For all the classic bo flyers....

sferguson524

sferguson524

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FormerSocalFlyer
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I am thinking about getting into a 47 bonanza partnership. Guy here is selling a share in his plane. Any gotchas on flying it? I have about 200 hrs, and 70 of that is retract time. And go.
 
Flying it is easy. Watch the prop ADs when you buy it though.
 
My last communication with the seller was asking him for scans of the logs, including serial numbers for the Airframe, Engine, and Prop
 
Yup, easy flyers. If you can land a Cessna SE you can land any old Bo. Maint and servicing are the issues with them. Check the spar carrythrough. Many of the old ones still have the tube 'bird cage' design. Better if it's been upgraded to the box beam structure. There's a lot of other 'gotchas' but that's a start on the 47 model foibles.
 
sferguson524 said:
I am thinking about getting into a 47 bonanza partnership. Guy here is selling a share in his plane. Any gotchas on flying it? I have about 200 hrs, and 70 of that is retract time. And go.
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Flying them is a non issue. The issue with the old ones is the equipment list. Some of the engine/prop combos have some parts issues, although as with everything, people still manage to keep them in service, so they are out there. Many of the old planes still have shotgun panels and old radios.

OTOH, some of them have been upgraded through the years and are fine fliers in the modern era. Panels can be upgraded in any year plane.

There are so many variables involved it's impossible to make a specific comment, but in general, go for it. If it fits your desires and is a good plane at a good deal, there's no reason to run strictly on the point of it being a 47. Condition, condition, condition, it's all about condition of the plane. There are 47s I would rather fly than 77s.
 
As i get more photos, I will post them. Hoping to meet with the seller in the next week or 2 and take a spin around the patch, maybe off to do some airwork. Sadly he doesnt have scans of the logs, so when i meet with him i will ask for the logs to be present so i can take pictures.
 
sferguson524 said:
As i get more photos, I will post them. Hoping to meet with the seller in the next week or 2 and take a spin around the patch, maybe off to do some airwork. Sadly he doesnt have scans of the logs, so when i meet with him i will ask for the logs to be present so i can take pictures.
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If it's a meet and greet and check out the airplane, I wouldn't worry about seeing logs just yet, plenty of time for that. I would just note if he does or doesn't have them there on the "Do we fit as partners?" part of the evaluation. You aren't just buying into a plane, you are buying into a relationship, and this is as or more important to get a clear assesment of than the plane.

Just take your time to get to know him and the plane. Spend your time looking at the plane, grabbing things and feeling them, and talking to him; why is he taking a partner, what are his plans for the future of the plane, how does he feel about doing upgrades that you would like to do?

Two little details I check when I first walk up on a Bonanza. On the gear there is a roller bearing visible, it is the Up Lock Roller, there is an AD on them to grease them at annual because if they seize, the gear can hang up. The other is right there as well and there is a spring that pulls on a little brace on the gear, if this spring breaks, that brace will go through the top of the wing on gear retraction.

You would be amazed how often I find that bearing seized up, or that spring rusted away. I just thank the person for their time at that point and leave.
 
Henning,

That's good info right there. If we go flying, i will definitely preflight like that plane is trying to kill me..
 
dang. Shoulda made a ride in that sucker part of the ipad deal...:D

If you are on the Red Board a guy over there bought a 48 V tail with the E engine a couple years ago. There are some good threads and he could probably point out more stuff.

I think his outright was about $30-35K.

Good luck.
 
If his initials are ML, and it's who I'm thinking of, he's a great owner and would make an excellent partner.
 
sferguson524 said:
Mike, No, his initials are gc
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Don't think I know him -- but my guy bases at VNY and is looking for a partner in a straight 35 also. Might be too far to make work, but who knows.

I can't think of any GCs that own straight 35s. Issues that are strange with the 1947 Bos are the castering nosewheel, and the maladies of the E-series engines and spline-shaft propellers. If it has an "MV" Hartzell prop, then it is at least free of an irritating repeat AD

They're fun to fly, but they're very "classic" in a lot of ways. The plane is nudging up on 70 years old, so there is a whole range of possible gotchas :) Get a prebuy :D
 
I'm still a socal boy at heart. Even still, i was based at F70 when i lived there.
 
The Bo has to be one of the easiest planes I've flown.....

Those older years could produce some difficult repairs.....especially finding replacement parts. But, it sounds like a nice economical arrangement.
 
The old Bonanzas need an understanding, mechanically savvy owner who isn't in a rush. I haven't had any issues finding parts for them but you'll likely find that there is only one parts source for certain items. It is wise to be aware of who does what work on the components on these planes so you can direct your mechanic on where you want them to go. If you leave it up to the mechanic you may get an expensive ride unless they're familiar with the old Bonanzas and their engines and props. Admittedly, I did have an 8 month period of downtime when I was going through some prop issues and was waiting for parts. I probably could have had it in the air quicker but at a greatly increased cost to me.

The early Bonanzas are one of the nicest and easiest planes I've flown. I think you'll enjoy it.
 
I own a 1960 Bo. I wouldn't be interested in one much older than mine. make sure you have a mechanic who knows them and is willing to work on it.
 
Well, my experience has been pretty different than others. I find the old Bo parts are really easy to find with the exception of a few critical bits. You can find them in every junk yard in the country, and plenty of aftermarket support too.

Now, the exceptions are the pitch change bearing for the elec prop, and the blades. If you want a new sector gear for the retract, you are gonna pay, but if you want the whole gearbox with a sector gear inside, it's about $3-500 for a working one.

Also, most of the wear items on the Bonanza are sourced from standard stock items. The retract motor is also used on Buick and Hudson wipers, the bearings in the center pivot yoke are standard SKF bearings, the cables are standard size and can have ends swaged as needed. Nothing fancy except the door latch, hinges, and some other exotic bits inside the E series engine. Lucky me, I have two engines sitting on pallets with good cams, all I need are bearings and jugs from an O-470R and good to go.

The splined crankshaft is going to be the death knell eventually. There are two STCs for swapping in an O-470 engine but they are rather pricey right now. Hopefully another engine STC will come avail for reasonable money. Hey, that sounds like a good summer project!
 
All, I can't begin to thank you for your insight. I am going to go into this with both eyes open, and attempt to make a sound decision. Hopefully if all works out well I can take ya'll for a ride
 
Make sure there is a clear, defined, exit strategy if the partnership dissolves for whatever reasons in that contract.
 
Good point Henning.. I may offer up a non equity partnership for a period of time to feel each other out, he's only flying 70 hours a year, so the airplane gets flown, and I get some time in type, and after x time, we hash out the equity side of things.
 
If you didn't know, there is a significant decrease in classic-hassle factor starting with the 1958 J models and their SAE-flanged crankshafts (and normal CS props). Personally, for my money, I'd want to only be non-equity unless I had an interest in restoring/maintaining the classic bird. I'd also want to be a participant in its next Annual before joining as an equity partner, just to learn maintenance philosophies and to see how the plane does in an inspection. Some of that stuff is really telling.

The early ones fly so sweetly though, once they're dialed in. If it's a good price, hard to go wrong.
 
sferguson524 said:
Good point Henning.. I may offer up a non equity partnership for a period of time to feel each other out, he's only flying 70 hours a year, so the airplane gets flown, and I get some time in type, and after x time, we hash out the equity side of things.
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Definitely a viable proposition to make.
 
Are you an ABS member? Have you perused Beechtalk? Both very valuable resources.
 
John,

Not guilty on both counts. If i go for it I definitely will
 
For me the road to a partnership in this airplane has come to an end. The seller raised too many red flags.

1. He has no medical, or current flight review, yet he wanted to go fly with me, knowing i need a FR to get back in the saddle. What other laws is he willing to break.

2. He was unwilling to provide even photos of the airplane logs, or make the logs available for me to examine. I will not put myself or my family in that position.

Back to the drawing board.
 
sferguson524 said:
For me the road to a partnership in this airplane has come to an end. The seller raised too many red flags.

1. He has no medical, or current flight review, yet he wanted to go fly with me, knowing i need a FR to get back in the saddle. What other laws is he willing to break.

2. He was unwilling to provide even photos of the airplane logs, or make the logs available for me to examine. I will not put myself or my family in that position.

Back to the drawing board.
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Good decision, he doesn't sound like a very secure partner since he risks your insurable interest. I suspect he was trying to get the money to get the plane into annual.
 
That was kind of where I was thinking. There was just one too many red flags.
 
sferguson524 said:
That was kind of where I was thinking. There was just one too many red flags.
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Yep, it's always a fine line, but eventually too many things just add up wrong and you have to walk away regardless, sometimes even if you already have money and effort into the deal.
 
Thankfully I am only into it about 2-3 hours of my time that would have been spent effing off anyway.
 
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