 21, 2005
Messages
6,163
Location
Southwest MO
Display Name
Display name:
Diana
Toby received some bad news about a friend of hers who was involved in an accident. He was her flight instructor and they spent a lot of time together working on her aerobatic skills. In the past she frequently posted here about flying with him. Vinny was a wonderful person, a very good CFI and an accomplished pilot. He spent several hours giving me spin ground instruction (when I was staying with Toby) and explained it in a way that I could understand. Flying with him was a pleasure and I enjoyed him as a CFI. He was a special gentleman.

I know that Toby would appreciate hearing from her friends here as she is trying to deal with this.
 
There's a reason you're speaking of him in the past tense? I kinda need to know what sort of support Toby needs, here... :)

Thanks -
 
etsisk said:
There's a reason you're speaking of him in the past tense? I kinda need to know what sort of support Toby needs, here... :)

Thanks -
Click to expand...
He was killed in a plane crash at Rhinebeck. :(
 
thats got to be tough, my thoughts are with everyone involved.
 
So sorry for the loss.
Please know you and Toby and his family are in my families prayers.

Mark B
 
:(

No one gets out alive, though...and I mean that objectively...

Take care Toby, it's a hole in our heart that will never fully be refilled, but celebrate the life led.
 
Diana, thank you for thinking of me and for this beautiful message.
 
No one gets out alive, but what is the point of this death? This was a man whose mantra was to never get too low or too slow, know your limits, don't be stupid, don't take chances, live to be old, etc etc etc!! This is someone who used to talk to me endlessly about airshow pilots and acts that were disasters waiting to happen. How can 4 planes fly around together without choreography, without planning, without communication?? You have an ooops, and people are dead.

He said to me that he would never do maneuvers below the altitude that it takes to recover from a stall. He shook his head at those acts - actually he was pretty blunt about how he felt about them.

I was afraid every time we flew. He knew that about me, he knew that was why I was doing aerobatics. I must have done 50 spins with Vinny. I put my trust, my life in his hands. I was doing the flying, but he was there to save my ass if I screwed up. One time I did. I did something stupid - it's probably in the old threads here somewhere – and I wound up in an inverted dive. Oh my God. We were at redline in a few seconds. He recovered us. And then I got a lecture all the way back to the airport, all about learning what to do and then decisively doing it. But basically he saved us.

But this one time we were talking about a woman who was from my area, who learned how to fly when she was in her 40’s about, and who went on to aerobatics and started attending contests and was all gung-ho until she decided to do a practice spin on her way to a contest and spun herself into the ground. And I said Vinny, I don’t want to end up like that. And he said, you’re not going to end up like that. You have a very different personality. She was not thinking about things like you do, she was over-confident and she liked the attention and she also didn’t know her plane very well, and she put herself in a situation that she was not equal to. You’re not going to do that. It is incomprehensible to me now that this same man who preached caution and safety and made it his life’s MISSION should now go down that same dark path. How could he? Did he not think that maybe his life held value for all the people around him who counted on him to be a voice of sanity??
 
Toby,

I'm truly sorry that you've lost a friend, teacher and mentor.

May I caution patience? We don't know what caused this crash; perhaps we never will. But perhaps we'll find that it was mechanical, something that doomed him the moment it happened. Very bad things do happen to very good people. We all know that but it's hard to internalize and we're often left asking "Why?", as you do when you ask how he could go down that dark path and, in so doing, come close to asking the thing that's always on our minds: could this happen to us?

He may have done every single thing exactly correctly. He may have had no chance to alter this outcome. Some accidents are just not going to have a good outcome and we have to accept that -- really accept it -- or risk being paralyzed in the cockpit.

Time will help, I think, for it often does. With time, we can reflect back on the person we knew and liked and trusted and see them for who they really were, rather than in the glaring light of a single moment. While waiting for time to work its small miracle, perhaps you might try to figure out what he would recommend that you do at this point, how you should view this terrible turn of events and how, as a pilot, you should consider it in light of your own flying. It sounds as if he was a terrific instructor; I can't see how he could possibly have wanted his own death to lack meaning or not be instructive.

Again, I'm very, very sorry for your loss.
 
Toby I understand your anger, fear and frustration its only natural. but Glen is right we don't know yet what happened, so don't assume he violated his own rules. Time will tell until then remember the lessons he taught you. My thoughts are with you.
 
Crosspost from the Old Rhinebeck thread:

It is very sad to lose an aviation mentor. Very, very sad indeed, as we have trusted them with our lives. Indeed mine saved my bacon at least once.... and that time, it was just wise advice.

They are held in such high regard that upon the retirement of mine, 36 once junior officers made the trek from across the country to hold his retirement party, as an O-6. Two of them had made it into the admiralty.

It's a crushing loss, Toby....as here is a man who held your life in his hands, and this will not go away. Rather it will occupy a somewhat fond, tender spot therein for all the days we have memory.
 
For Toby, Diana and Everyone who knew Vincent,

My thoughts go out to all of you in this dark time of reflection. I would love to know how we could also celebrate his life, and passion for flying.
Not only his enjoyment of flying, but his enjoyment is passing it on to others, and yes, all of his students. In the air and on the ground.

Our club is planning on going to Rhinebeck this year, and I look forward to any suggestions and requests of how we can celebrate an aviation life fulfilled at Rhinebeck.
 
Hey, Toby - I know you're hurtin', girl. How could you not be? :confused: And I know you know - but may not remember right this second - that when we're hurting, we're angry. Sometimes we direct it out, sometimes in - the good thing is, it doesn't matter, 'cause in time it will change to pure sorrow and that's what's waiting to be dealt with.

The thing about all this flying stuff is, we can do everything right and still have a bad outcome. Now isn't the time for conjecture, from us here in the peanut gallery OR from those of you who loved him, personally. Time and work will give us the answers you're needing right now. All you have to do is embrace the patience required to wait for it.

You remember that we love you, right? Right? :yes:
 
Toby , it's all been said here,and i too am sorry for your lose.
Dave G.
 
Everyone, thank you for your thoughts...I'm sorry I just lashed out there, I was very upset last night and couldn't make any sense of anything, I still can't, and I don't know what to think....he is so highly respected here, by everyone. I go to him for everything flying-related. If I have a question about any aspect of flight, he's the one I ask. When I had my prop strike, I called him first to find out what to do. When I wanted to talk about my goals, I went to him. I went to him for my flight review. I was going to get my IR with him. I wanted him to read the flying scenes in my book and check them for accuracy. All kinds of things. Of all the pilots I know -- his flying style, his instincts, were the ones I wished to emulate. And I told him so.

He was the one who -- when I asked one day if we could land on the grass -- said of course! He gave me my tailwheel endorsement. I will never forget the joy of that day -- coming back from another lesson, doing a bunch of wheel landings and 3-points and feeling good as I steered us back to the hangar, and with the smallest smile and without saying a word he cracked open my logbook to the back and signed me off. What a thrill. He made me work hard for that sign-off.

When I had my flight review with him last August he was more hands-off as far as giving me direction than he used to be during lessons. It was because I was more confident than I had been, and also because I lucked out and had a good day and didn’t screw anything up! But we did some different landings and I saved them all, and we shut down and were standing next to my plane and I tried to pay him and he refused to take it. He told me to pay him back by going out in the next few days and practicing landings, because I would only get better and better. He gave me a big smile and told me to call him if I ever wanted to go up and work on anything, and that if I love flying I should never give it up.
 
Toby,

I am speechless. Well you know how I feel.
 
Toby said:
...Of all the pilots I know -- his flying style, his instincts, were the ones I wished to emulate. And I told him so...
Click to expand...
And that right there is the best gift that either of you could have gotten...


remember that and smile when ya can, Toby. I would bet dollars to donuts that's what he did when he remembered it. And I'd bet he remembered it often. :)
 
Toby said:
He gave me a big smile and told me... that if I love flying I should never give it up.
Click to expand...

And there, I suspect, is the short answer to how he would want you to remember him. :)

Teachers and mentors and parents die and, when they do, they leave holes behind; sometimes big, gaping holes that take a long, long time to fill in. But they always want the same thing for those they leave behind: that they be happy, that they remember them with a smile on their face instead of a tear in their eye, and that they remember the lessons and the wisdom that were passed on.

Perhaps the best way you can honor this man is to take his wisdom to heart and use it to help you continue to take joy from flying as best as you possibly can.

You have my deepest sympathy, Toby. This road in front of you is steep right now, but not so steep that you cannot climb it.
 
Toby - I'm so sorry to hear of your loss ... I'm at a loss for words, except "I'm sorry"
 
Toby said:
It is incomprehensible to me now that this same man who preached caution and safety and made it his life’s MISSION should now go down that same dark path. How could he? Did he not think that maybe his life held value for all the people around him who counted on him to be a voice of sanity??
Click to expand...

Well, I've always been a fatalist, and the answer from a fatalistic point of view is "He couldn't not do it". While our lives may hold value to those around us, that does not trump the value it has to us, nor does that even slightly influence the fact that we will die. Why did he do this particular thing? Probably because he wanted to, and in my book, that ain't all that bad of a way to go. With very few exceptions, none of us knows the time or even circumstances of our death, yet we all know we will die, even if we hold that thought in the abstract. I've had several friends and colleagues die. Watched one crash in the field next to me, and I knew he was dead. He however loved his job, he had more fun at it than anyone I know (and was good at it) and he always pushed it harder to get more acres per hour. One day he pulled a turn too tight. I was sad, but I never felt bad for him. His death was quick I'm sure, and he had the opportunity to love life, and he took it and ran with it.

We often get angry with those that die and leave us, but it's a selfish anger and we get over it, hopefully realizing, that one day, it'll be us and I know I wouldn't want a buch of p-ed off people when I die (most people will probably rejoyce.:D). Rather than focussing on what you have lost from this persons death, concentrate on what you have gained from their life, and every now and then head to the airport around sunset, face west, have a drink and think about them. In the end, that's all you can do.

All we really have in life is our memories, actually, they define our lives and set the stage for how we react to things. What do you want your memories to be?
 
Toby

I rarely write to one who has lost a mentor. I had quite a lot who I put all must trust in when I was young and an asa "Airport Kid" . Henning says it so well and I really apprecitate his comments. I learned some very hard pain many years ago when I was a young pilot. I decided that I would learn the good things from my mentors who had "Gone West" . Let youself sort it through and time and distance will help.

John J
 
Toby,

You have my heartfelt sympathy. Your anger is understandable, but I ask you to put it aside - if it turns out that the incident was due to circumstances beyond his control, you'll regret the anger. Especially in a case like this, where a very old airplane was being flown, it's important to wait until the facts are known.

Best wishes,
 
Toby,

I echo the sentiments of many here - I am SO sorry for your loss and all those who knew him. I'm sorry for the loss of all those who will never have the privilege to meet such a fine gentleman and aviator.

Take my advice worth a grain of salt as a seasoned 28 yr. old - let out whatever feelings you are having: anger, fear, sadness, grief. Don't hold them in. I lost a grandmother who was very dear to me just a couple of years ago. I wanted to be strong for my dad so I really didn't cry or express any emotion. I gotta tell you, it didn't serve me well. I visited her grave this year during Oshkosh and just broke down right there - introduced her to the great-grandson she never got to meet and couldn't stop the flood of tears. Let it out - we are all here to support you and appreciate so much the joy YOU have brought to all our lives! :D
 
Every day, it is important to have even the smallest amount of fun. EVERY day.
 
Toby,

Our condolences on the loss of a dear friend and mentor. Take hold of the fond memories you have and cherish those, I'm sure that is what he would have wanted you to do.

I'd like the memory of me to be a happy one, I'd like to leave an afterglow of smiles when the day is gone. I'd like to leave an echo whispering softly down the ways, of happy times and laughing times and bright and sunny days. I'd like the tears of those who grieve to dry before the sun, of happy memories that I leave when life is done.

You will be in our thoughts and prayers,

Gary & Mary
 
Henning,

I agree with your thoughts. It helps to read them instead of swirling them in the mishmosh of what is my mind this week, where they never stay in focus. About every half hour these past few days my train of thought runs off the track and I have to go back and read your thoughts and other people's on this page.

All we really have in life is our memories, actually, they define our lives and set the stage for how we react to things. What do you want your memories to be?
Click to expand...

Where is the looking-ahead part? Hope? I think hope defines our lives as much as memories, and gives us purpose. At the same time, I think dashed hopes are what cause the greatest misery. They just have to be converted into something else, something positive, when a person is ready.
 
To everyone who posted here, I very much appreciate your reaching out. I've read every word on this page many times.
 
By the way Toby as I've said at to many funerals to friends. Its great to see you I'm sorry its for such crummy circumstances. Hope you start hanging out here again and I'll look forward to happier posts from you.
 
Toby,

I as I read all your posts I can totally relate. All the things you are thinking and feeling are totally natureal. The only thing I can offer that hasn't already been said is, this too shall pass. It did for me and I'm sure it will for you. I wish there was more to say but there just isn't.

Good thought for you as you work through this.

Missa
 
Toby said:
Henning,

I agree with your thoughts. It helps to read them instead of swirling them in the mishmosh of what is my mind this week, where they never stay in focus. About every half hour these past few days my train of thought runs off the track and I have to go back and read your thoughts and other people's on this page.



Where is the looking-ahead part? Hope? I think hope defines our lives as much as memories, and gives us purpose. At the same time, I think dashed hopes are what cause the greatest misery. They just have to be converted into something else, something positive, when a person is ready.
Click to expand...


Looking ahead defines who we want to be, and for that, hope is essential for a good result, but at the end, there's only memories left.
 
My best friend knew your instructor toby and he told me about what an incredible human being he was. He passed along knowledge to you and to others and will live through that. Keep flying.
 
Missa said:
Toby,

I as I read all your posts I can totally relate. All the things you are thinking and feeling are totally natureal. The only thing I can offer that hasn't already been said is, this too shall pass. It did for me and I'm sure it will for you. I wish there was more to say but there just isn't.

Good thought for you as you work through this.

Missa
Click to expand...
Toby,
I think I disagree with Missa about the "passing" portion, but certainly agree about it being natural. This won't "pass", because he'll always be in your thoughts and in your flying. What I think will happen is that it'll become easier to deal with, and it won't consume as much of your conscious thought. You'll ALWAYS remember him, though. And that's a good thing, because he was a wonderful person who taught you a lot of valuable lessons.
 
gprellwitz said:
Toby,
I think I disagree with Missa about the "passing" portion, but certainly agree about it being natural. This won't "pass", because he'll always be in your thoughts and in your flying. What I think will happen is that it'll become easier to deal with, and it won't consume as much of your conscious thought. You'll ALWAYS remember him, though. And that's a good thing, because he was a wonderful person who taught you a lot of valuable lessons.
Click to expand...

I still remember Geno... little things still bring him to mind evey now and then. It's just the active mourning that will pass.
 
Missa said:
I still remember Geno... little things still bring him to mind evey now and then. It's just the active mourning that will pass.
Click to expand...
:yes: A toast to Gino, Vinny, Bob, and all the other fine aviators who've taught us so much and who have influenced us in the best ways possible! :cheerswine:
 
Last edited:
Toby, I can't really add to all that has been said here, except to say that you have my heartfelt condolences as well.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top