Flying the T-38 Talon

I have done a few PAR approaches, all in Florida. I didn't think anyone was left alive that knew what they were..:lol::lol:... I only went as low as the DH.
Still doing them at Navy bases all over. The controllers here at NAS New Orleans are always begging for approaches for controller training.
 
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Still doing them at Navy bases all over. The co trollers here at NAS New Orleans are always begging for approaches for controller training.
Yup. I remember doing PARs at Yuma when I was working in my instrument rating. Pretty cool to experience.
 
I remember one memorable PAR at Miramar coming in from the ship for mechanical problems during workups.
It was a dark and stormy night ... (and if you've been to Miramar ... FOGGY!")

"500 feet, on course, on glide slope..."
"400 feet, turn left, on glide slope..."
"300 feet, on course, on glide slope..."
"200 feet, on course, on glide slope..."
touchdown ...
"Attention - the field is now closed"

wishing I had a PAR to drive home that night ... stuck my head out the window for 2 hours to follow the lane line to Escondido.
 
What??? Fog at Miramar...that’s odd. :D
 
Still doing them at Navy bases all over. The controllers here at NAS New Orleans are always begging for approaches for controller training.

That is pretty much how it was... I would ask for a PAR and the controller would say wait a minute.... then I would get a different frequency and a different voice. I guess they were doing rock, paper, scissors to see who got the approach....:lol::lol:
 
The controllers here at NAS New Orleans are always begging for approaches for controller training.

I wasn’t aware of that. I do turns out of MEI all the time due to GCA requirements for our studs and having one here on base. I’d much rather turn out of Lakefront or Louis Armstrong!
 
...Anyway, I wondered if you have a copy of the "riot act" the final controller would read...(part of it was:) "do not acknowledge any transmissions, if communication is not received for 15 seconds, proceed to the missed approach, etc., etc." I always thought it was a tough set of instructions, but very cool. Hoping you can recount them in some detail. Thanks, and thanks for your service. God bless Bob

That was only part of it. On rating day new PAR controllers were required to run a no gyro surveillance approach with recommended altitudes. Goes something like this:

"This will be a no gyro, surveillance approach using PAR azimuth. Mileages will be from touchdown, recommended altitudes will be provided for each mile on final, missed approach point one mile."

By the time you got all that out and especially on a fast mover like a T-38, they've already flown 3 miles. :rolleyes:
 
Hey 20 years in the AF and I never got a ride....

24 for me and neither did I. Ten of those years was working on several aircraft with two seats. T-37, T-38, F-4, F-16 and the A-10 which doesn't have two seats but I did get to fly the simulator. To top it all off, I also never got a reenlistment bonus.
 
24 for me and neither did I. Ten of those years was working on several aircraft with two seats. T-37, T-38, F-4, F-16 and the A-10 which doesn't have two seats but I did get to fly the simulator. To top it all off, I also never got a reenlistment bonus.

Lol I flew the 38 sim quite a few times. One of the RAPCON supervisors had a part time sim job and I'd go over in the evening and he'd hook me up. Yeh I never got the big bonus, just the regular measly amount. Had a chick who couldn't check out in the tower at Eglin, and she was put out of ATC but after she collected the big bonus, maybe 18K back in the early 80s.
 
That is pretty much how it was... I would ask for a PAR and the controller would say wait a minute.... then I would get a different frequency and a different voice. I guess they were doing rock, paper, scissors to see who got the approach....:lol::lol:

No, you were put on a discrete frequency that only you and the final (PAR) controller were on. That's the reason for the different voice also, the final controller.
 
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I remember when my uncle worked on those things at Laughlin, he couldn’t believe that they were still flying. That was 18 years ago!

Any T-X version you’d rather see or you all just glad to get anything new to replace the T-38?

Either of the F404 powered contenders would be a blast to fly (Lockmart's Korean Aerospace licensed clone T-50A, or the Boeing T-X). The political reality is that LockMart all but has that contract in the bag, so the T-50A will likely be the replacement. All of the current contenders (except the Textron Scorpion Jet, which dropped out of the race early on, and that thing was an abortion for a T-38 replacement; basically an ISR platform being re-badged for a tactical trainer = joke) would otherwise would be an improvement in conditions in the training command at this point. Even the T-100, which is a M346 trainer, which itself is a spinoff of the Yakovlev-130, has very decent performance in spite of being the only non-afterburning contender in the group. The logistics and training suites are also already commercially off-the-shelf and I would contend, better established than the T-50A support line. But like I said, this thing is all but licked and stamped by LockMart. Politics.

Like I said before, the T-X was supposed to be IOC FY 17. Now they're saying a no kidding 10 year delay. The system is broken, and we bear the opportunity cost of flying the Talon another 10 years. I'll probably still get to fly the T-X before aging out since I could stay to 26 years as a part-timer, but who knows if I'll consider it worth doing for longer than the novelty of the initial cadre thing. It would also be working for half pay since at that point I would be immediately eligible for active duty retirement pay, and I bet the wife wouldn't be exactly thrilled with that stunt. LOL
 
We got a tour of the STL T-X line a few months back, and I'd say that aside from having some pretty wonky dimensions up close and in person, it seemed like a nice jet.
 
24 for me and neither did I. Ten of those years was working on several aircraft with two seats. T-37, T-38, F-4, F-16 and the A-10 which doesn't have two seats but I did get to fly the simulator. To top it all off, I also never got a reenlistment bonus.
I did get very lucky and got an F16 ride right before I got out of the AF. I mention this not to rub it in but because you mention 10 years working on the aircraft without getting a ride (which I think is unfortunate). The flight was riding along in a 3 ship mission (not the normal fam flights). They gave me a quick crash course on strapping in and ejection seat "training". Then I sat in on the pre-flight briefing. Stepped out to the jet and strapped in with the crew chief watching on the ladder. I asked him, "hey this switch on the ejection seat/seat belt they stressed needed to be in the appropriate position in case of ejection to avoid injury/death, is it right?" He looked at me in disgust and said, "how the fu(k would I know, I've only been working on this plane for 8 years and they won't give me a ride" and then stepped off and the canopy came down. There seemed to be a bit of resentment towards ATC at the time due to our bonuses (and obviously this flight) but I did feel bad for him.

The flight was pretty cool as I preferred the mission instead of fam flight. We went into the bomb range east of Eglin and dropped live bombs (think 3 or 4, pretty intense G's as these were low level dumb bombs) and then did a low level high speed route simulating a bomb run on a nuclear facility in a land far far away. Pretty cool seeing a 172 zip above us over southern Alabama with 500kt closure.

As much fun as it was, I would have traded it to the crew chief if that was an option.
 
Kevin, your stock just went up with me. Maintenance is a thankless job which is one of the reasons why I re-trained into ATC.

My wife retired from the Tucson ANG as a chief a couple years ago. She got a ride in an F-16 and puked the whole time. I took the girls to work with me (it was drill weekend and we didn't have a babysitter) and let them clear mommy for a low approach. This was before the controller on the East coast got in trouble for allowing his son to do the same thing.

Anyway, she never passes up an opportunity to rub it in.
 
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No ride after 8 years. Did a bunch of helos, transports and tanker flights, including Fat Albert but no 2 seat jet stuff. The Navy is on board with the controller ride policy but the Marines don’t play ball. Knew several Navy controllers that got their ejection seat quals and went up in F-5s and A-4s in Key West. Brother was AF ATC and got a T-37 ride.

16K bonus the first time. Would’ve gotten 30K the second but I bounced over to the Army instead. Peanuts compared to some of these Army and AF controllers I talked to overseas. They find a way to re-enlist in an imminent danger area and get it tax free.
 
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That’s the guy to be jealous of...

Lol! I always tell him that he drew the short straw on that one. He had coworkers that got to go up in the F-16s based there. He still had a blast though. A bit quesy when he landed but held it in. I know if I ever got a jet ride I’d blow chunks.
 
it's an absolute grin inducing airplane to fly, but i still feel rather unimpressed with the fact our capitalization priorities are so corrupted that we cant find it in that immorally gargantuan defense budget, to field the T-X in a timely fashion and with cost sensitivity in mind.

im an '81 guy, so that means im training millenials in the same aircraft many of the posters' parents instructed in. Thats a failure in my book. not a distinction without difference either; these aircraft have killed some of my coworkers as a result of age related component failure. you guys have no idea how much water we turn into wine by the grace of God, in present circumstances. I can tell you i respect the hell out of the airplane, but i aproach every flight with the implicit conviction that the airplane is going to betray me. i dont have that problem in my recreational flying, even though its maintained by a lot less number of eyes. thats how strongly i feel about the risk i undertake by putting on the uniform. There are several historical component failure modes that will kill most everybody regardless of skill level, and it takes a preconceived decision to get out in order to survive it. if you try to pilot your way out of it you will die. im flying samples on their 3rd to 5th wing spar batch, and around 18-20k hours on the airframe. some are so bent you cant demo a no flap landing successfully without dropping a wing and having to give the student a pass on grading metrics based on that operational limitation. its incredibly embarrassing on a world stage basis.

the good news is that we now have had martin bakers for a while, just like in the t6, and that seat really puts me at ease in order to focus on my job. i wouldnt feel the same if i was still flying the old seat with the expired fly to fail components.


T-X cant come soon enough. id like to fly the baby viper before i retire. i cant think of a better consolation prize for having poor timing and luck when it was my turn to pick airframes after college. that said, im not leaving the 38. im closer to 40 now than i am to 30 and im still having a blast at my job. im not ready to give that up just yet. i count my blessings all things considered.

gave an atc junior enlisted an orientation ride last month. the kid was absolutely in awe and i could tell. those are the moments where im reminded of how lucky i am of being able to love what i do and proud of what I accomplish. we should all be so lucky.
Air Force training jet crashes in Mississippi, status of pilots unclear


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/05/2...hes-in-mississippi-status-pilots-unclear.html


Explore the Fox News apps that are right for you at http://www.foxnews.com/apps-products/index.html.
 
Air Force training jet crashes in Mississippi, status of pilots unclear


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/05/2...hes-in-mississippi-status-pilots-unclear.html


Explore the Fox News apps that are right for you at http://www.foxnews.com/apps-products/index.html.

Yup, just got out of the squadron bar emergency meeting where they "read us the rights" regarding social media dissemination. For us of course down here, it deals more with the fact we had a fatal last Thanksgiving, as you all well now by now. Leadership is obviously concerned about degrading morale and loss of confidence in the aging fleet due to the fleet at-large having two crashes in less than 6 months. I'm not gonna re-hash that narrative at this point. As I said six month ago, I will reserve comments on the specifics to our crash until the AIB is done and published. Nobody outside of Columbus knows anything of consequence anyhow regarding today's crash, so I'm barely more informed than you all are. We will find out in time.

BTW, both pilots ejected OK today. Another 2 glasses raised to the Martin Baker seat. I f----- love that seat. I can't see -----t out the front due to the bigger form factor compared to the old one, but I f----- love it.
 
@hindsight2020 some of your students have a career in film making if the AF gig doesn’t work out.



 
@hindsight2020 some of your students have a career in film making if the AF gig doesn’t work out.



Bravo Zulu. Good to see leadership have a sense of humor. Awesome jab at the BUFF too lol. There was a lull in that sentiment when Grim the Reaper (TAMI 21) killed dreams and broke hearts during the Lost Decade's affected classes (yours truly included) and thus anything manned was better than an RPA. But nowadays 11F/11Bs are well insulated from the 11U threat, so getting BUFF'd became the threat du jour again.

As to the US product, I'm generally impressed with our kids across all bases these days. Very tech savvy, and great attitudes. They'll do fine in the sensor-overload cockpits of the 5th gen, for those who get them. The current problem is not their fault, it's a general HR mismanagement of the people in my demographic (middle career FGO, aka the tactical expert cadre). Exodus which continues to drive dilution of training in order to paper over the bleeding, and people are getting hurt in the process. The DOD has a number they're willing to live with, they're just not gonna tell you nor me what that is. And I digress.
 
Bravo Zulu. Good to see leadership have a sense of humor. Awesome jab at the BUFF too lol. There was a lull in that sentiment when Grim the Reaper (TAMI 21) killed dreams and broke hearts during the Lost Decade's affected classes (yours truly included) and thus anything manned was better than an RPA. But nowadays 11F/11Bs are well insulated from the 11U threat, so getting BUFF'd became the threat du jour again.

As to the US product, I'm generally impressed with our kids across all bases these days. Very tech savvy, and great attitudes. They'll do fine in the sensor-overload cockpits of the 5th gen, for those who get them. The current problem is not their fault, it's a general HR mismanagement of the people in my demographic (middle career FGO, aka the tactical expert cadre). Exodus which continues to drive dilution of training in order to paper over the bleeding, and people are getting hurt in the process. The DOD has a number they're willing to live with, they're just not gonna tell you nor me what that is. And I digress.

Some of the foreign students brought back memories. European students were always rock solid. Did a check ride on a couple of Norwegian students once. One busted out of T-38s so they gave him helos. The other flew F-16s and hurt his neck pulling Gs so they gave him helos. Both did outstanding on their rides.
 
Some of the foreign students brought back memories. European students were always rock solid. Did a check ride on a couple of Norwegian students once. One busted out of T-38s so they gave him helos. The other flew F-16s and hurt his neck pulling Gs so they gave him helos. Both did outstanding on their rides.

The Singaporeans were also pretty good. But they get to do UPT essentially twice. Once with the Australians, then again with us, so it's not exactly apples to apples. But yeah the Euro guys generally were well filtered. The other "partners" on the other hand....I'll have to withhold public comment until retirement. :D
 
The Singaporeans were also pretty good. But they get to do UPT essentially twice. Once with the Australians, then again with us, so it's not exactly apples to apples. But yeah the Euro guys generally were well filtered. The other "partners" on the other hand....I'll have to withhold public comment until retirement. :D

I’ve already commented before on the Saudis but I’m retired so I can do that! :D
 
Received an incentive ride in a T-38 at Beale. One of the best flying hours of my life. Was ultimately what made my decision to switch to Navy, strangely enough.
 
Received an incentive ride in a T-38 at Beale. One of the best flying hours of my life. Was ultimately what made my decision to switch to Navy, strangely enough.
S'ok, the Navy has a few T-38's too. :)

39706_1171100819.jpg


Nauga,
and his old Teakettle
 
I am constitutionally unable to read this thread or watch the videos due to some form of unbearable envy.

This is not my favorite aircraft, or my dream aircraft or anything. Or perhaps it is and I just don’t admit to it. In any case I can remember first reading about it in the 60s. I made a few drawings of it and otherwise kept an eye on it over the years.

It has always seemed like the perfect ‘personal jet’ to my teenage mind and I guess that image never disappeared. Being an astronaut with access to one for personal transport and ‘proficiency’ seems like the perfect application.

Now I just can’t look at what still looks like a perfect little hot rod.


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Hey 20 years in the AF and I never got a ride. I was supposed to in an F4 but that didn't pan out, and I won some quarterly award and was supposed to go up in an F15 at Eglin, but I moved on to another assignment before that happened. I did get a ride in one of these once, an HH-43.

View attachment 63164

Growing up about two hundred yards from the fence at Kirtland AFB during the 60s, I saw many different aircraft and helicopters fly overhead. Seeing an HH-43 was a treat. My friends and I would be outside playing, and whoever saw it first would shout "Eggbeater!". All activity stopped as we watched it throop throop its way across the sky. :D
 
Growing up about two hundred yards from the fence at Kirtland AFB during the 60s, I saw many different aircraft and helicopters fly overhead. Seeing an HH-43 was a treat. My friends and I would be outside playing, and whoever saw it first would shout "Eggbeater!". All activity stopped as we watched it throop throop its way across the sky. :D

the HH-43 is definitely a cool bird.

0F4C9752-6A3C-4D11-9132-C6880F865400.jpeg
 
the HH-43 is definitely a cool bird.

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There is ONE flying today. And once the time limited parts time out (rotor bladed) there will be zero flying. Where is that one? In the museum at KOLM. They fly it during the Olympic Air Show in June. Not sure about the rest of the year.

Sorry about the lousy picture, I mostly show video of it this past June and those files are way too big to upload here. Come by next Father's Day weekend and see it fly.

IMG_0953.JPG
 
There is ONE flying today. And once the time limited parts time out (rotor bladed) there will be zero flying. Where is that one? In the museum at KOLM. They fly it during the Olympic Air Show in June. Not sure about the rest of the year.

Sorry about the lousy picture, I mostly show video of it this past June and those files are way too big to upload here. Come by next Father's Day weekend and see it fly.

View attachment 79660

There are actually 3 flying (as of 2018 when I last saw them). 2 are owned by Kaman and are used for flight training for K-Max pilots. The other is the one you posted that is owned by the Olympic Air Museum.

Here’s an article from a couple years ago about training in one.
https://www.verticalmag.com/features/goingsolo/

Here’s a photo of one of the old girls on a training flight in 2016.

A2A86414-0E61-4D69-A09C-2241853F40E3.jpeg
 
Interesting. The museum claims that theirs is the only one flying. I guess they are wrong.
 
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