Flying near Wash DC - SFRA Training

Discussion in 'Pilot Training' started by poadeleted20, May 11, 2009.

  1. poadeleted20

    poadeleted20 Deleted

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    For those unfamiliar with the rules around the DC area, please, please, please go to http://www.faasafety.gov/gslac/ALC/course_catalog.aspx?categoryId=11 and take the "Navigating the DC Special Flight Rules Area (SFRA)" course, or at least go to the FAR's and see the new Part 93 Subpart V--WASHINGTON, DC METROPOLITAN AREA SPECIAL FLIGHT RULES AREA (sorry, Part 93 isn't in your standard FAR/AIM book -- gotta go on-line) and read sections 93.331 et seq.
     
  2. sanforce

    sanforce Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I'm thinking about moving to the area after I'm done with school. Thanks for posting this info.
     
  3. AirDC

    AirDC Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Good advice - the link above is an FAA REQUIRED course to take in order to operate within the SFRA.

    The good news is that you will likly only be intercepted by a armed helicoptor now instead of an F-18 because it was getting too expensive to enforce the dozens of busts that occur a year.
     
  4. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Further, it's required to operate within 60 miles of DCA even if you never intend to operate within the SFRA.
     
  5. poadeleted20

    poadeleted20 Deleted

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    VFR, yes; operating IFR does not require completion of the course, but it's still a darn good idea. Also, if you haven't completed the course, you cannot legally take off VFR and pick up your clearance in the air, or cancel IFR until you're on the ground, anywhere within that 60-mile ring, not just the SFRA itself (30-mile ring).
     
  6. weilke

    weilke Final Approach

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    Print the certificate, keep it with the papers you have on you.

    As some people have found out the hard way, you need to have the knowledge in the course even if you fly from Maine to North Carolina VFR and have no interest in the DC area at all.
     
  7. poadeleted20

    poadeleted20 Deleted

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    Not legally necessary, although I carry mine anyway.

    Amen. That 60-mile ring (which is now depicted on the Washington Sectional) extends well out over the Eastern Shore (including the popular Kay's Restaurant at Cambridge KCGE and the cheap fuel stop at Ridgley KRJD), and if you bust the SFRA itself without having done the course, you're doubly hosed.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2011
  8. bigblockz8

    bigblockz8 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I've been ramp checked in the SFRA, at W00, although I am a student I was told to keep it on me as proof. Still a good idea to have it irregardless, its just an extra once and can go right behind your photo ID thats needed.

    Anyone who plans to just go around it because of the "complications" involved, or who doesn't land for that extra couple gallons of fuel, take the course. It's not that long and in the air its amazingly smooth to use.
     
  9. FL407Flyer

    FL407Flyer Filing Flight Plan

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    As a new student pilot, this is good info to know since I will flying from my home in Florida to my work in Reston VA every other week once I receive my license. Last thing I need as a new flyer is to draw attention to myself or worse yet make the 5pm news!
     
  10. woodstock

    woodstock Final Approach

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    Aren't the new rules a lot easier?
     
  11. weilke

    weilke Final Approach

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    For one airport, Leesburg, they have come up with a somewhat reasonable modification of the overall unreasonable rules.
     
  12. woodstock

    woodstock Final Approach

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    So for other airports the simple squawk is not in effect?
     
  13. weilke

    weilke Final Approach

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    Unfortunately no. And no, it doesn't have to make sense.
     
  14. Jaybird180

    Jaybird180 Final Approach

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    Although this is the perfect and good use of a GA airplane, the pressure of needing to show up for work on-time may be inadvisable for the new PP. I recommend you have a 'Plan B' for both directions of travel and always be ready to use it. Lord knows, we don't need another 1st 6 months casualty, like I was reading in the NTSB reports this morning.
     
  15. Dave Siciliano

    Dave Siciliano Final Approach

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    I just took the course again. Flying into Manassas tomorrow to pick some folks up. Planning on IFR, but still wanted to be up to date. It's almost seamless for the IFR folks, but I didn't want to do something dumb.

    Best,

    Dave
     
  16. MDeitch1976

    MDeitch1976 Line Up and Wait

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    I have found dealing with the DC SFRA rules have been helpful in my flight training. For one, it helps with learning to file flight plans. The second part, is it helps with learning to communicate with ATC.
     
  17. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    My wife learned to fly at IAD. Her radio work is stellar. It took her a while to get used to runways that were less than 150 feet wide however.
     
  18. MDeitch1976

    MDeitch1976 Line Up and Wait

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    That's cool. You can do two "touch and gos" on one stretch of those runways there at IAD. Must be great training for wake turbulence avoidance. Even on the taxiways.
     
  19. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I've got my night currency by doing a full stop landing , aking off, climbing up to 1000AGL and then landing again full stop all along the same 11,000' runway.

    We have definitely had issues on the taxiway when a heavy on the cargo ramp ran up. Following them isn't as bad as it seems other than the smell.

    What she go good up is blasting down the final at 120 knots, closing the throttle, hauling back on the yoke until 110, drop the first ten degrees, wait until 85, drop the second, slip hard, touch down 2000' down the runway and make the first turn off at 4500'.
     
  20. MDeitch1976

    MDeitch1976 Line Up and Wait

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    I have not done slips yet.
    I am definitely going to get my instructor to take me IAD. He will probably take us to BWI. But, I have history at Dulles. So, my money, my choice. LOL!
     
  21. Jaybird180

    Jaybird180 Final Approach

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    Where are you based?
     
  22. MDeitch1976

    MDeitch1976 Line Up and Wait

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    I am based out of KGAI.
     
  23. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Dulles isn't too bad if you avoid the "push" times (when the airlines in the hub and spoke try to land all the arrivals and departures in a concentrated 30 minute or so period). If you never leave the movement area, you don't even owe a landing fee (or worse the FBO gouge fees).
     
  24. wsuffa

    wsuffa Touchdown! Greaser!

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    IIRC - and someone else can do the research as I don't have time - IAD had, at one time, an STOL runway. I don't recall whether it was a separate piece of concrete or whether it was marked on a runway/taxiway.
     
  25. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I wouldn't call it a "STOL" runway, it was just a few thousand feet in the middle what is now taxiway Q (parallel to 12-30). It had the designation 11-29 if I recall correctly (and the taxiway was Taxiway N back before the FAA "foolish consistency" morons decided to take the entirely logical taxiway nomenclature at IAD and turn it into a bunch of random letters.).

    I think it was too close to the actual runway 12-20 to make sense to use it for any semblance of parallel operations, though I guess it may have been helpful to get some GA stuff in or out while landing on the then 1L. (12-20 and 1L (1C now) don't intersect but the approach path of 1L crosses 30). Now they typically send GA departures down to 30 for most departures and just shoot the gap with any 1C-19C operations.

    Back in the day, you parked your little airplane out on a concrete pad in between the runways (where the midfield terminals are now) and someone from Page came down and retrieved you. Of course, that was also the day when there were no jetways at Dulles. Most flights were serviced by the mobile lounges except for some puddle jumpers that deplaned on the ramp near the base of the control tower.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2012
  26. Jaybird180

    Jaybird180 Final Approach

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    My plans aren't solid yet, but I may head over to IAD on Tuesday. Will have to take the long way around the SFRA/FRZ, but I could stop by and get you.
     
  27. MDeitch1976

    MDeitch1976 Line Up and Wait

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    Take the online DC SFRA course. Then file an SFRA flight plan. If it is not to busy, they can fly you right through Bravo to KGAI. Make sure to call ATC before entering chosen gate, they give you a transponder code, then they clear you into the SFRA.
    I am always down for some flying.
     
  28. jkgoblue

    jkgoblue Pre-takeoff checklist

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  29. Jaybird180

    Jaybird180 Final Approach

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    I already have the SFRA certificate. I just can't fly direct from home base (inside the SFRA) to KGAI through the FRZ (even with my secret decoder ring).
     
  30. MDeitch1976

    MDeitch1976 Line Up and Wait

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    I was told their is a GPS route underneath on the Washington TAC. from KGAI to the other side of the FRZ was I think VPNW to VPOOP. Reverse that coming from the east. However, I did see it goes over a wildlife preserve. And, I believe technically would not be high enough.
     
  31. weilke

    weilke Final Approach

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    It is a visual route between those two GPS points (VPOOP and VPONX) which if you keep the needle centered and between 2100 and 2500 keeps you out of trouble.

    I was planning to do that trip today (VKX to GAI), but then some schedule changes required me to drive up to Rockville....:mad: Good thing is that way I got some genuine bagels on the way home.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2012
  32. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    If you fly over on Tuesday, do it later in the day and ask to land on 1L/19R. Then you can taxi by the Shuttle/Transporter which should by then be situated on the large deice pad between 1L and 1C. They're going to unload it and tug it down to Udvar-Hazy by Thursday AM.
     
  33. poadeleted20

    poadeleted20 Deleted

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    Popularly known as the Dulles East transition, available on request when traffic permits. Make sure you stay in the line, because a hair west puts you in conflict with Dulles operations and a hair east puts you in the FRZ. And it is within, not under, the B-space. The old VFR corridor to the east of the Dulles East transition is inside the FRZ and therefore unusable.
     
  34. Jaybird180

    Jaybird180 Final Approach

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    If I do it, it will be in the morning in time to be on the ramp to see the Shuttle come in.
     
  35. MDeitch1976

    MDeitch1976 Line Up and Wait

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    I thought VPNW and VPOOP transition between the FRZ and BWI. I know there is another route through the eastern portion of IAD, and the FRZ. However I did not see it on the chart. When I get my license, I may avoid these routes all together untill I have a lot more experience. At what point do you request these transitions? While filing the flight plan, or enroute under ATC? Are there usually better times to be cleared to fly through the Bravo Airspace?
     
  36. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    There used to be a VFR flyway in the class B but it got eaten by the FRZ.
    The only route now is within the class B called the east downwind transition. You fly about 2 miles east of and parallel to 1R/19L. It goes right over my house. That was how you got around to the other side of Dulles when coming from the wrong side even before the SFRA/FRZ.
     
  37. wsuffa

    wsuffa Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Correct. Potomac/Dulles will accommodate if possible. I've flown it several times in and out of HEF under IFR when routed over EMI. Potomac can assign it IFR if you have IFR GPS.
     
  38. Jaybird180

    Jaybird180 Final Approach

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    Unable to locate VPNW on foreflight. Aren't you missing a letter?
     
  39. MDeitch1976

    MDeitch1976 Line Up and Wait

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    Sorry, It is VPONX. and VPOOP. I should of looked at my chart, and not guess. Noted. And, need to add it to my list of no no's.

    But, if you are serious about heading in to GAI, I am all for it. Watching the shuttle come in piggy back style would be amazing!
     
  40. Jaybird180

    Jaybird180 Final Approach

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    I plotted that course....disappointing.

    At any rate, I'm off work that day....wassup?