Flying VFR in rain with 3000-6000 ceiling

mikegreen

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mike g.
So to follow up on my flight following question..same trip for tmrw (I73-44C or JVL, depending on winds)..

It looks like it could be raining, with 3000-6500' ceilings.... I'm assuming that if it isnt raining, it'll just be a little hazy but vis should be ok... if its raining - how much will drizzle or light rain affect visibility?
Forgive me - I flew almost all my hours in daylight non-rainy times... :)

Is it a horrible idea to go into RFD area tmrw around 9-11am central (VFR)?

2010-10-22_1803.png
 
Yeah... light rain and light snow. It was summer and very bright sun coming thru, so I could see for miles still.

Never really flown in a low pressure rain situation, though. Where its complete cloud cover.

I guess its like driving thru rain - just reduces vis but if its light rain it isnt that bad?
 
Thanks Mike. As for your question, we don't get a ton of rain here in the SW, but the times I've flown through it here, bases were high and heavy shafts were easy to maneuver around. Aimed at the light ones to wash the plane. Be careful, sometimes there's more than water coming down (hail).
 
Also keep in mind that it could be worse or better by the time you get there. I'd make sure there are some airports along the route you can land at case it turns into something you don't feel comfortable with.
 
So to follow up on my flight following question..same trip for tmrw (I73-44C or JVL, depending on winds)..

It looks like it could be raining, with 3000-6500' ceilings.... I'm assuming that if it isnt raining, it'll just be a little hazy but vis should be ok... if its raining - how much will drizzle or light rain affect visibility?
Forgive me - I flew almost all my hours in daylight non-rainy times... :)

Is it a horrible idea to go into RFD area tmrw around 9-11am central (VFR)?

Light rain showers with otherwise good visibility shouldn't be a problem during the day with those ceilings. It's common for ceilings to drop in the areas of rain but (assuming your forecast is accurate) the indications are the ceilings will be 6500 wher it isn't raining and no lower than 3000 where it is raining. Typically when the vis is >6 outside the precip you can see the rain from far enough away to avoid any low ceilings or significantly reduced visibility. Also if there's light haze, the rain showers often actually improve the local visibility by scrubbing the dirt from the air.

Just be prepared to abort mid-flight if conditions deteriorate (pushing on hoping things will improve has caused many a pilot to experience anything from a serious scare to premature death). And don't think of trying this after sunset.
 
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I never fly in rain unless I can see through and beyond it.
 
If that forecast holds, you should be ok. Visibility in light rain during the day is typically pretty good, especially if the rain is scattered.

That said, it is one thing to fly through a few rain showers on a nice summer day with well defined (and consistent) cloud bases. It is another thing to fly in wide areas of rain with multiple layers of clouds. This is especially the case when approaching frontal activity where the clouds trend closer to the ground. In this case, the rain often obscures the forward visibility - making it difficult to see cloud bases ahead. The result is that you can start at a good VFR altitude (several thousand AGL) and find yourself pushing the yoke lower and lower to maintain cloud clearances.

Looking at the MOS forecasts for tomorrow, I suspect the trip will go no problem as long as the IMC predicted for early morning in Eastern Iowa does as planned (which is to lift and move North into Wisconsin).
http://weather.unisys.com/mos/mos_depict_24h.gif
http://weather.unisys.com/mos/mos_depict_36h.gif
 
Up to you and how you feel but a little scattered rain is typically not a big deal. Good advice above on knowing you have an out. To me I wouldn't give it a second thought. Under the overcast you can usually see the rain shafts and with flight following you'll be free to avoid as you please. If the plane is dirty feel free to fly thru a few of them to wash things off! If you want to have fun try to get one wing wet while keeping the other dry; it can be done!
 
PS. I like your weather source. However, I strongly recommend finding another source and determine where they get their model data. Use at least two weather sources from two different model providers such as NOAA and Accuweather. You would be surprised at how their forecast can differ. If they are both identical then you have a pretty high probability of getting what they forecast.
 
PS. I like your weather source. However, I strongly recommend finding another source and determine where they get their model data. Use at least two weather sources from two different model providers such as NOAA and Accuweather. You would be surprised at how their forecast can differ. If they are both identical then you have a pretty high probability of getting what they forecast.

USairnet.com forecasts use MOS data. It just depicts it graphically.
 
Light rain showers with otherwise good visibility shouldn't be a problem during the day with those ceilings. It's common for ceilings to drop in the areas of rain but (assuming your forecast is accurate) the indications are the ceilings will be 6500 wher it isn't raining and no lower than 3000 (remember this is MSL) where it is raining. ...QUOTE]

Ceilings are reported AGL
 
Light rain showers with otherwise good visibility shouldn't be a problem during the day with those ceilings. It's common for ceilings to drop in the areas of rain but (assuming your forecast is accurate) the indications are the ceilings will be 6500 wher it isn't raining and no lower than 3000 (remember this is MSL) where it is raining. ...QUOTE]

Ceilings are reported AGL
Sorry, didn't look too hard at the graphic weather and assumed incorrectly that it was an area forecast. I'll amend the post. I'll also add that just because the wx at RFD is OK doesn't mean it will be OK away from the field.
 
It's 9:15am Central... and the forecast didn't hold. The IMC in Eastern Iowa turned into storms and low vis and moved due East (instead of North).

KRFD 231354Z 20009KT 2 1/2SM +RA BKN022 OVC032 13/10 A3002 RMK AO2 SLP167 P0015 T01280100

KRFD 231356Z 2314/2412 20012KT 5SM RA BKN025 OVC040
TEMPO 2314/2318 2SM +SHRA BKN015 OVC030CB
FM231800 19013G23KT P6SM VCSH BKN050 OVC100
TEMPO 2318/2320 -SHRA BKN040CB OVC100
FM232000 19011KT P6SM VCSH SCT045 BKN100
FM240600 19012KT P6SM -SHRA BKN080
 
It really doesn't matter what any of us think you should do, only what you think you should do.

Your scenario would be very easy for some of us, even if conditions dropped to IMC. Therefore some of our perspectives come from a very different point than yours.

If I had to make a recommendation I'd suggest that you spend some time and money flying with a good instructor in marginal VFR conditions. Once you feel comfortable with entering and exiting marginal conditions, a decision like this will be easy to make.

Practice hood time often so that an inadvertent penetration of IMC won't become a terminal decision for you and your passengers.

As the saying goes, "I'd rather be down here, wishing I were up there, instead of the other way around".
 
Nice rain at OLM this afternoon. Viz might have dropped to 5 miles or so, so it wasn't all that heavy. As I was just beating around the pattern I didn't worry too much about it, but it did prevent me from going off and looking at something I want to check out from the air.

And what was plan B if the viz dropped below VFR and the tower asked my intentions? SVFR and land.

Oh, and we have a storm coming in. On downwind the GPS was reading a ground speed about 30 kts above my indicated airspeed, yet by the time I was on short final it was 10 kts or less. Made for an interesting crosswind to downwind turn. And the wind shear wasn't all that noticeable in the 172.
 
It was a pretty lousy morning to be out VFR today.....it was pouring and the ceilings were ~2,500 and the vis was lousy.

SPECI KPIA 231346Z 20008KT 4SM TSRA BR BKN032 OVC070 12/11 A3004 RMK AO2 TSB24 OCNL LTGIC TS SW-N MOV E P0021
 
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And what was plan B if the viz dropped below VFR and the tower asked my intentions? SVFR and land.

Just be aware that you won't always get SVFR immediately, so you might need to use the E-word. If there's an IFR aircraft that's been cleared for an approach (or would be before you landed) they won't be able to give you SVFR otherwise, at least not without making that airplane go missed.

I'm sure Steven will be in here shortly to correct me, but... My experience has been that SVFR is far from a given, even if you're already in the pattern.
 
The water won't bother you but the visibility will. As long as you can see and maintain a comfortable margin over the ground, and away from clouds its fine.

As Ron says, just have an out and/or be willing to turn around and go home.
 
I'm sure Steven will be in here shortly to correct me, but... My experience has been that SVFR is far from a given, even if you're already in the pattern.

Seems to me like if you are already in the pattern, the fastest way for them to get you out of their airspace is to clear you to land.
 
Seems to me like if you are already in the pattern, the fastest way for them to get you out of their airspace is to clear you to land.
When I was a student pilot I was practicing landings at my towered home base when the field went IFR due to a drop in visibility from 4 mi to less than 2. I was on a midfield downwind when the tower informed me of this and said "Say intentions". My neophyte initial reaction was that I needed to leave the class D and head for some other airport but fortunately for me the controller must have recognized my hesitation and followed up with "Cleared to land, any runway" and I got back on the ground without any problems other than an elevated heart rate. No special VFR was requested by me (I probably didn't even know what that meant at the time).
 
Seems to me like if you are already in the pattern, the fastest way for them to get you out of their airspace is to clear you to land.

True, but if there's an airplane on an IFR approach already, they can't give you SVFR... Though I like what the controller did in Lance's situation (there may well not have been an airplane on the approach anyway, tho) because it does two things: Gets you out of the way, and probably keeps you alive.
 
So back to this thread... I forgot I didn't post a follow up...

First, thanks for all the advice. Also to Scott especially, whom I've received his info many times on these boards - and after this thread and my weekend, I signed up for his axwxworkshops.com site and have been going thru a workshop everytime I have a few minutes - very good stuff, and cheaper for 6 months of wx goodness than half an hour of fuel flying!

So - the trip went horrible. 7.7hrs in two days, from I73 to 44c and back.
Here is a summary of the trip:

Saturday, Oct 23rd:
9 am ET, leave for I73. Forecast is consistent with the first one I posted here, except winds around 230 @ 12kts at 44C, but dying down to 8-10 around 1CT.
I see my instructor from my PPL, and we chat about a few things and look at the weather on the computer. He says the rain isnt that bad, but obviously could change but prob not thunderstorms given the temps and such. I agree, and decide to go.
But first, he shows me a pretty '63 182 for sale at the airport... so I end up departing just before 11am ET.
At this point, the forecast for the Rockford/JVL area calls for ceilings 4500 or so in the afternoon, until 7pm central. So I figure I am still good.

I depart I73 with ceilings around 8-10k. I'm flying at 6500.
2010-11-02_2116.png


You can see in the graph (from flightaware) that I start descending... just before this, center calls me up and asks if I am aware of a "moderate precipitation band 6-8 miles ahead".
I tell them no, but thanks, and that I see some up ahead, but am only in very light precip with unlimited visibility at the time. About 2 minutes after that, the rain begins. I can see out the side window great (GPS says the airport I can see off the left wing is 12-14 miles), but forward viz is dropping.
I descend. About 35-3700 I am in good viz but still some rain. It is a little bumpy but not too bad.
In hindsight - this is what I was in -
2010-11-02_2122.png


Once I got out of this line... things cleared up nicely. Some scattered clouds at 4500, but nothing solid.
Little did I know, the low pressure coming from Iowa that was supposed to go NE into northern WI ended up coming straight east.
Just around the JOT vor, I turned north to 44C (with the intention to divert to JVL if winds were not friendly at 44C). I watched my ground speed go from 97-100kts to 145kts. Whoa!

I started searching for AWOS stations in the north... some were reporting 10-15kts from the south, some still saying 10-12 from the west as forecast. Odd.

I had flight following all the way thru Chicago, and was handed off to Rockford (TRSA). About 20 miles from 44C, they ask my intentions.. This was because JVL's most recent report went from 3500 scattered to 700 overcast in short order. I told them it was still very scattered where I was, and I'd continue to 44C and figure it out.

I get to Beloit. Well, I get where the GPS tells me it is... completely cloud locked. I turn around, and start noticing that while I am at 4000', I cant see the ground anymore. There are a few holes here and there, which I think I can dive into and land... but realize that I'll dive into a 700' ceiling and promptly do something stupid and die. Not good.

I turn south, and start looking thru the AOPA airports directory on my iphone (glad I downloaded the offline stuff earlier that morning!). My plan to JVL is toast as its completely IFR... and Poplar Grove or another nearby airport is not an option - as all the reports went from the expected winds to 20kts sustained, gusting to 30-35kts, at 190-210. Being a low-time pilot without the best crosswind skills in a 172, I have no desire to try this out today.
I find Dekalb (DKB) airport with a 2/20 realllly long runway, and plug that into the 600C (direct-to at 100kts IAS, with the headwind,was 58kts ground speed...ick). I get into the pattern and have now been pushed to about 1000AGL... not a fun time. I'm getting bumped all over the place and really have that "I wanna be down there" feeling.
I turn downwind for 20 and realize that the winds are still 40kts at 1000AGL. I get on final, a little high expecting this could take a while... and end up plowing the power on to feel comfortable. I land with 10 degrees of flaps a few hundred feet down the runway.
In the midst of this, I glance at the GPS - about 30 feet over the runway I my GS was just under 30kts. Yeesh.

I touch down, thank God the wind was right down the runway and the gusts were not too bad (the AWOS on taxi says 22g32). Taxiing to the ramp proved to be a challenge - I had full right rudder and almost full brake just to make it go straight when perpendicular to the wind...

I ended up staying at DKB for a while, getting much needed fuel for the plane and myself... I burned 3 hours catching up on work and email... then departed for 44C when the winds died down.. Landed there with a 3500 ceiling and 12-15kts down the runway.

In summary - I didnt like what I did..first time I've really scared myself...
I've started my IFR written studying already. And also trying to figure out weather forecast a bit better... live and learn!

Regards,

Mike
 
In summary - I didnt like what I did..first time I've really scared myself...
I've started my IFR written studying already. And also trying to figure out weather forecast a bit better... live and learn!

Regards,

Mike

Seems to me you did pretty good, although I gotta wonder how you ended up on top of a nearly solid layer bottoming out at 700 AGL. But kudos for continually monitoring your situation and working out plan B and C rather than just pushing on hoping things improve.

This flight is a very good example of the difference between go-nogo preflight planning vs continue with/modify the plan enroute to accommodate the inevitable unforecast conditions.
 
Mike. Thanks for sharing that flight..
Those'come to Jesus ' moments will make you a better pilot forever as you will not forget to keep looking down now. :fcross:

Ben.
 
Mike,

Sounds like a good learning experience. I think we've all been there, on one hand kicking ourselves for getting into "a situation," and on the other hand just doing what needs to be done: Coming up with a new plan. As you continue flying, you'll learn to foresee things more, and know when to move to plan B and on down the list.

That sort of thing also teaches you the value of carrying lots of fuel - When you need to go down the list to plan G, it's a bad thing to have your fuel status limit you to plans A or B only!

Cross-country flying is the best way to learn - I'm glad you got up and used the plane to go somewhere, you learned a lot, and you're back on the ground in one piece and able to evaluate things objectively. That is *exactly* how you become a better pilot. While I'm sure it wasn't all fun and games at the time, I'm sure you'll remember this flight as one of your most valuable ones. Good work, Captain! :yes:
 
Great writeup, Mike! We were thinking about you that day, when we heard about thunderstorms around Rockford! Sounds like a learning experience!
 
Grant - are you related to the Prellwitz that runs the Hertz or National rental car in DeKalb? I saw the name on the biz card (they both were closed...) when I was thinking of renting a car and driving to South Beloit (side note - the airport offered to let me drive a courtesy car 60 miles to South Beloit until the next day... nice!).

thanks,

Mike
 
Grant - are you related to the Prellwitz that runs the Hertz or National rental car in DeKalb? I saw the name on the biz card (they both were closed...) when I was thinking of renting a car and driving to South Beloit (side note - the airport offered to let me drive a courtesy car 60 miles to South Beloit until the next day... nice!).

thanks,

Mike

Quite possibly. I have a cousin there. Not sure where he's working now, though.
 
Some crappy iphone pictures from the trip:

IMG_0562.JPG


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IMG_0565.JPG


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Just south of Chicago - beautiful!

IMG_0569.JPG


and....just west of DeKalb... back to crappy....

and this is over blackhawk farms raceway.... final destination (working on the grass part to just land here instead of 44c!).



IMG_0572.JPG



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44C, Beloit - nice little place.
IMG_0579.JPG


Coolest riding toy ever.
IMG_0582.JPG


And the reason I went to begin with...
IMG_0591.JPG

JTTE4xrsuLK3eQXDGurXWQ
 
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