Flying an unfamiliar aircraft type

[SkyHog]

It has nothing to do with being smart or dumb. I write software for a living. I can find you many people with 120+ IQs in demanding jobs that can't write software at all. They just don't have the aptitude.

Aviating is more of a visual and motor skill thing than a test of intelligence.

I think you misread my post. The pilots aren’t dumb, the requirements are dumb.

It took me almost 100 hours to get my PPL.

 

[SkyHog]

Looking back at my CFI days I’m remembering several competent PP’s.... but VERY FEW true “masters”.
Give your average PP a 15kt 90° crosswind. They will get the airplane on the ground, but very few have truly mastered the crosswind landing. In theory, yes. But not in application.
I know I didn’t until I became a CFI.

Doesn’t surprise me. Yet is mastery the goal for a private pilot? I wouldn’t think so - I would think that’s the goal of a commercial or ATP rated pilot

 

[FormerHangie]

I think you misread my post. The pilots aren’t dumb, the requirements are dumb.

It took me almost 100 hours to get my PPL.

I did misread it, sorry.

 

[Kritchlow]

Doesn’t surprise me. Yet is mastery the goal for a private pilot? I wouldn’t think so - I would think that’s the goal of a commercial or ATP rated pilot

I agree. Perhaps I misinterpreted your post. I thought you were saying it was so easy that a PP can master it.

 

[SkyHog]

I agree. Perhaps I misinterpreted your post. I thought you were saying it was so easy that a PP can master it.

I probably didn't say it very clearly - that ones on me - essentially, what I'm saying is that we have the bar set to high for the PPL - many of the items on the checkride are there to exhibit mastery of the aircraft, which overly complicates the process. Move the items intended to display this mastery to the commercial instead - S-Turns, Turns around a Point, Steep Turns, etc. Bring back stall and spin recovery training and focus on those items which could save a PPL's life and the basic mission stuff for a PPL - cross country training, landing, taking off, navigation, emergency procedures, etc. That's where I think you can get the PPL down to 30 hours or less.

 

[Kritchlow]

I probably didn't say it very clearly - that ones on me - essentially, what I'm saying is that we have the bar set to high for the PPL - many of the items on the checkride are there to exhibit mastery of the aircraft, which overly complicates the process. Move the items intended to display this mastery to the commercial instead - S-Turns, Turns around a Point, Steep Turns, etc. Bring back stall and spin recovery training and focus on those items which could save a PPL's life and the basic mission stuff for a PPL - cross country training, landing, taking off, navigation, emergency procedures, etc. That's where I think you can get the PPL down to 30 hours or less.

I do understand your point, but respectfully I’m not sure I agree.
The maneuvers on the PPL test (whatever it’s called now) are not “mastery maneuvers”.
They are basic “control the airplane” maneuvers IMO.
To be honest, I think it’s the commercial maneuvers that need a revamp.

The ATP is just fine. It’s an easy checkride for one reason.... it’s a high lever IR ride, but by the time they do the ATP they usually have thousands of hours flying IFR. At least that’s the way it once was. I remember when major airline pilots only got the ATP on their captain checkride. First officers were commercial grade.
Obviously that has changed.

 

[Salty]

Yeah, I definitely disagree that the ppl standards are too stringent. I don't want someone out there entering the pattern in a class c that can't perform an s turn or steep turn without maintaining altitude, etc.

 

[SkyHog]

Yeah, I definitely disagree that the ppl standards are too stringent. I don't want someone out there entering the pattern in a class c that can't perform an s turn or steep turn without maintaining altitude, etc.

What are you afraid is going to happen?

 

[Salty]

What are you afraid is going to happen?

They are asked to maneuver to maintain separation from an airliner and they can't do it as requested, endangering hundreds of people.

 

[tawood]

I probably didn't say it very clearly - that ones on me - essentially, what I'm saying is that we have the bar set to high for the PPL - many of the items on the checkride are there to exhibit mastery of the aircraft, which overly complicates the process. Move the items intended to display this mastery to the commercial instead - S-Turns, Turns around a Point, Steep Turns, etc. Bring back stall and spin recovery training and focus on those items which could save a PPL's life and the basic mission stuff for a PPL - cross country training, landing, taking off, navigation, emergency procedures, etc. That's where I think you can get the PPL down to 30 hours or less.

I have to admit, that when I first read your post I thought, "No, those things you want to remove are important." But, I got to thinking...the last time I've done S-Turns, or turns around a point, was during my private pilot training...haven't done them in my 480 hours since. Now I suppose someone could argue that at my next flight review, I SHOULD be doing them, but why? I haven't needed them since, and any skill that doing those maneuvers helps with, why not just practice the actual skill?
Now steep turns, on the other hand, I do frequently...but only because my girlfriend's kid is always asking me to do them.

 

[tspear]

I have to admit, that when I first read your post I thought, "No, those things you want to remove are important." But, I got to thinking...the last time I've done S-Turns, or turns around a point, was during my private pilot training...haven't done them in my 480 hours since. Now I suppose someone could argue that at my next flight review, I SHOULD be doing them, but why? I haven't needed them since, and any skill that doing those maneuvers helps with, why not just practice the actual skill?
Now steep turns, on the other hand, I do frequently...but only because my girlfriend's kid is always asking me to do them.

I have had to do S-Turns, steep turns... all basic VFR skills on the last few flights. And they were not training flights, but I needed to do a tight pattern to increase the spacing for the jet behind me. I needed to increasing spacing on a straight in final to allow the other plane to clear the runway...
If you fly where there may be more than one plane in the pattern or in the area; these skills can come into play.

Tim

 

[mscard88]

I have had to do S-Turns, steep turns... all basic VFR skills on the last few flights. And they were not training flights, but I needed to do a tight pattern to increase the spacing for the jet behind me. I needed to increasing spacing on a straight in final to allow the other plane to clear the runway...
If you fly where there may be more than one plane in the pattern or in the area; these skills can come into play.

Tim

Exactly. You may not think you're doing turns about a point or rectangular patterns, wind drift correction maneuvers & aircraft control, but you are using segments of those maneuvers when you fly. Tailwind on base leg what do you do, you adjust for it.

 

[Salty]

Well, I did it. It was pretty much a non event. I took a cross country and logged a few landings. However, I will grab some time with an instructor before I fly it more. Why? I wanted to prove I could do it, but honestly, I will feel more comfortable in it after I get some pointers from someone experienced with the model.

The only thing I noticed that was much different at all was how heavy the elevator is on final. Had to really yank hard on that sucker to keep the nose up. Oh, and when I dumped flaps while slowing the nose likes to pop back up again.

 

[N659HB]

Glad you survived, you daredevil!

 

[Salty]

Glad you survived, you daredevil!

Based on some of the posts here, it must have been a miracle.

 

[Salty]

And I'm just kidding. I really should have gotten some training first. I'm guilty of one of the faa's 5 mortal sins.