For reasons of national security, please kindly don't fly so low

ArrowFlyer86

ArrowFlyer86

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The Little Arrow That Could
I'm planning a XC trip south for summer and thought about stopping by Augusta GA (never been, only heard of it from golf). Then I saw this airspace pictured below and it made me curious.

Naturally I google around and learn about the Georgia Cryptologic Center and Fort Gordon (cool stuff), which appear to be on the west side of the city. But nothing of consequence appeared to be on the east side.


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In my limited experience, it's rare to see "for reasons of national security" and a polite "requested" in the same sentence. Do many of these areas exist? Is there a rationale for not making them restricted areas with a ceiling of 2k or something? Not accustomed to seeing them in the midwest (but when I was day dreaming about flying in Hawaii I did see a similar one out there). What kind of stuff is this to protect: military bases? Alien crash sites :eek:?
 
Tspin said:
I believe that is the Savanah River Site. Lots of nuclear research.
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Oh boy, well that would explain it! I was thinking it might be all those towers the area covers given the nature of the NSAs work.
 
Gotta wonder if it's so important to national security why it isn't a restricted area. Although I suppose a polite request opens the door for situations where you kinda need to....
 
ArrowFlyer86 said:
I'm planning a XC trip south for summer and thought about stopping by Augusta GA (never been, only heard of it from golf). Then I saw this airspace pictured below and it made me curious.

Naturally I google around and learn about the Georgia Cryptologic Center and Fort Gordon (cool stuff), which appear to be on the west side of the city. But nothing of consequence appeared to be on the east side.


View attachment 118816
In my limited experience, it's rare to see "for reasons of national security" and a polite "requested" in the same sentence. Do many of these areas exist? Is there a rationale for not making them restricted areas with a ceiling of 2k or something? Not accustomed to seeing them in the midwest (but when I was day dreaming about flying in Hawaii I did see a similar one out there). What kind of stuff is this to protect: military bases? Alien crash sites :eek:?
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There's one near 0S9. It's about the Indian Island Naval Magazine. Nuclear submarine missiles is my guess.
 
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cowman said:
Gotta wonder if it's so important to national security why it isn't a restricted area. Although I suppose a polite request opens the door for situations where you kinda need to....
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Yeah. Seems like a kinda cavalier attitude about national security.
 
The polite request is the opposite of when I was visiting Beale AFB 10 years ago. They made it abundantly clear that "for reasons of national security" if you planned to take your vehicle any closer to the PAVE PAWS than "requested" that you should also have prior funeral arrangements made.

That was my first introduction to the theme that anything that starts with "for reasons of national security" usually ends up sounding less... optional.
 
As stated above, Savannah River Site. Just storage of nuclear material now. Used to drive past it a lot back in the 90s.
 
ArrowFlyer86 said:
The polite request is the opposite of when I was visiting Beale AFB 10 years ago. They made it abundantly clear that "for reasons of national security" if you planned to take your vehicle any closer to the PAVE PAWS than "requested" that you should also have prior funeral arrangements made.

That was my first introduction to the theme that anything that starts with "for reasons of national security" usually ends up sounding less... optional.
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In the case of PAVE PAWS won't that thing microwave you like a frozen dinner if you get too close?
 
Todd82 said:
In the case of PAVE PAWS won't that thing microwave you like a frozen dinner if you get too close?
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whatever the radar was in Oregon near one of our low levels was it had a note on the chart. “Warning flight within 1 mile mat detonate ordnance”. They then made some sub points on that route to give it a suitable space.
 
Lawrence Livermore National Labs (LLNL), just east of LVK has the same warning over their main campus. The area where they do their 'energetic' research is in R-2531.
 
Isn't there a similar one for Fort Knox or does it have a restricted? Too lazy to look.
 
Pugs said:
whatever the radar was in Oregon near one of our low levels was it had a note on the chart. “Warning flight within 1 mile mat detonate ordnance”. They then made some sub points on that route to give it a suitable space.
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yet the DOD insists radar isn't carcinogenic because wavelength potato. And the VA keeps laughing in *not service connected*
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
Isn't there a similar one for Fort Knox or does it have a restricted? Too lazy to look.
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It's a restricted. I think devils tower of all places uses the "national security" verbiage.
 
Devils Tower is "For reasons of National Welfare"
What does that even mean?
 
Maybe they are worried that flying low would be a distraction and might cause an "Ooops!" moment for someone.
Tongue firmly in cheek.
 
Same reason as this one...
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This one...
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and this one...
1689005756933.png
 
hindsight2020 said:
yet the DOD insists radar isn't carcinogenic because wavelength potato. And the VA keeps laughing in *not service connected*
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It isn't. MANY studies on that.

It will cook you if high enough power density.
 
On one of my dual XC flights in 1979, we went to Harrisburg, PA. Talking to approach, the stated "stay away from TMI."

NO IDEA what they were talking about. Controller got testy that I did not know that it meant Three Mile Island. The incident was a few months before.
 
Of course there’s one over the infamous Oak Ridge site in NW Knoxville area as well.
 
Pinecone said:
On one of my dual XC flights in 1979, we went to Harrisburg, PA. Talking to approach, the stated "stay away from TMI."

NO IDEA what they were talking about. Controller got testy that I did not know that it meant Three Mile Island. The incident was a few months before.
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Meanwhile the missed on the LOC 28 at KPTW makes you get within some half mile Limerick Generating Station. Remember shooting that under the foggles on a hot summer day in the 150 and my non-IR safety pilot father asking “you sure this is right?” It was but damn we got close.
 
The FAA doesn’t define “requested” the way a normal person would define it.
They mean that another agency has as requested that the FAA notify pilots stay out of airspace that has been given (usually by congress) to an another agency.

In practice what this means is the letter you get with your fine or other legal proceedings for violating the airspace will not be on FAA Letterhead. Instead it will be NSA, BLM, NPS, etc… on the letterhead

Brian
 
brcase said:
The FAA doesn’t define “requested” the way a normal person would define it.
They mean that another agency has as requested that the FAA notify pilots stay out of airspace that has been given (usually by congress) to an another agency.

In practice what this means is the letter you get with your fine or other legal proceedings for violating the airspace will not be on FAA Letterhead. Instead it will be NSA, BLM, NPS, etc… on the letterhead

Brian
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I have this strange feeling that if the NSA wants to punish you it won't be in the form of a well written note on their letterhead.
 
cowman said:
Gotta wonder if it's so important to national security why it isn't a restricted area. Although I suppose a polite request opens the door for situations where you kinda need to....
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Garmins flite charts don’t distinguish between the two, no verbiage,they just show all these as restricted airspace.
 
ArrowFlyer86 said:
I'm planning a XC trip south for summer and thought about stopping by Augusta GA (never been, only heard of it from golf). Then I saw this airspace pictured below and it made me curious.

Naturally I google around and learn about the Georgia Cryptologic Center and Fort Gordon (cool stuff), which appear to be on the west side of the city. But nothing of consequence appeared to be on the east side.


View attachment 118816
In my limited experience, it's rare to see "for reasons of national security" and a polite "requested" in the same sentence. Do many of these areas exist? Is there a rationale for not making them restricted areas with a ceiling of 2k or something? Not accustomed to seeing them in the midwest (but when I was day dreaming about flying in Hawaii I did see a similar one out there). What kind of stuff is this to protect: military bases? Alien crash sites :eek:?
Click to expand...

Yes the Savannah River Nuclear Plant is there. There are often huge billowing clouds of steam which could be a problem for VFR flying, and of course the presence of radioactive material, and radioactive waste (which is the main emphasis of the plant these days) makes it a potential target for a strike that could be quite catastrophic.
 
I've flown over the one in Idaho NW of Idaho Falls many times. But have always respected the "request". I have been told that while driving through there if you stop for any length of time that you will get a visit from black Suburbans.
 
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