Flight following

[Rneuwirth]

On my last solo cross-country (KGCC KSPF KCDR KGCC) I finally got up the courage to use flight following on the last leg. I loved it, and it wasn't nearly as scary as I thought it would be.

So my question is: if I'm filing my VFR flight plan for a round robin like that, can I get flight following throughout, or do I need to file each piece individually? Couls I just let Denver Center know that I'm landing for gas, change to the airfield frequency, and then get back on with Center when I'm back in the air?

Next xc planned for Tuesday, so any help will be appreciated.

 

[TripleZ]

Depends on how busy they are. I have kept the same transponder code, landed, and once back in the air, picked up FF again.

Just let them know what your doing. They will either have your squawk VFR or keep the same code.

 

[pericynthion]

VFR flight plans and flight following are completely separate and unrelated. You don't need to file a flight plan to get flight following, and ATC don't even know that you've filed and can't see the plan.

If I were doing a touch and go somewhere I might tell Center and ask if I should stay on the squawk; if I were landing for gas I would cancel and pick up a fresh code on the way out.

 

[COFlyBoy]

Center will end flight following when they switch you to the local frequency, but no biggie, just call them up again after you take off.

There is no formal flight plan that ATC is tracking, so there aren't rules about starting and stopping flight following. ATC will provide the service if their workload allows it. Otherwise they may spontaneously say "Radar service terminated, squawk VFR"

 

[nosehair]

A VFR flight plan has nothing to do with flight following.

The VFR flight plan that you file just stays tucked away somewhere on record so that they have a plan to look at if you don't show up at the destination ETA. As long as you close out, the plan is never looked at.

Flight following is talking to a guy on radar who does not know whether or not you filed a flight plan or not. He just responds to your in-flight request for flight following.

You can file your flight plan round-robin and get flight following for all of it or any part that you choose.

 

[Clark1961]

On my last solo cross-country (KGCC KSPF KCDR KGCC) I finally got up the courage to use flight following on the last leg. I loved it, and it wasn't nearly as scary as I thought it would be.

So my question is: if I'm filing my VFR flight plan for a round robin like that, can I get flight following throughout, or do I need to file each piece individually? Couls I just let Denver Center know that I'm landing for gas, change to the airfield frequency, and then get back on with Center when I'm back in the air?

Next xc planned for Tuesday, so any help will be appreciated.

Flight following is easy, just call the airspace owner and request it. It really doesn't matter if you tell Center that you'll be back with them shortly or not. The thing to watch for over the plains is to be high enough for them to "see" you on radar. No radar, no FF.

 

[ScottM]

So my question is: if I'm filing my VFR flight plan for a round robin like that, can I get flight following throughout, or do I need to file each piece individually? C

Filing a VFR flight plan has nothing to do with your ability to get flight following. ATC does not even see your VFR flight plan.

The way to get FF when VFR for your whole route is to just ask for it to your destination. But even then you may only get it for one section of the flight.

For example I flew VFR yesterday from the NW side of the Chicago metro area to Indianapolis. Chicago Approach never responded to my request for FF because their radios are incapable of hearing aircraft that are less than 12,500 lbs. But when I got to Chicago Center's airspace I request FF to KEYE and they gave me a squawk code that I knew was going to keep me in FF for the entire route of flight. Indeed it did too. Chi-Center arranged for a handoff to Grissom App, who turn handed me off to Indy App.

But on the way home I had to request FF from each ATC unit. They only gave me local squawks and did not do handoffs. IOW YMMV with your request.

Usually when you do not get FF for your whole route of flight the ATC person you are talking to will tell you radar services are terminated and then will offer a suggestion of who to contact and on what frequency to request continued FF.

 

[Rneuwirth]

Thanks everyone. I really did think that Center did have my flight plan available!

 

[ScottM]

Thanks everyone. I really did think that Center did have my flight plan available!

For VFR Flight plans only FSS sees it.

That is why when you request FF they will ask you for information like your aircraft type, destination, route or none of the above. They want to start a strip on you.

If you file an IFR flight plan then ATC will get a strip printed out to them with all of that info on it.

 

[VTC_WS6]

I was a little nervous at first too, but having used FF enough it's been nothing but a big help, especially flying into heavy traffic areas like MIA. At this point, unless i'm putting around my local field, I'm always on with FF, best way to fly imo!

 

[Sac Arrow]

By the way, FSS frowns on round robin flight plans. They prefer you file separate plans for each leg of a flight. (I did that once, and when I had to amend my flight plan after the first leg, they frowned on it and said they preferred if I filed separate flight plans for each leg of the flight.)

 

[bobmrg]

By the way, FSS frowns on round robin flight plans. They prefer you file separate plans for each leg of a flight. (I did that once, and when I had to amend my flight plan after the first leg, they frowned on it and said they preferred if I filed separate flight plans for each leg of the flight.)

Right. AIM 6-2-7(g).

Bob Gardner

 

[denverpilot]

By the way, FSS frowns on round robin flight plans. They prefer you file separate plans for each leg of a flight. (I did that once, and when I had to amend my flight plan after the first leg, they frowned on it and said they preferred if I filed separate flight plans for each leg of the flight.)

I think they don't want to enter the data.

But... I will add here that us SAR folks also frown on it. Think search area.

 

[Artiom]

If you are taking off from controlled field you can request flight following when you talk to ground. After getting taxi instructions say you request flight following and they will get you squawk code and departure frequency while you are taxiing and running up. At some point tower will tell you to switch to departure frequency. I've only been refused to get on flight following from the ground once at Castle on open cockpit day when one guy worked tower and ground and had a lot of traffic around.

 

[roncachamp]

If you are taking off from controlled field you can request flight following when you talk to ground. After getting taxi instructions say you request flight following and they will get you squawk code and departure frequency while you are taxiing and running up. At some point tower will tell you to switch to departure frequency. I've only been refused to get on flight following from the ground once at Castle on open cockpit day when one guy worked tower and ground and had a lot of traffic around.

Open cockpit day?

 

[denverpilot]

At really busy places I've looked up Clearance Delivery and done it that way, too. You can't tell from the ramp usually if Ground and CD are the same controller, as they often are, but CD makes more sense as long as you're very clear that you're VFR and just looking for Flight Following/RADAR Advisories.

Doing this also seems to put you "in the system" in some fashion, and your track will show up on FlightAware. Airborne FF as a "pop-up" gives wildly varying results for tracking purposes. On a recent flight, I asked in-flight for FF from DEN TRACON and my "origination" point on FlightAware ended up being KDEN.

I thought that was funny, and it confused at least one other pilot friend who was watching my tail number. "You departed from DEN?!"

 

[Artiom]

Open cockpit day?

Castle airport (KMER) is located next door to Castle Air museum. Twice a year on Memorial day and Labor day the museum has open cockpit day. A lot of people fly in and there are helicopter rides at the museum which makes traffic quite a mess. A lot of work for one controller to handle of that.

 

[roncachamp]

Castle airport (KMER) is located next door to Castle Air museum. Twice a year on Memorial day and Labor day the museum has open cockpit day. A lot of people fly in and there are helicopter rides at the museum which makes traffic quite a mess. A lot of work for one controller to handle of that.

Any idea why tower management doesn't boost staffing for an event that's known to boost traffic?

 

[Artiom]

Any idea why tower management doesn't boost staffing for an event that's known to boost traffic?

No idea. They should expect a lot of traffic during open cockpit days.
The controller did a great job managing traffic but he was busy over his head.
BTW, that was the first time I heart controller saying "Departure will be at your own risk". I'm not sure whom did he said that - fixed wing or helicopter. There is only one 12000' long runway and helicopters were coming for fuel and going back to the museum for rides. What does that mean?

 

[roncachamp]

BTW, that was the first time I heart controller saying "Departure will be at your own risk". I'm not sure whom did he said that - fixed wing or helicopter. There is only one 12000' long runway and helicopters were coming for fuel and going back to the museum for rides. What does that mean?

It was probably issued to a helicopter departing from the ramp.

 

[kimberlyanne546]

By the way, FSS frowns on round robin flight plans. They prefer you file separate plans for each leg of a flight. (I did that once, and when I had to amend my flight plan after the first leg, they frowned on it and said they preferred if I filed separate flight plans for each leg of the flight.)

Yes. When I called 800-WX-BRIEF the night before each of my dual and solo cross countries to file a flight plan, they told me to file two separate plans. Once they did the first one, however, they had most of the information they would need for the return leg plan.

Things that change on the way back:

Your altitude (even + 500 changes to odd + 500).

Your estimated time of departure.

Possibly your estimated time en route if winds are significant.

Departure point / Destination (flip flop)

Fuel on board

Alternate Airport

Destination Contact

(Things that probably don't change: type of flight, aircraft ID, aircraft type, true airspeed, route of flight)

 

[kimberlyanne546]

Note: calling the night before to file does not mean we opened it.

You open / activate the flight plan (giving them your actual takeoff time) in the air when you can get them on your radios (sometimes you have to climb).

Another way to activate the flight plan if you think you will be too busy doing other comm stuff is to call them on your cell before you start the engine. Give them an estimate such as "I'd like to open my flight plan as of fifteen minutes from now."

You can also close it in the air on your radio, on the ground on your radio (if it works), or on your cell phone after you shut down the plane.


Many options!

 

[bfergie10]

On my last solo cross-country (KGCC KSPF KCDR KGCC) I finally got up the courage to use flight following on the last leg. I loved it, and it wasn't nearly as scary as I thought it would be.

Just curious, why did you think it would be scary? Is it just mic fright? Is this something your instructor hasn't really gone over with or demonstrated before? (I'm assuming you are a student pilot)

I admit as a new low time (100+ hour) pilot that I often have to say my initial callup in my head a time or two before I key up so I don't stammer through it.

 

[Rneuwirth]

Mic fright! My home 'drome is towered, so no difficulties there, but somehow this seemed like "talking to the big boys" to me.

Pretty silly I guess, since the controllers were all great.

 

[N801BH]

Depends on how busy they are. I have kept the same transponder code, landed, and once back in the air, picked up FF again.

Just let them know what your doing. They will either have your squawk VFR or keep the same code.

If I am traveling VFR X-country and needing to stop for fuel or a 'pit stop' My experience has been ... 75% of the time I get " retain this squawk code and give us a call when airborne again" , 25% of the time I get the... " squawk VFR, freq change approved, good day." I usually find if it is close to the controllers break they will give the latter and when recontacting that facility the new guy/gal will input a fresh FF strip... IMHO...

Ps, Denver and SLC are both very FF friendly so don't be afraid to use it. There are some really great ATC people out there to help you.

Ben

 

[kimberlyanne546]

During my training, I was scared / had mic fright too, and wrote everything down (as in, word for word, what I was going to say and to whom and what they would most likely say back).

For the first time EVER last night I went without pen and paper and just "winged it" with NorCal Approach. Got a sqwak code and flight following, super easy. I didn't even have to write down the code.

 

[bfergie10]

Mic fright! My home 'drome is towered, so no difficulties there, but somehow this seemed like "talking to the big boys" to me.

Pretty silly I guess, since the controllers were all great.

Just like anything else, the more you do it, the easier it is.

 

[bluesky74656]

If you are taking off from controlled field you can request flight following when you talk to ground. After getting taxi instructions say you request flight following and they will get you squawk code and departure frequency while you are taxiing and running up. At some point tower will tell you to switch to departure frequency. I've only been refused to get on flight following from the ground once at Castle on open cockpit day when one guy worked tower and ground and had a lot of traffic around.

This has only worked for me if I'm departing a field that has it's own Approach control. From a plain Class D, for example Cuyahoga County (CGF) or Burke Lakefront (BKL), both of which lie under Cleveland's Class B, I've never gotten a squawk before takeoff, although the nice guys at County did once tell me that I could contact approach for flight following and that they were expecting me. Presumably he called them on the land line, but couldn't actually get me the code.

 

[denverpilot]

Note: calling the night before to file does not mean we opened it.

You open / activate the flight plan (giving them your actual takeoff time) in the air when you can get them on your radios (sometimes you have to climb).

Another way to activate the flight plan if you think you will be too busy doing other comm stuff is to call them on your cell before you start the engine. Give them an estimate such as "I'd like to open my flight plan as of fifteen minutes from now."

You can also close it in the air on your radio, on the ground on your radio (if it works), or on your cell phone after you shut down the plane.


Many options!

You can also open on the ground of the airport you're at has a published FSS frequency, or ask a friendly Clearance Delivery or Ground controller for assistance if they're not too busy.

I like the former. One less thing to mess with in a busy traffic environment.

Lately I've been filing with Foreflight and opening on the ground just prior to departure. It only takes a minute at start-up or run-up and if you're in a controlled area but haven't moved yet, do it early before calling Ground or monitor both frequencies in case Ground calls while you're stopped (rare). If/when you buy a handheld, it's a good way to check it out before engine start.

The only risk is to ingrain in your head if you do a run-up and scrub the flight, to call back and close it after cussing at the airplane and your bad luck and putting it away in the hangar.

 

[azure]

You can also open on the ground of the airport you're at has a published FSS frequency, or ask a friendly Clearance Delivery or Ground controller for assistance if they're not too busy.

I like the former. One less thing to mess with in a busy traffic environment.

I like it too and have used it, but it's becoming rarer and rarer around here to find a working FSS frequency reachable on the ground. I think most RCOs here in MI are OTS indefinitely, and I assume, permanently. It's getting to be where the only way to reach FSS on the ground (and over wide areas, in the air as well) is by phone.

 

[MSPAviator]

I've only used flight following twice... Once during my private training to transition Bravo, and once on a flight from RST > AUM.

Departing RST about 10 hours after I got my Private, I called Ground and requested taxi for departure. Ground asked if I wanted radar advisories and I said yes. At the time, I didn't know that meant I wanted flight following and I had nothing to write on/with when they gave me my taxi instructions, the squawk code and RST departure frequency...all spoken very quickly.

Somehow, I managed to read back my taxi instructions and squawk code correctly, set my transponder, taxied, and took off uneventfully, although I felt flustered by the unexpected workload. When tower handed me off to departure, I said "over to departure, good day!"...... then realized I had no idea what the departure frequency was. After desperately looking at the corner of my sectional (no joy) and flipping through the unofficial MN Airport Facility Directory and not finding it, I had the bright idea of calling up Tower and asking them the departure frequency about a minute later... They gave it to me, I finally contacted departure which I think was the same controller as the tower. Made it to AUM without any problems, although I didn't actually spot the airport until about 5 miles out, even with the them telling me where it was. Since it was a short hop over, I only climbed up to 2500ft.

So... I learned about flying that day.

 

[Ghery]

No idea. They should expect a lot of traffic during open cockpit days.
The controller did a great job managing traffic but he was busy over his head.
BTW, that was the first time I heart controller saying "Departure will be at your own risk". I'm not sure whom did he said that - fixed wing or helicopter. There is only one 12000' long runway and helicopters were coming for fuel and going back to the museum for rides. What does that mean?

It was probably issued to a helicopter departing from the ramp.

I hear that a lot at OLM when helicopters are departing from the ramp. Always to helicopters, never fixed wing departing from the runway.

Ps, Denver and SLC are both very FF friendly so don't be afraid to use it. There are some really great ATC people out there to help you.

Ben

Add SEA to that list. They have never turned down a FF request from me. Great folks.

 

[roncachamp]

I hear that a lot at OLM when helicopters are departing from the ramp. Always to helicopters, never fixed wing departing from the runway.

The phrase is also used with fixed wing departures from a closed runway.

 

[Jeanie]

Wouldnt a fixed wing leaving from a closed runway constitute a violation?

 

[poadeleted20]

Wouldnt a fixed wing leaving from a closed runway constitute a violation?

There's no FAR specifically governing that -- just 91.13 careless/reckless.

 

[COFlyBoy]

You can also close it in the air on your radio, on the ground on your radio (if it works), or on your cell phone after you shut down the plane.


Many options!

Or you can forget to close it and meet the Sheriff when he has to drive out to the airport to see if you're dead.

 

[kimberlyanne546]

Or you can forget to close it and meet the Sheriff when he has to drive out to the airport to see if you're dead.

I had this debate before, they said they send out the Air Force!

But yes I have "almost" forgotten (no I did not get a call from them).

Scared the crap out of me. My CFI told me that to remember to close his own flight plans he puts his watch on the wrong arm. Soon after landing, it feels "off" and then he remembers to call them.

 

[matthammer]

I had this debate before, they said they send out the Air Force!

But yes I have "almost" forgotten (no I did not get a call from them).

Scared the crap out of me. My CFI told me that to remember to close his own flight plans he puts his watch on the wrong arm. Soon after landing, it feels "off" and then he remembers to call them.

Back when I was building my XC time for my commercial certificate I'd forget to close my VFR flight plans WAY too often. We were required by our 141 school to file every time we left the practice area on an XC. I wouldn't be surprised if a few of the FSS specialists knew me by name...

They only start SAR if they can't get in contact with you or find the plane, by the way. So there really isn't TOO much to worry about as long as you left good contact info. It's gotta annoy the crap out of flight service, though.

 

[denverpilot]

I had this debate before, they said they send out the Air Force!

Actually, the Air Force Rescue Coordination Center, AFRCC at Langley who'll likely call the Sheriff and the local Civil Air Patrol folks first. Depends on the jurisdiction.

(There's another long thread about how different States and places mean different things. Quick summary: If they think you went down in US Forest Service or Bureau of Land Management land, things are going to be different than if they think you're at a suburban airport. Same thing with a National Park. All sorts of agencies to possibly be involved... it'd be quite a chart if it were all-inclusive. Coast Guard, even... in your case where you fly over water...)

I've spent many an morning/afternoon/evening doing "ramp checks" looking for a particular airplane, and/or searching for a blaring ELT. It's kinda fun sometimes. Not so much when it's below freezing outside. The vast majority end with "Aircraft located, returning home." That's good.

One of the things that has changed is that technically, ground crews for this sort of thing aren't supposed to roll out alone anymore. Even to local urban airports. I guess it's a safety thing, I haven't gotten active in ground crew stuff again yet... but I spent a lot of time looking for stuff by myself. Getting two people to show up at the same airport at midnight just ain't happening... a lot of the time.

Do folks probably bend that rule, especially in rural areas? Yeah.

What's REALLY annoying is that most airports don't really keep good records of who the contact is for a particular hangar, nor do they typically have an after-hours phone number for that type of thing. Even 24/7 airports with Operations staff running around doing things overnight, typically have crap for contact info.

One local airport spent money for Direction Finding gear in their Ops trucks, but won't train any of their (very high turn-over) staff to use it. They call us, we hop in the warm truck, and use their gear to find the silly ELT.

They have bright flashing amber lights and can run around the ramp with impunity and probably better insurance than I do, if they hit a parked airplane. I'm cool with letting them drive.

All I want to do is get ahold of the owner and tell 'em the time their ELT started, and how long it's been running and get them to come turn it off. ("It started three hours ago. You're probably going to have to buy a new battery, or change them, probably. Just letting you know.")

You'd be amazed at how many aircraft owners won't show up because they think the FAA is going to be standing there to ramp check them or something equally silly. I'm just a half-frozen volunteer who found your ELT and wants to turn it off so AFRCC will let me close out the mission and go to bed.

Best credited "Find" this year... Colorado Wing CAP found an ELT squawking on the Air Force Academy grounds in a hangar. Zoomies didn't run their post-shutdown checklist, which included "check 121.5" or maybe it was "check 243.0", either way... it was on there.

 

[roncachamp]

Wouldnt a fixed wing leaving from a closed runway constitute a violation?

Maybe, but there's no FAR specifically prohibiting the use of a closed runway. Here's the applicable paragraph from JO 7110.65:



3−3−2. CLOSED/UNSAFE RUNWAY INFORMATION

If an aircraft requests to takeoff, land, or touch-and-go

on a closed or unsafe runway, inform the pilot the
runway is closed or unsafe, and​

​

a. If the pilot persists in his/her request, quote ​

him/her the appropriate parts of the NOTAM

applying to the runway and inform him/her that a
clearance cannot be issued.​

​

b. Then, if the pilot insists and in your opinion the ​

intended operation would not adversely affect other

traffic, inform him/her that the operation will be at
his/her own risk.​

​

PHRASEOLOGY−​

RUNWAY (runway number) CLOSED/UNSAFE.

If appropriate, (quote NOTAM information),​

UNABLE TO ISSUE DEPARTURE/LANDING/TOUCH​

−​

AND−GO CLEARANCE.​

DEPARTURE/LANDING/TOUCH−AND−GO WILL BE

AT YOUR OWN RISK.

c. Except as permitted by para 4−8−7, Side-step ​

Maneuver, where parallel runways are served by

separate ILS/MLS systems and one of the runways is
closed, the ILS/MLS associated with the closed
runway should not be used for approaches unless not
using the ILS/MLS would have an adverse impact on
the operational efficiency of the airport.​

​

REFERENCE−

FAAO JO 7110.65, Para 3−10−5, Landing Clearance.
FAAO JO 7110.65, Para 4−7−12, Airport Conditions.​