Flight sims, worth it?

[Pinstriper]

I'm just curious, any of these off the shelf (ms,X-Plane etc.) flight sims worth getting? I realize you can't log the time but would they be helpful at all? I have approx 165hrs and own a PA-28 and thought about buying a set up to "fly" on while at home and stuff but wasn't sure if I should get one. I fly between 1-2hrs every weekend... Your thoughts?

 

[MachFly]

If you want to practice procedures then they can help. The flight physics is generally not realistic, so I wouldn't practice maneuvers or landings.
They can also be fun if you got nothing better to do.

 

[jesse]

Incredibly useful and valuable for IFR stuff - not very useful for much else.

 

[flyingmoose]

Yes, I used one when getting the IR. Great at practicing procedure stuff.

 

[redtail]

X-Plane 10 + Saitek Pro Flight Yoke (modded with rubber bands), removing the original springs to get rid of the unrealistic tension in pitch & roll axes.

 

[jordane93]

Incredibly useful and valuable for IFR stuff - not very useful for much else.

Yep. I can't agree more. If you are having trouble learning procedures, take a day off from flying and just work the simulator. It will save you a lot of money, and you can pause and restart at any time. You can't do that in the plane!

 

[asgcpa]

Incredibly useful and valuable for IFR stuff - not very useful for much else.

Would agree. Love my Elite.

 

[tinerj]

One other use for the beginner -- the radio calls are very realistic and in the same order as you will encounter them when you enter controlled airspace.

Really great for IFR stuff.

And a lot of fun. Fly through the Gateway Arch! See if you can get off the ground and fly around the Wright monument at Kitty Hawk -- in the Wright flyer. Try to take off in that blind Spirit of St. Louis, it really is a bear to fly.

 

[Yellowbird]

X-Plane 10 + Saitek Pro Flight Yoke (modded with rubber bands), removing the original springs to get rid of the unrealistic tension in pitch & roll axes.

Can you tell me more about how you modded the yoke? I just picked one up and the feel is a bit stiff for my liking.

 

[redtail]

Can you tell me more about how you modded the yoke? I just picked one up and the feel is a bit stiff for my liking.

I opened it, removed the springs (saved everything in a ziplock bag) and substituted them with a bunch of fat rubber bands.

After a little research I realized that I wasn't the only "real pilot" that found the yoke a bit too stiff due to the springs and center detents. I was happy to find videos and info from people that modded theirs. Some just removed the springs. Some replaced them with different springs. Others replaced them with rubber bands.

Goggle; saitek pro flight yoke mod

http://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/showthread.php?238292-Saitek-Proflight-Yoke-modification

 

[Pinstriper]

Okay. Well I spotted this.. And just bought it.. I hope I did okay? http://www.ebay.com/itm/321361745075

 

[tehmightypirate]

Incredibly useful and valuable for IFR stuff - not very useful for much else.

This, very much this. Anything involving a mental aspect these excel at. I also use them as practice runs for unfamiliar flights to new airports, keeping my head in the game as I don't fly as much as I should, and you can setup random failures so they make great tools for dealing with mechanical troubles. Plus, being a simulator you can just dump yourself at 3,000 ft and try a procedure, finish it, then reset it and try it again. Much faster than actually getting in a plane if it's something you want to do over and over again.

Okay. Well I spotted this.. And just bought it.. I hope I did okay? http://www.ebay.com/itm/321361745075

Not bad at all. The Saitek stuff is rock solid and rarely breaks. It's cheap and functional and will do well enough simulating cockpit controls without spending $3,000.

 

[Johann]

I bought one pre solo, and it was awful. I could not fly a pattern in the thing. Granted, single monitor, so not the best setup, but still, if I flew the real plane as I was flying the simulator my instructor would kick me out of it mid air. Even after solo I crashed landed almost every time, it just felt weird.

I put it away and wrote it off as money wasted.

Then, after my first cross country (where I wasn't stellar in keeping the nav log updated), I decided to fly my second in the sim before going in for real.
I have to say it really helped, great practice. Of course, I got "lost" in the second leg because it was missing some pretty big lakes I used as checkpoints, but it's also good practice for doing things like VOR intersections.

So what everyone said, for procedures, but it doesn't fly like the real thing.

 

[redtail]

I bought one pre solo, and it was awful. I could not fly a pattern in the thing. Granted, single monitor, so not the best setup, but still, if I flew the real plane as I was flying the simulator my instructor would kick me out of it mid air. Even after solo I crashed landed almost every time, it just felt weird.

I put it away and wrote it off as money wasted.

Then, after my first cross country (where I wasn't stellar in keeping the nav log updated), I decided to fly my second in the sim before going in for real.
I have to say it really helped, great practice. Of course, I got "lost" in the second leg because it was missing some pretty big lakes I used as checkpoints, but it's also good practice for doing things like VOR intersections.

So what everyone said, for procedures, but it doesn't fly like the real thing.

True, but with a powerful CPU/GPU combination, X-Plane (more accurate lakes and rivers, a high frame rate, multi-monitors + TrackIR and decent payware addon aircraft (Carenado), you can get pretty darn close.

OK you don't have to have a multi-monitor setup but it sure helps.

Carenado.com
Dan Klaue is a genius! His aircraft are the best.

 

[Pinstriper]

x-plane 10 appears to be under $40? I think I'll go ahead get it if that's what you guys recommend?

 

[mirage00]

Prepare3D

 

[jimhorner]

X-Plane 10 + Saitek Pro Flight Yoke (modded with rubber bands), removing the original springs to get rid of the unrealistic tension in pitch & roll axes.

Thanks for the idea about the rubber bands. I removed the original springs on mine because they made the tension to be, as you said, quite unrealistic in the pitch and roll axes. I'll try adding some rubber bands inside.

 

[Pinstriper]

How much differance is in the CH yoke I got in the eBay link and the Saitek pro flight yoke you guys have?

 

[redtail]

How much differance is in the CH yoke I got in the eBay link and the Saitek pro flight yoke you guys have?

Like my original rudder pedals, my first yoke was CH products. I used it for years. They're basically the same but Saitek has the overall edge IMO. It's smoother (not as sticky in the pitch axis) and feels more solidly constructed.

The built in clock/timer is a plus. The flat top is also a plus, I sit my iPad on top.

I wish the red button was on the left. That's where I'm used to having my autopilot disconnect.

 

[MyassisDragon]

I purchased one for my PPL (Microsoft FSX, Saitek yoke, throttle, pedals) and found that it didnt really help too much.
BUT when I went for my Instrument it was invaluable when it came to forcing development of my scan. My current setup is dual screen with only the instrument view on one monitor (with a 2" window on top for landing) and the radios on the other, and my ipad on the yoke for charts (just like I fly in the real world)

Kind of funny though, when the wife is watching something brain dulling and I am burned out from chores I still find my self occasionally firing it up and hopping in a DC3 with a beer in one hand navigating down the ILS with the old gauges in a severe turbulence and blowing snow.

 

[redtail]

Thanks for the idea about the rubber bands. I removed the original springs on mine because they made the tension to be, as you said, quite unrealistic in the pitch and roll axes. I'll try adding some rubber bands inside.

You're welcome. It made a world of difference for me. You may want to experiment with the amount of rubber bands to get the feel you want, so don't put all of the screws back in yet

 

[redtail]

Can you tell me more about how you modded the yoke? I just picked one up and the feel is a bit stiff for my liking.

Here's the actual guide that I used. Good luck.

http://www.sehlah.com/yoke.pdf

"OK, you can stop ignoring the rubber band now.
There are 2 arms that stick up & they have small
hooks near the end. Almost as if the designing engineer sat there thinking "Man, these springs we use really are crap! I'm gonna fix this so people can make it feel right with just a cheap little rubber band!!"

 

[Bonchie]

They've helped me a great deal, not during my PPL training, but laying a basis by which I was able to step right into actual training and move at a fast pace. I went in before my first flight knowing how to fly a pattern, how to descend, how the control surfaces work, how to control speeds on approach, what the different instruments are, and even how to set the Garmin up. All these things can be learned, to some extent, on a simulator.

As others have said, they are most valuable for IFR but you can get some really good flight dynamics these days as well. Don't just buy FSX or X-plane or Prepared3d (v2) and fly. Spend some more money and get some really good add-on planes.

A2A has recently put out a 172 with "accusim" that's killer and they are working on a Cherokee as well. It's probably the most realistic handling GA plane out there for FSX. Carenado's stuff is decent as well. Buy a good weather add-on as well. Active Sky Next is a great one and the most recently released. You'll need it to really simulate winds and different forces on the plane.
Add some rudder pedals and you'll have a platform that will help you a lot.

 

[redtail]

True, but with a powerful CPU/GPU combination, X-Plane (more accurate lakes and rivers, a high frame rate, multi-monitors + TrackIR and decent payware addon aircraft (Carenado), you can get pretty darn close.

OK you don't have to have a multi-monitor setup but it sure helps.

I just installed this Corsair H-50 liquid cooler, it's been sitting in the box for two years,lol. I built this system about three years ago but never got around to installing the Corsair.

It's an Intel i5-2500K (3.3Ghz). I'm gonna try to push it to 4.5

Although X-Plane 10 runs beautifully at 3.3, why not. Wish me luck

 

[Jayhawk]

FSX helped a lot with getting familiar with the basics before I was in training, but now I really only use it for entertainment. Though flying A2A's Boeing 377 down to minimums in a snowstorm while the passengers in back panic never gets old

Definitely don't regret spending the money for a good HOTAS though, since sims are developing incredibly fast right now. Te flight dynamics might not be spot on (or they might be, my P-51 and A-10 experience is a little low at the moment), but I still spend a lot of time in DCS-51 and A-10 when for whatever reason I'm not able to fly irl. Lot of fun to be had, but as far as training, the only real use I see is for IFR procedures.

 

[redtail]

Hey I have a question for Captain.

I see there's another version of the Piaggio Avanti II available for X-Plane 10, that came out last year. The last version that I tried was the Avanti "Alterna" for XP-9 that was released in 2009.

Are you by any chance familiar with these? Would you happen to be on the design or beta testing team for one of these? Just curious, thanks.
You do know I'm crazy about this plane

 

[Armageddon Aviator]

Here's the actual guide that I used. Good luck.

http://www.sehlah.com/yoke.pdf

"OK, you can stop ignoring the rubber band now.
There are 2 arms that stick up & they have small
hooks near the end. Almost as if the designing engineer sat there thinking "Man, these springs we use really are crap! I'm gonna fix this so people can make it feel right with just a cheap little rubber band!!"

Thanks a lot for posting this guide - definitely useful !

I will try to make the required ( and much needed ) mods with my clumsy hands...

 

[divebomber]

I have really enjoyed the G1000 sim. Any sim for your make and type is really good for understanding what instruments are doing what and when…all relative to each other. Its a good start for students to get used to understanding the dynamics of steam gauges and if you are in G1000 certainly helps understand how to use the systems for a hell of a lot less $ that literally on the fly…
www.pilotjournalnotebook.com

 

[redtail]

Thanks a lot for posting this guide - definitely useful !

I will try to make the required ( and much needed ) mods with my clumsy hands...

You're welcome.

Funny thing is, it wasn't until I started flying again two years ago that I realized I needed to 'fix' my flightsim yoke. That's when I ran across this guide. Saitek should hire this guy.

 

[marcoseddi]

I purchased one for my PPL (Microsoft FSX, Saitek yoke, throttle, pedals) and found that it didnt really help too much.
BUT when I went for my Instrument it was invaluable when it came to forcing development of my scan. My current setup is dual screen with only the instrument view on one monitor (with a 2" window on top for landing) and the radios on the other, and my ipad on the yoke for charts (just like I fly in the real world)

Kind of funny though, when the wife is watching something brain dulling and I am burned out from chores I still find my self occasionally firing it up and hopping in a DC3 with a beer in one hand navigating down the ILS with the old gauges in a severe turbulence and blowing snow.

lol that sounds awesome

 

[Captain]

Hey I have a question for Captain.

I see there's another version of the Piaggio Avanti II available for X-Plane 10, that came out last year. The last version that I tried was the Avanti "Alterna" for XP-9 that was released in 2009.

Are you by any chance familiar with these? Would you happen to be on the design or beta testing team for one of these? Just curious, thanks.
You do know I'm crazy about this plane

Not involved in any way. I do have X-Plane on my iPad and have flown the Piaggio while flying a real Piaggio. I can say the plane looks exactly right. The gear and flaps look correct and the plane even 'feels' right.

I think the term 'Alterna' is only associated with X-plane. I've never seen Piaggio Aero use that term or heard it elsewhere.

It is a crazy cool plane.

 

[redtail]

Not involved in any way. I do have X-Plane on my iPad and have flown the Piaggio while flying a real Piaggio. I can say the plane looks exactly right. The gear and flaps look correct and the plane even 'feels' right.

I think the term 'Alterna' is only associated with X-plane. I've never seen Piaggio Aero use that term or heard it elsewhere.

It is a crazy cool plane.

Oh ok, Thanks.

Yes the term 'Alterna' is the name used by the guy that programmed the upgraded model for X-Plane. He took the default plane and made over 200 tweaks and changes, turning it into a much improved model. Almost a completely new plane.

I guess it's short for Alternative.