wayneda40
Line Up and Wait
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- Jul 31, 2017
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waynemcc
Katherine, awesome questions and great insight... many thanks!I'm confused about whether you're planning to stop in Canada or not, and how you're going to handle this if you do want to stop. The border was still closed to non-essential travel, the last time I checked. Did this change, and I missed the memo?
How much time for the entire trip? You could spend weeks dorking around in any of these places...
Have you flown in Alaska before?
I notice that Talkeetna didn't make the cut. It might be an easier jumping-off point for seeing The Mountain (depending on the weather). Plus, depending on where you stay there may be no need for a rental car, as beautiful downtown Talkeetna is within walking distance of the airport. Nice big runway with approaches. I think you're underestimating its "Scenic Beauty" rating too... Never been to Healy airport so I don't know how it compares.
I also noticed (in a spreadsheet I think?) something about landing in Homer and then taking a water taxi to Seldovia. Why take a water taxi when you have a PLANE? Isn't that the point of having a plane? The town of Seldovia is also within walking distance of its airport. (Homer is not.)
Girdwood is also walkable from the airport, and might make a neat stop. Is there a prohibition of gravel runways for this trip? If so, you're missing out on some neat places...
If it were me, I would de-emphasize IFR approaches in my spreadsheet. If the goal is to see awesome scenic beauty, you're going to want to do that on a nice VFR day anyway, and flying IFR is not just about having approaches, it's also about the MEA's which can be stratospheric in some places. Places nestled in a valley or against a mountainside have some of the best Scenic Beauty ratings, but no approaches.
I can see how approaches would be important from the perspective of the Canada transit, if you go with the coastal route. But I'll defer to experts on that. I'm not brave enough for the coastal route. Big fan of having at least a road beneath me.
Keep us posted,
On COVID and Canada, as of 5-July there is (as we understand) an exemption for fully vaccinated travelers that should at least allow us to do a fuel stop in Canada (in our case CYKA).
Yes! Sometimes there's no substitute for a human on the phone.Of course, I plan to call CBSA/Kamloops to get their reading on this...
The fine print on the quiz is that you cannot "enter Canada" during your layover, so I think that you are right about the intent of the quiz being different than a literal reading of the option. I hope you'll take the time to post here when you've talked to them to find out more.-- foreign national (we're all USA citizens)
-- no symptoms
-- only passing through Canada to reach another destination
-- transiting on a "connecting flight" (well, that's true... even though it might not be their intent)
Hey. You can get The Monkey from @kath. Then start planning your over the pond flight to Hawaii.The three amigos -- Bill, Joe, Wayne -- are planning another flying adventure… to Alaska in August 2021. The first video in this series covers various aspects of our planning, including when to go, possible routes, locations to visit, trip calendar, and preparations. Should be great fun… welcome aboard! Wayne, GeezerGeek Pilot
Brian, we're definitely in sync on these points... although, no offense, I'm keen to get Kamloops customs' confirmation on the tech stop exemption. Wouldn't be the end of the world if we had to spend the night in the aircraft (several nights would get old quickly ). I also agree that the designer of the wizard quiz likely has no clue about GA.There's a couple of issues here that I haven't seen touched on
1) tech stops are exempt. If you just stop to get fuel and can go on, you never enter the country, so you're good.
2) Entry to Canada is restricted to "funnelling" airport. Vancouver is the only one on the west coast. If a tech stop becomes an overnight due to weather, you could be stuck because Kamloops is not authorized to grant entry. I don't know what they'd do here, but I suspect "just let them sit in the airplane all night" is the only option the government policies permit. Even in normal times, you have to call and get entry clearance from Customs before you put your feet on the ground.
3) I'm not convinced that path through the wizard is the right one. They're thinking about a person walking from one gate to another gate in a major airport, someone who has no need to leave the airport. GA really isn't on their minds.
An encouraging story - several years ago we took a cruise to Alaska, late in the season. In Skagway, there was a sight seeing train that went out White Pass, Canada, turned around and came back. The morning we were there, there was a landslide across the tracks near the border and at least one train got stuck on the Canada side of the landslide. The passengers had no passports, but the train could no longer get back to the US. It only took US and Canada customs about 4 hours to figure out how to move the train to another station, put the passengers on busses and get them across the border to the cruise ship in Skagway.
I'm definitely interested in what they have to say. The published policies don't cover what to do if a tech stop requires an overnight for weather or mechanical issues.
Wow, wouldn't that be nice... but unexpected and largely unplanned for. Thx!Sometimes you can snag a tailwind from WA to Ketchikan, but it’s not common.
There's a couple of issues here that I haven't seen touched on
1) tech stops are exempt. If you just stop to get fuel and can go on, you never enter the country, so you're good.
2) Entry to Canada is restricted to "funnelling" airport. Vancouver is the only one on the west coast. If a tech stop becomes an overnight due to weather, you could be stuck because Kamloops is not authorized to grant entry. I don't know what they'd do here, but I suspect "just let them sit in the airplane all night" is the only option the government policies permit. Even in normal times, you have to call and get entry clearance from Customs before you put your feet on the ground.
3) I'm not convinced that path through the wizard is the right one. They're thinking about a person walking from one gate to another gate in a major airport, someone who has no need to leave the airport. GA really isn't on their minds.
An encouraging story - several years ago we took a cruise to Alaska, late in the season. In Skagway, there was a sight seeing train that went out White Pass, Canada, turned around and came back. The morning we were there, there was a landslide across the tracks near the border and at least one train got stuck on the Canada side of the landslide. The passengers had no passports, but the train could no longer get back to the US. It only took US and Canada customs about 4 hours to figure out how to move the train to another station, put the passengers on busses and get them across the border to the cruise ship in Skagway.
I'm definitely interested in what they have to say. The published policies don't cover what to do if a tech stop requires an overnight for weather or mechanical issues.
Well, they found someone who knows what a NOTAM is to help write this one, but it still needs clarification.
Effective August 9, 2021, international flights carrying passengers will be permitted to land at the following five additional Canadian airports:
- Halifax Stanfield International Airport;
- Québec City Jean Lesage International Airport;
- Ottawa Macdonald–Cartier International Airport;
- Winnipeg James Armstrong Richardson International Airport; and
- Edmonton International Airport.
Wow, flying GA into Canada is looking "interesting". Our current plan for 7-Aug is to fly 0S9 (Port Townsend) to CYKA (Kamloops), refuel, and then immediately continue on to PAKT (Ketchikan). Phone calls yesterday with Canada Border Services Agency indicated that this "in-transit" tech/fuel stop "should work fine". I'll report back.Another thing to worry about https://www.reuters.com/world/ameri...ke-days-ahead-us-border-reopening-2021-07-27/
Good points. Our preference sequence for the fuel stop would have been... Prince George, Kamloops... but it seemed CBSA was firm on us going to Kelowna. Lean-of-peak on the C182 plus TravelJohns made it doable.You are titrating a technical fuel stop with customs and avoiding Covid considerations. This limits many options if CBSA had to physically be around (in lieu of a phone call at site inside the airplane ) at the technical fuel stop. For aircraft, like my PA28-181, I would have found that deviation to CYLW untenable as it would have added 60nm to an already unacceptably long nonstop leg to PAKT; the CYKA to PAKT would have also been too long. I would have needed something further north that allowed the customs and technical fuel stop to be farther from the conus and thus closer to PAKT. Your longer range obviously gave you more options.
Ps: I’m sure waste management has been interesting for y’all)
In the C182 running lean of peak, we had plenty of range to do the 0S9 to PAKT leg... but we weren't happy with the outlook for precip, icing, and fog along the direct coastal route. Thus the call to do the tech stop in Canada, albeit with the added customs and COVID hassle (and risk, as you point out, of an overnight and possible quarantine). But it all worked out just fine.Can I just point out that Bellingham to Ketchikan is only 519 miles, so one solution is just to get a plane with that range....like a Mooney.
Also, agree that a technical stop is simple, minus the sanitary issues. The real complication comes in as to what happens if the technical stop turns into an overnight stay.