Flying club, help me think this through....

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by Brad W, Jan 11, 2020.

  1. gkainz

    gkainz Final Approach

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    We have easy to read hangar fuel loads that is each pilot’s responsibility to refuel to after each flight. If the next pilot discovers low fuel during preflight, he would work with the prior pilot to make it right.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2020
  2. Ghery

    Ghery Final Approach

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    I belong to a 50 member club with 3 (used to be 4) airplanes. A C-182P, a C-172N and a C-172P. Different panels/equipment in each. The cost for buy-in is whatever you negotiate with the person selling the membership. Cost me $1200 20 years ago. Paid for itself in 40 hours as a C-172 cost $80/hr wet and the club's C-172N was $50/hr wet (then). $97/hr wet now. With tax it's a bit over $80/month for club dues, slightly less if you fly that month. $124/hr wet for the C-182, $97/hr wet for the C-172N (180 hp Penn Yan) and $87/hr wet for the C-172P. I would expect to get at least $1200 from the next person if I were to sell my membership.

    Your numbers strike me as high, but different parts of the country. Our monthly dues cover fixed costs like hangars and insurance. It also helps that at least a third of the members never fly a club plane. In the nearly 20 years I've been a member I've been unable to fly due to the unavailability of a plane perhaps 3 times. I can't complain about that at all.
     
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  3. Terry M - 3CK (Chicago)

    Terry M - 3CK (Chicago) Pre-takeoff checklist PoA Supporter

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    Maybe ask to see the financials? Many clubs (all?) make them available to members.

    When you say the club owns the plane, my guy says that isn’t the case. I could be wrong.

    Im looking at a club locally with two nice Cessnas. My buyin gives me an ownership interest in the plane, but there is a note against it. Two members (I think) co-signed for the loan and the bank would look to them if the club didn’t pay.

    Sounds like in the partnership you are looking at maybe an individual owns the plane and leases it to the club? Otherwise I think you would be part owner of the plane as a member.
     
  4. Ryanb

    Ryanb Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Where’s the other $1500 go, just out of curiosity?
     
  5. Flying_Nun

    Flying_Nun Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Those numbers seem high for what you get.

    Here's what my equity club runs in comparison. 13 members and about half fly with regularity.

    PA28-161
    Dual Garmin G5
    WAAS GPS
    ADS-B Out
    JPI Engine Monitor

    Buy-in: $3,000 (sell to new member or refunded if you leave)
    Dues: $108/month
    "Rent": $47/hr tach dry

    Club insurance covers all named pilots. Aircraft is hangared. Planned upgrades include Garmin GFC500 Autopilot and replacing the old Bendix Com2.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
     
  6. Pugs

    Pugs Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Just to give you some data points. I belong to 2 clubs.

    Club 1 - $1200 buy-in ($1K refundable)/$160 a month - 70 members - It can be hard to get a plane on a nice weekend day and if you want a plane for a whole weekend plan on 3+ months out.
    RV12 - $100/hr hobbs
    172N - $140/hr tach
    172S - $140/hr tach
    182S - $180/hr tach
    182RG - $190/hr tach

    Club 2 - $1K buy in ($1K refundable)/ $185 a month. 12 members one plane - Plane usually available - For a whole weekend plan 3 weeks out.
    1983 Archer full IFR equipped - $95/Hobbs

    For what I'm paying I could likely buy my own but (1) There are zero hangars available (2) I'm not sure what I want to own yet so it's nice to have a variety to fly and figure that out.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2020
  7. Brad W

    Brad W Pre-takeoff checklist

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    and if there are no tie downs either, like at my airport, it kinda all brings it to a dead end, doesn't it!

    I'm still reeling after learning that last week.
     
  8. Scrabo

    Scrabo Pattern Altitude

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    It is a deal compared to other clubs in the area, that’s why there are approx 75 in the waiting list, member turn over is low.

    Downside of only one plane is that if it is down for any extended period of time, the fixed costs still come in
     
  9. Scrabo

    Scrabo Pattern Altitude

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    Engine and equipment fund.
     
  10. Ventucky Red

    Ventucky Red Cleared for Takeoff

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    $140 for the 172 is an pretty good average price..
     
  11. Ryanb

    Ryanb Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Depends what area of the country you’re surveying.


    Ah. Quite a bit of moola for one to wipe their arse with.
     
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  12. smv

    smv Line Up and Wait

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    Sounds like a better deal than the one I recently found. A seven member "club" with a single C-172. The initial buy-in was "only" $12,000 then $180/month and $̶1̶3̶5̶/̶h̶r̶ $100/hr.

    Sounds more like a fractional than a club.

    Contrast that to the club I flew with in Helena, MT. Buy-in was $750 (fully refundable) then $80/month (with $40 of that going to flight credits if it was paid on time) and five or six airplanes ranging from $49/hr to $120/hr. Sure do miss those days...

    :(
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020
  13. Ryanb

    Ryanb Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Who in their right mind would be stupid enough to do that?
     
  14. smv

    smv Line Up and Wait

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    Donno... Not this dude. Was initially told buy-in was "around $8k" but when the only offer came in it was at $12k. Maybe that person was a bit... ambitious... in what they thought their share was worth. Being that far from my expectations I realized that trying to negotiate was out of the question and bowed out of the deal.
     
  15. Ravioli

    Ravioli Final Approach

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    Tell us more about the C172. Prices run from $30k to $300k. So, once the year model and approximate value is known, divide that by 7.

    Then... How much cash is in the reserves? If the plane is 1000 hrs SMOH there should be minimum $16k in the engine reserves. If they also reserve for avionics and other upgrades (interior) there could be over $20k in reserves. Divide that by 7.

    So, it could very well be that $12k for a share is a good deal. That would be a $65,000 C-172 with $20k+ in the bank.

    $180 for hangar, insurance, and routine mx (including annuals) is reasonable.

    $135/hr wet is reasonable, if it includes the reserve funding.
     
  16. smv

    smv Line Up and Wait

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    It is a 1966 C172H sporting a Bendix/King KLN90B, Garmin G5, Stratus ESG, and a couple Garmin NAV/COMs. Apparently the engine has a recent overhaul but appears to have the OEM 145hp O-300.

    Also, I made an error in the /hr rate that I will go back and fix. It is actually $100/hr which is a pretty good deal, in and of itself, but taken as a whole the entire all-in price is just a bit more than what I expected. As a Fractional deal, it might be pretty good. I am/was not looking for a fractional.
     
  17. Ventucky Red

    Ventucky Red Cleared for Takeoff

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    Have you seen the prices of the 172 lately... low hour M and N versions are selling for $75K to $100K.... P and S are up to $200K. it is sick... There was one local 172N that sold in five days for $90K.... 3500 hour airframe with a 1200 hour engine and no ADS-B.

    Hells Bells... 152s are selling for $40K plus as well
     
  18. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down

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    I know of a super clean S model that sold for over $200 in the last month or two. Amazing.

    With the mass training and hiring going on, it isn’t sitting still. No grass growing under that airplane. It’s flying like mad.