Flight Following and when to get it it

Bman.

Bman.

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Bman.
Hey all-

Low time pilot just now stretching my wings across the country. I have a question about flight following and who is the appropriate controller to request it from while still on the ground at parking. I have had times when tower, ground and CD have issued me a squawk code and put me in the system for flight following. With that being said, if I am at an airport with CD, should I just request flight following there? If I am VFR and ATIS does not say "All departing aircraft contact CD on freq.... " (class C airport) should I still go over to CD and get flight following and a code OR should I just request FF from ground or tower. It would seem the earlier it's requested, the better for everyone.

Last week I was departing KLOU and ground inquired if I wanted flight following to get across the class C airspace for my direction of departure. Why yes, I do, thanks. This got me thinking about who is the right person to request the FF and get a transponder code if you know you want FF immediately after departure.

Also (part II) - is there a required request that must be recorded by ATC to put me into the system specifically stating, plane type, expected altitude and destination 3 letter identifier. I've have cases where I was asked if I wanted FF to designation x and the controller simply said, squawk xxxx. Other times they have inquired and they said great "state plane type, altitude, destination" and then they issued transponder codes. So in some cases it was pretty informal, other times it was much more formal as if I was picking up IFR clearance and repeating CRAFT information back to the controller.

Thanks for the lesson.
Benjamin
 
For most Class C airports, contact CD and let them know you want FF. They will usually give you a squawk and the departure frequency.

If you're airborne and want FF the best way to do it is contact the controlling facility and state, "X approach, Sencaca 12345, position, altitude (your at and your requested cruise alt if different), request FF to destination." That gives the controller (in a nice concise and brief way) everything they need to put you in the system to give continued FF. Not all facilities/controllers are created equal. I will use that info and put you in the NAS so I can hand you off to the adjacent facility. Some will be lazy and simply type in your callsign, press the VFR button and enter. They will then give you FF to their boundary and approaching it tell you to squawk VFR, terminate radar services and tell you to contact the next facility. I think this is crappy service but hey, I'm a pilot lover.
 
Class C will usually have some of the widest differences for this matter depending on their activity level. The busier fields will likely have you call CD for squawk and departure freq., while some of the more sleepy Class C's will just use ground for this. ATIS should advise you whether or not to call CD for your departure instructions.

If I'm at a towered field, clearance delivery will be the first call to make and that's where I'd give your FF request.

Remember the order of the chain: CD, Ground, Tower, Tracon, Center.
 
You don't really need to ask for flight following especially if you have filed a flight plan (VFR and IFR flight plans are put into the system so controllers can see them). Clearance delivery will pass your destination to TRACON and once in the air TRACON will hand you over to ARTCC. If for some reason TRACON tries to release you then remind them you are on a cross country flight and give your destination. They will then hand you over to ARTCC once you reach their boundary.
 
If I anticipate a bravo transition, or I'm going over 50nm, I'll get one, or if I think I might end up pulling a pop up Ifr
 
citizen5000 said:
You don't really need to ask for flight following especially if you have filed a flight plan
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Two different things. Filing a flight plan doesn't automatically provide you with FF. The flight plan simply activates the dogs if you don't reach your destination at the proposed time. It will not give you any of the benefits that come along with FF. So yes, you do need to ask for FF regardless if you choose to file a flight plan or not. IMO you need both, if you're flying a cross-country.
 
Also, TRACON can terminate you if they want to. Has nothing to do with XC. While odds of termination slim, FF is a workload permitting service.

Edit: yeah, what R C said
 
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Bman. said:
It would seem the earlier it's requested, the better for everyone.
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Correct

While almost anyone can help you with FF, unless directed differently by ATIS I always request FF from the first controller I talk to at any airport:

"Clearance Delivery, Skylane 12345 at Atlantic with Echo VFR Flight Following Watsonville 4,500"...or same with ground if that is were you start.

If they are unable which sometimes is the case at some Deltas, they will give you the frequency of who can help ya next in line. I like to have everything in place so that on climb out it is simply a handoff vs trying to establish in the air while departing in often unfamiliar airspace.

I would NOT make that request from Tower however. CD, Ground, or wait for Approach handoff.

Out of a C, they will almost always give you a squawk to manage traffic but very well may dump ya once you are clear of Charlie if you have not requested FF. Filing a VFR Flight Plan has zero to do with Flight Following and information they may need.

How much info they request and the squawk code you receive depends if you are staying within their sectors or if you are being handed off to another TRACON or CENTER's airspace down the road. Center specifically often wants more info than a TRACON if you are just remaining local.
 
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One little thing to watch: If you get a squawk with zero as the first digit, like 0123, that is a local squawk and is only good with the local TRACON. If you're going xcountry, they may subsequently give you a "real" squawk, like 4301. But if I'm getting near the edge of their jurisdiction (about 40 miles) I'll sometimes ask: "Ferndock Approach, Bugsmasher N1234, can we get a squawk that will take us to BigCity?" Usually they will get it for you. Sometimes they will tell you to ask Center for a code (effectively a new FF request) after they hand you off.
 
In the GPS there is a page that has Center and Approach frequencies. Most of them are associated with the airport pages. They are the frequencies pilots flying IFR use to talk to ATC. Look at the page for the airport you are closest to that has approaches. For flight following use those same frequencies. They are NOT Flight Service frequencies (which are usually in there but somewhere else). Flight Service frequencies are for weather and opening flight plans.
 
airdale said:
One little thing to watch: If you get a squawk with zero as the first digit, like 0123, that is a local squawk and is only good with the local TRACON. If you're going xcountry, they may subsequently give you a "real" squawk, like 4301. But if I'm getting near the edge of their jurisdiction (about 40 miles) I'll sometimes ask: "Ferndock Approach, Bugsmasher N1234, can we get a squawk that will take us to BigCity?" Usually they will get it for you. Sometimes they will tell you to ask Center for a code (effectively a new FF request) after they hand you off.
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Not true for everywhere. My large TRACON has a 51xx local VFR subset.
 
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mscard88 said:
ATC knows nothing about a VFR flight plan. VFR flights are not put into the system.
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I don't think this is always true, I've had the tower prompt me before that they see my VFR flight plan and asked me if I wanted them to activate it. Maybe if they're bored there is somewhere they can look and see these?
 
exncsurfer said:
I don't think this is always true, I've had the tower prompt me before that they see my VFR flight plan and asked me if I wanted them to activate it. Maybe if they're bored there is somewhere they can look and see these?
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Maybe, in my 15+ years at tower's and TRACON I've never seen one.
 
exncsurfer said:
I don't think this is always true, I've had the tower prompt me before that they see my VFR flight plan and asked me if I wanted them to activate it. Maybe if they're bored there is somewhere they can look and see these?
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This isn't the first time I've heard this. I doubt if it is going to be routine any time soon, but the capability to do so with a button push or two is no surprise anymore than all of us talking about here from all over the country is.
 
exncsurfer said:
I don't think this is always true, I've had the tower prompt me before that they see my VFR flight plan and asked me if I wanted them to activate it. Maybe if they're bored there is somewhere they can look and see these?
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When I was starting out and only filing VFR plans, I was told that tower could "technically" activate a VFR flight plan as a courtesy. But to do so means they would have to get on the horn with FSS and do it since the plan doesn't exist in the system.

Maybe a controller can clarify, but the only way I could think that tower would know about your flight plan ahead of time would either be to find it somewhere in FSS or if you were getting flight following, told ground about it and they created a route that tower somehow noticed. Maybe tower assumed that since you had a route that you also had a flight plan?

To the OP, I usually file IFR flight plans if I go more than a couple hundred miles from my home base.

If I'm going across the state (FL) or somewhere local, I'll pick up VFR flight following occasionally, but usually I just go 1200.
 
Bman. said:
Hey all-

Low time pilot just now stretching my wings across the country. I have a question about flight following and who is the appropriate controller to request it from while still on the ground at parking. I have had times when tower, ground and CD have issued me a squawk code and put me in the system for flight following. With that being said, if I am at an airport with CD, should I just request flight following there? If I am VFR and ATIS does not say "All departing aircraft contact CD on freq.... " (class C airport) should I still go over to CD and get flight following and a code OR should I just request FF from ground or tower. It would seem the earlier it's requested, the better for everyone.

Last week I was departing KLOU and ground inquired if I wanted flight following to get across the class C airspace for my direction of departure. Why yes, I do, thanks. This got me thinking about who is the right person to request the FF and get a transponder code if you know you want FF immediately after departure.

Also (part II) - is there a required request that must be recorded by ATC to put me into the system specifically stating, plane type, expected altitude and destination 3 letter identifier. I've have cases where I was asked if I wanted FF to designation x and the controller simply said, squawk xxxx. Other times they have inquired and they said great "state plane type, altitude, destination" and then they issued transponder codes. So in some cases it was pretty informal, other times it was much more formal as if I was picking up IFR clearance and repeating CRAFT information back to the controller.

Thanks for the lesson.
Benjamin
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Yeah. Sometimes they want more information than other times. Sometimes they seem to want most of the info that would be in a flight plan and other times a radio and transponder is all that is needed. The differences have to do with how ATC is going to handle you and how "automated" the Tower is. Some Towers are really just another "sector" at approach control as far as data processing goes and will get all the info in and just "hand you off" to approach. Others are not and Approach will get that done after you're in the air and talkin to them. There is no "pat answer" to this question. It changes from place to place and sometimes from time to time at one place. Someone above said when in doubt just make the request to the first ATC person you talk to. Good advice. ATIS should be your first stop. If it doesn't give specific instructions than Ground is going to be your next stop. They may get you set with a beacon code and departure frequency or they may just tell you to contact Approach after you depart with your request.
 
Radar Contact said:
Maybe, in my 15+ years at tower's and TRACON I've never seen one.
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You can tell it's in the system if you contact FSS for a pre-flight briefing and they bring it up. If they don't see it they will ask you for your planned route of flight and souls on board etc. and enter one for you.

TRACON and ARTCC may not pull up a VFR flight plan but they will automatically provide flight following if you communicate a long waypoint that hints you will need to stay with them.
 
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Also, apparently not all towers can arrange flight following. Or mine just won't. KCGI wants you to contact center after departure to ask for it.
 
Mistake Not... said:
Also, apparently not all towers can arrange flight following. Or mine just won't. KCGI wants you to contact center after departure to ask for it.
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Correct. Many towers either don't have the functionality or aren't allowed to put you in for flight following. All radar facilities can.
 
Not doubting you, at all. But this is one of the reasons I'm looking for to the instrument rating. I look at it as a way to get flight following that I can't be turned down for. And the tower that won't give me FF will give me an IFR clearance (with transponder code), right? So why the one and not the other?
 
Don't know how many times it's been said but ATC cannot see your VFR flight plan. The AFSS computer doesn't send it to a NAS ATC facility. Only IFRs do that. The purpose of a VFR flight plan is for SAR provided by AFSS and not for FF on the ATC end.

Now, there's the whole checking the IFR block and then putting a VFR altitude in to force the flight plan to the NAS but that a different animal. FAA chief counsel letter (Goodish)has issues with that method though. :(

The "flight plan" ATC types into the computer isn't a true flight plan either. Its just used to get an NAS code and allow automation (handoffs) between facilities. Has nothing to do with SAR.
 
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Mistake Not... said:
Not doubting you, at all. But this is one of the reasons I'm looking for to the instrument rating. I look at it as a way to get flight following that I can't be turned down for. And the tower that won't give me FF will give me an IFR clearance (with transponder code), right? So why the one and not the other?
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Yeah. Filing IFR and getting a clearance is a way to ensure someone is keeping track of you and will initiate SAR sooner rather than later if you go down. If that's all you want it for, file and request OTP. That way they don't have to separate you from other IFR traffic and it can reduce delays and get you shortcuts sometimes. As far as why some towers will precordinate FF and others don't can be anything from workload to just the preferences of the controllers and management at that facility as well as equipment. Some towers have limited computer connectivity to Approach and or Center. They will have to verbally get your clearance from them before issuing it to you. These places aren't real likely to get on the phone to precoordinate VFR requests.
 
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Mistake Not... said:
Not doubting you, at all. But this is one of the reasons I'm looking for to the instrument rating. I look at it as a way to get flight following that I can't be turned down for. And the tower that won't give me FF will give me an IFR clearance (with transponder code), right? So why the one and not the other?
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Since I fly in the NY B, depending on where I'm going, it's way easier to depart VFR and get flight following rather than filing. Usually going north or south filing, doesn't take you too much off course but westbound can be a pain. I go VFR as much as I can.
 
Mistake Not... said:
Not doubting you, at all. But this is one of the reasons I'm looking for to the instrument rating. I look at it as a way to get flight following that I can't be turned down for. And the tower that won't give me FF will give me an IFR clearance (with transponder code), right? So why the one and not the other?
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The flip side of that is, they may "have" to give you an instrument clearance, but they don't have to do it in a reasonable time. Especially at smaller airports near larger ones, you get holds for release every FN time. It's much faster to launch VFR.

I've only been turned down for flight following twice. Once was when a 777 crashed 20 miles away at SFO, closing the airport, just a few minutes earlier. You can bet Approach had its hands full with hundreds of diversions. I think I can cut them a little slack from that one. The other was an obvious arrival slam; I heard airliner after airliner check in with enough frequency that I couldn't get a word in edgewise.

Tower doesn't give you a code. They relay it from Approach or Center. A clearance is presumably higher priority.
 
When not to get FF...MVFR flying where you need to make heading and altitude changes, while monitoring weather.
 
RV10flyer said:
When not to get FF...MVFR flying where you need to make heading and altitude changes, while monitoring weather.
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A high workload environment is EXACTLY when you should have FF. You are VFR, you are free to fly whatever heading and altitude you want...even on FF.
 
Shawn said:
A high workload environment is EXACTLY when you should have FF. You are VFR, you are free to fly whatever heading and altitude you want...even on FF.
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Hmmmm. You probably didn't mean this the way it sounds. I don't think your free to cruise at 5000 feet due west or sight see at 1000 feet back and forth over a class B airport.
 
Shawn said:
A high workload environment is EXACTLY when you should have FF. You are VFR, you are free to fly whatever heading and altitude you want...even on FF.
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You are correct about hdg and alt on most flights. My workload decreases when I'm not hearing, "Radar contact lost, garbled transmissions, try this freq, say intentions, do you have the weather, altimeter setting, etc". ATC is always great, but there are times when I am better off canceling FF. It is rare that I fly low and even more rare to see or hear other vfr aircraft out on those days. We are usually at at 8.5 or higher on most trips and almost always get FF for those.
 
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The request for info from the pilot by the controller is to enter the information into ARTS or STARS for data block or strip purposes. Depending on how that facility deals with each FF type will determine what they need. The data blocks and strips (unless otherwise locally designed) require the type. The direction of flight determines which runway and departure to send you to and further informs the departure controller how to handle you outbound.

If sometimes someone doesn't ask for it all it's because, for some reason, they don't need it all.

Important to remember!!!!!. Giving the tower info for a VFR FF flight or giving tower info for an IFR clearance as a quick IFR file or getting a pop up IFR with radar DOES NOT file with flight service. These are not the same as filing a flight plan with flight service where you will give your name, address, plane color, alternate airports, etc. Let's say you are VFR and ask for an IFR to some airport, the controllers will put you into the computer system but they will generally NOT ask nor care about any alternate airport that you would have otherwise had to file had you files with FS.

tex
 
Salty said:
Hmmmm. You probably didn't mean this the way it sounds. I don't think your free to cruise at 5000 feet due west or sight see at 1000 feet back and forth over a class B airport.
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Yeah...not totally free!

My point being that there seems to be a perception that FF is for only straight and level on long cross country flights and you can not deviate which is not at all the case. You can be low and slow doing loopdie loops or even just training maneuvers and still on FF which to me is the perfect time to have another set of eyes looking out for you.

I just did a low flight under ceilings zipping down valleys and constant altitude changes to be as high as I could while still remaining VFR and ATC was a great help with with what traffic there was and with coordinating transitions through deltas and restricted airspace along the route.

Buit yeah, there are times where is it nice not to have all the chatter in your ears!
 
Shawn said:
Yeah...not totally free!

My point being that there seems to be a perception that FF is for only straight and level on long cross country flights and you can not deviate which is not at all the case. You can be low and slow doing loopdie loops or even just training maneuvers and still on FF which to me is the perfect time to have another set of eyes looking out for you.

I just did a low flight under ceilings zipping down valleys and constant altitude changes to be as high as I could while still remaining VFR and ATC was a great help with with what traffic there was and with coordinating transitions through deltas and restricted airspace along the route.

Buit yeah, there are times where is it nice not to have all the chatter in your ears!
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Your point is made. As someone often flying under a bravo shelf, I tend to think of FF as a rigid system, which isn't really accurate.
 
Shawn said:
Yeah...not totally free!

My point being that there seems to be a perception that FF is for only straight and level on long cross country flights and you can not deviate which is not at all the case. You can be low and slow doing loopdie loops or even just training maneuvers and still on FF which to me is the perfect time to have another set of eyes looking out for you.

I just did a low flight under ceilings zipping down valleys and constant altitude changes to be as high as I could while still remaining VFR and ATC was a great help with with what traffic there was and with coordinating transitions through deltas and restricted airspace along the route.

Buit yeah, there are times where is it nice not to have all the chatter in your ears!
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Yeah, I do almost everything under flight following. Even looking for ELTs, which requires things like steep turns and following a direction finder with an unknown destination. I'll do airwork, flight training, search maneuvers, photos, whatever. Usually no problem unless I want to take photos around Altamont Pass (the Livermore ILS gets in the way).

Just about the only thing I don't use flight following for is very short transition flights. Like relocating an aircraft to a neighboring airport, where I'll just transition from one tower frequency to another. Though some people do it even for that (it doesn't mean a whole lot, though). Just recently, I was right seat when the PIC asked for flight following from Oakland to Palo Alto, a distance of 17 miles, maybe two of which were outside Class C and D.
 
Velocity173 said:
Don't know how many times it's been said but ATC cannot see your VFR flight plan. The AFSS computer doesn't send it to a NAS ATC facility. Only IFRs do that. The purpose of a VFR flight plan is for SAR provided by AFSS and not for FF on the ATC end.

Now, there's the whole checking the IFR block and then putting a VFR altitude in to force the flight plan to the NAS but that a different animal. FAA chief counsel letter (Goodish)has issues with that method though. :(

The "flight plan" ATC types into the computer isn't a true flight plan either. Its just used to get an NAS code and allow automation (handoffs) between facilities. Has nothing to do with SAR.
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I know historically that's how its always worked.

I can promise you on my mother's life that I've filed on Lockmart before leaving the house and had Daytona and Orlando both ask me if I wanted to activate my VFR flight plan when calling for Flight Following. Come to think of it, pretty dang sure Gainesville did also.
 
jaybee said:
I know historically that's how its always worked.

I can promise you on my mother's life that I've filed on Lockmart before leaving the house and had Daytona and Orlando both ask me if I wanted to activate my VFR flight plan when calling for Flight Following. Come to think of it, pretty dang sure Gainesville did also.
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Just talked to DAB tower. They do not get VFR flight plans from LM. Meaning, no strip prints up in tower or TRACON on your flight plan. He said they can activate it if they have time. That ability has always existed. It's a landline call to AFSS that takes maybe 30 secs.

Brother is a current TRACON controller and he also said they don't get VFR flight plans. He mentioned what I said about filing IFR on DUATS and putting VFR/xx in altitude but once again, that's not a VFR flight plan. According to the CC Goodish letter, that's not authorized. That's a topic for a whole other thread though.
 
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Velocity173 said:
Brother is a current TRACON controller and he also said they don't get VFR flight plans. He mentioned what I said about filing IFR on DUATS and putting VFR/xx in altitude but once again, that's not a VFR flight plan. According to the CC Goodish letter, that's not authorized. That's a topic for a whole other thread though.
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Just to be completely accurate, the Goodish letter doesn't say it's N/A. It says doing that shows "intent to operate under IFR" or some such wording. Meaning, if you cause a deal of some sort and they investigate, they can come after you IF you are not IFR legal. But using that technique by itself is not illegal.

And I wonder what they would do in the DC SFRA, since as I understand it, that technique is routine, and in fact mandatory, for VFR aircraft departing a field that is located within the FRZ.
 
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