Flight Following without a Transponder

darrell

darrell

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darrell
The aircraft that I have typically been flying for training has an inoperative transpoder, but my CFI would like me to use flight following services during my cross-country flights.

Is flight following service without a transponder possible (I'm confident this answer is "yes")?

Assuming it's possible, is flight following service without a transponder a good idea? That is, it seems like it would be a real pain for controllers and be more trouble than it's worth...
 
darrell said:
The aircraft that I have typically been flying for training has an inoperative transpoder, but my CFI would like me to use flight following services during my cross-country flights.

Is flight following service without a transponder possible (I'm confident this answer is "yes")?

Assuming it's possible, is flight following service without a transponder a good idea? That is, it seems like it would be a real pain for controllers and be more trouble than it's worth...
Click to expand...

I am assuming that you are not flying anywhere a transponder is required like in a Mode C veil, Class B/C, over 10,000', etc?
 
darrell said:
The aircraft that I have typically been flying for training has an inoperative transpoder, but my CFI would like me to use flight following services during my cross-country flights.

Is flight following service without a transponder possible (I'm confident this answer is "yes")?

Assuming it's possible, is flight following service without a transponder a good idea? That is, it seems like it would be a real pain for controllers and be more trouble than it's worth...
Click to expand...

Sure, flight following service without a transponder is possible, if ATC has good primary radar. But good primary radar is most often found where transponders are required, the core airports in Class B or Class C airspace. ARSRs used by ARTCCs that have primary radar generally don't show primary targets very well. Some of them are just beacon interrogators.
 
Yes, it's possible. It's a bit more work for the controller initially to identify and tag you, and subject to workload and the operability of their primary radar, but that's the controller's problem, not yours, so don't let it deter you from asking -- if they can they will, and if they can't they won't.
 
Agree with above. FF, is "workload permitting" and if they do not want to do it then they will decline.

On a related point, the first time I took the Luscombe in that Bravo shelf west of MIA that we are discussing elsewhere, I thought I would be a nice guy and let the TRACON know I was there and what my altitude was. This obviously in a Mode C Veil but the Luscombe is exempt from the transponder requirement unless actually looking to enter B/C in which case a waiver is required. It has a battery-powered radio.

So I called and they ask me to fly heading 270 for identification. I could see another airplane near so I did not mind doing that. They ID'd me, told me to remain 2000' or below (there it is again), clear of Bravo, and that was that. Did not speak to them again. What was cool is that when I called the destination tower for my initial call-up, they knew who I was and that I had no transponder. That said, I only did it like that once and did not bother on subsequent flights in that area.
 
darrell said:
The aircraft that I have typically been flying for training has an inoperative transpoder, but my CFI would like me to use flight following services during my cross-country flights.

Is flight following service without a transponder possible (I'm confident this answer is "yes")?

Assuming it's possible, is flight following service without a transponder a good idea? That is, it seems like it would be a real pain for controllers and be more trouble than it's worth...
Click to expand...
If you are the typical student pilot you have planned your flight down to the millisecond and tenth of a mile. Just be prepared for ATC to give you identifying turns off your neatly drawn course.
 
And expect to be questioned as to why you don't have mode C since you obviously have a radio...
I learned to fly long before transponders were in GA airplanes... XC by talking to ATC and giving the radial and (estimated) distance from the nearest VOR was standard procedure... Sometimes it was to report when reaching a landmark, river, whatever while on a specified radial... Sometimes they just said radar contact lost and shrugged - my problem not theirs...
My advice for your XC flight is to use the Airways and VORs... Makes it a lot easier to figure where you are exactly compared to just bombing off cross country on a compass heading and a prayer... Also makes it easier on ATC who have those airways marked on their scopes - which makes them a lot more friendly and tolerant with some poor lost soul (btdt)...
 
The original "flight following" wasn't a radar procedure. You'd just call in from time to time so they would know if you had an issue short of the ETA+30 threshold that arises from a flight plan alone.
 
Thanks for the responses. I really like the "just ask for it" vibe I'm getting. The aircraft I'm using has a transponder, it's just inoperative at the moment (don't know the exact problem) and I think the issue is a budgetary constraint. I'm doing my training at the Jax Navy Flying Club and ever since they were moved under the MWR "umbrella" funds have been an issue.

On one of my early dual-XC flights, I asked for and got FF but I never heard anything from them once I established FF until I told them I had my destination in sight and they terminated my FF. Of course, I was only with FF for about 50 miles and was in the same "sector" the whole way, so maybe that was part of it.

Also, being in the Jacksonville area, XC flights are ridiculously simple. I basically follow the coastline and I think the highest terrain I've flown over (in Florida, anyway) was maybe 200 feet, so MSL and AGL are virtually the same for all practical purposes. (Home 'drome, NAS Jax, is at 23 feet MSL)
 
darrell said:
Thanks for the responses. I really like the "just ask for it" vibe I'm getting. The aircraft I'm using has a transponder, it's just inoperative at the moment (don't know the exact problem) and I think the issue is a budgetary constraint. I'm doing my training at the Jax Navy Flying Club and ever since they were moved under the MWR "umbrella" funds have been an issue.

On one of my early dual-XC flights, I asked for and got FF but I never heard anything from them once I established FF until I told them I had my destination in sight and they terminated my FF. Of course, I was only with FF for about 50 miles and was in the same "sector" the whole way, so maybe that was part of it.

Also, being in the Jacksonville area, XC flights are ridiculously simple. I basically follow the coastline and I think the highest terrain I've flown over (in Florida, anyway) was maybe 200 feet, so MSL and AGL are virtually the same for all practical purposes. (Home 'drome, NAS Jax, is at 23 feet MSL)
Click to expand...

I got flight following, on a Bay Tour, last weekend, and they never talked to me. Another time up the coast. Sometimes, you just don't have any traffic that is a factor so they don't talk to you. It was the first time I didn't have them talk to me on a Bay Tour (usually busy airspace). When they saw me leave, they told me to squak VFR so I knew they were paying attention to me on their screen.
 
flyingron said:
The original "flight following" wasn't a radar procedure. You'd just call in from time to time so they would know if you had an issue short of the ETA+30 threshold that arises from a flight plan alone.
Click to expand...
Some places they still do it. I was flying from Coeur D'Alene back to Denver. Over the eastern Idaho/western Montana mountains, I was below radar coverage. The only FF change was that ATC gave me reporting points along the way and asked me to call in.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Some places they still do it. I was flying from Coeur D'Alene back to Denver. Over the eastern Idaho/western Montana mountains, I was below radar coverage. The only FF change was that ATC gave me reporting points along the way and asked me to call in.
Click to expand...

Yeah that's pretty empty country and not a huge amount of low-altitude radar coverage.

Between SAF and PHX there's a couple hours of flight time in my aircraft where they either can see you on radar but can't talk to you via an RCO, or vice-versa if you're below about 12,000' MSL.

Same between here and Vegas.

It's a little weird the first time you get "Radar service terminated, we'll pick you up again in about 50 miles."

It's even weirder to get, "Radio coverage is spotty in that area, and we'll lose you in about ten miles, but there is radar coverage in that area. Remain this frequency and we'll have other aircraft relay as needed. Plan to contact XXX Center on xxx.xxx when approximately 20 miles from X if we lose you. Remain on current squawk."
 
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