Flight Computer help please.

Discussion in 'Pilot Training' started by Utah-Jay, Jul 22, 2020.

  1. Utah-Jay

    Utah-Jay Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I will admit, I HATE my dial and slide E6B and love my ASA CX-3 digital computer.

    It seems the only problem I can’t solve on the digital CX-3 is the one pictured below. Is it possible or do I need to use the non-digital computer for this calculation?

    37439F46-48FD-4611-AC94-EC6B48F50E1F.jpeg
     
  2. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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  3. dmspilot

    dmspilot En-Route

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    The FAA does not ask any questions like that (finding true altitude) on the written test. I'm interested to know what book this is.
     
  4. Utah-Jay

    Utah-Jay Pre-takeoff checklist

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    You mean I’m wasting my time on some of this stuff???

    I am using the Gleim ground school, both books and online practice tests
     
  5. dmspilot

    dmspilot En-Route

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    I've never seen the FAA talk about how to "find corrected (approximately true) altitude", that is simply not terminology they use, and I wouldn't even know how to do it.

    Not saying you're wasting any time, except for this particular question.
     
  6. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    @Zhunter ... is this private pilot or instrument?

    And Gleim is usually pretty good at providing “how to solve” info in the text as well as some examples. Was any help there?
     
  7. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Pinging Russ (@write-stuff) to see if he can comment on this question based on What is in the Gold Seal Ground School content.
     
  8. Utah-Jay

    Utah-Jay Pre-takeoff checklist

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    This is Sport Pilot, as we will be flying Bush Planes to fish
     
  9. Utah-Jay

    Utah-Jay Pre-takeoff checklist

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    @AggieMike88
    Gleim was great using the dial and slide E6B, but they don’t delve into the digital E6B computer so that is the problem.

    I feel that some of this whole study thing is WAY too deep... I mean do I really need to know that some instruments are gyroscopes and some are diaphragm? Do I really need to understand the engine crankshaft etc....???? I don’t think so. I will be flying a glass cockpit, so reading the +/- 10,000’ altimeter is not really important as I will be flying less than 2000’ AGL 99% of the time.

    I get it, you need to learn it for the test.

    Botton line is I can fly the plane well and do so in a very coordinated manner.

    YES, weather is super important and that will kill you in the mountains (yes I live at 5,800’ with high DA in the summer).

    Just seems some of this stuff is overkill.

    That being said, I am memorizing it all.
     
  10. bflynn

    bflynn Final Approach

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    So, out of curiosity, how do you do these problems on an E6B? I don't see that it's possible because I don't see a way to convert pressure/density altitudes.
     
  11. kath

    kath Administrator Management Council Member

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    Hi, @Zhunter,
    I'm going to respectfully disagree with you here. Yes, you *do* need to know about how your aircraft's systems work in particular, and how instruments and systems work generally. Sure, you don't use this knowledge most days, when you're flying happily along and everything's going great. But instruments fail. Engines fail. What's worse is when they only "partially" fail or just start acting strangely. When that happens, you become a systems diagnostician, and you bet your sweet certificate you'll want to know how those systems work.

    Secondly... sure, *today* you don't plan to fly anything other than glass, or above 2000 feet much. But when you get this license, it'll entitle you to fly all kinds of things, at all kinds of altitudes and in all kinds of conditions. Glass or 6-pack, high or low... The FAA (and your fellow pilots out here) want to know that you have certain fundamentals. That you can go to a high-altitude airport and use performance data. That you understand the difference between GPS altitude and indicated altitude. That you know what a gyroscopic instrument can and cannot do. Or at least, that you know enough to know what questions to ask *before* climbing into an unfamiliar plane.

    So yeah, some of the calculations they make you practice for these written tests are inane. I hear where you're coming from there, understand your frustration. But keep the bigger picture in mind. Concepts of density altitude? Essential. Knowledge of aircraft systems? Essential. Anybody can fly a plane coordinated.

    Good luck,
     
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  12. Utah-Jay

    Utah-Jay Pre-takeoff checklist

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    @kath

    I agree with you on most fronts. Where I live you absolutely need to understand the different altitudes (True, Absolute, Indicated, Pressure and Density), I totally need to understand the 6 Pack and the Glass, and how to navigate accordingly. I don’t feel I need to know the inside workings of a gyro and which plane the gyro rotates on, nor do I need to understand the inner workings of a diaphragm gauge. I absolutely need to know what to do IF and when one fails to deal with it in a safe manner for myself and the other pilots out there.

    I/we are getting a plane to fly low and slow for backcountry fly fishing. Not cross country, I doubt anyone, or many anyway, would want to fly far in a 100 MPH crushing plane.

    But yes I am frustrated with some things that at least to me seem unrelated to my safe and competent flying.

    @bflynn
    The Gleim book shows how to solve the problem with the traditional E6B. It was not hard, just a bit tedious while I was waiting on the CX-3 to arrive via Amazon. So yes it is doable. Necessary? Not really, easiest thing to do is to make the wind corrections via Pilotage and get back on your VOR course if you don’t have GPS. Navigation is not rocket science it seems. I am very familiar with GPS navigation, the VOR/DME is a bit newer, but not tough to learn and become competent.

    Over all this ground school has been a fun challenge.
     
  13. Larry in TN

    Larry in TN Pattern Altitude

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    Here's the part of the E6B where you make density altitude calculation (right side) and true altitude (left side).

    [​IMG]

    I preferred the CR-3 style mechanical computer over the E6B. It (at least the CR-5 size) fit in a shirt pocket and it would also do true airspeed and mach number calculations that account for compressability and calculate ram rise.

    [​IMG]
     
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  14. dmspilot

    dmspilot En-Route

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    I don't know how you can know how to recognize failures without knowing how they work. Seems like more effort would be wasted in trying to avoid learning. You might do yourself a favor by not being so resistant to knowledge.
     
  15. Utah-Jay

    Utah-Jay Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Resistance? That might be an exaggeration. I don’t have a choice as it’s required for the test. My goal is 100% on the written. Realistic? I’m not gonna settle first mediocre.

    when in flight I don’t see the use of knowing that the diaphragm is not working, my first guess would be clogged Pitot.

    Not like you’re gonna fix it in flight as PIC
     
  16. Utah-Jay

    Utah-Jay Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I think the point of this thread has drifted
     
  17. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    It's not a true PoA thread unless the needle has a 3-dot deflection to one side, then suddenly full deflection to the other.
     
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  18. bflynn

    bflynn Final Approach

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    So, how is the E6B used to solve these problems? I know where the window is, but when I set altitude and temp, I get nothing like the answers given.
     
  19. Deelee

    Deelee Line Up and Wait

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    Oh man that made me spit coffee out of my nose I LOL'ed so hard! So true.

    Back to the OP's point - My take on it - you most certainly need to learn the material from a practical perspective for the checkride (oral and flight) and way beyond - you will want to become an expert in flying the airplane, systems, weather, navigation, etc.

    But for the written - Get an app, memorize the questions and pass it. Drill-and-kill. Get that perfect score, then impress the DPE with the practical knowledge you have attained.
     
  20. Trogdor

    Trogdor Pre-Flight

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    Works for me. Match the temp and pressure then lookup indicated on the dial and the numbers pop right up.

    Btw, I love love E6B. Sorry, I do.
     
  21. Larry in TN

    Larry in TN Pattern Altitude

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    Me, too. Well, I'm just under 100' off on each one. I think my CR-3 has picked up a little warp over the decades.

    Make sure you're using the "True Altitude" windows, not the "True Airspeed/Density Altitude" ones, to align the Pressure Altitude and Temperature. Then Calibrated Altitude is on the inner-ring and True Altitude is on the outer-ring.
     
  22. Arnold

    Arnold Line Up and Wait

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    Ditto though at 90 mph the compressibility and ram rise are insignificant. Still prefer the CR-3 style easy single handed calculations as my lady friend is only just now learning her first officer duties, like flying straight and level. Yes, even voice activated autopilots sometimes fail.
     
  23. Larry in TN

    Larry in TN Pattern Altitude

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    They are. And, with modern avionics in the jets, you have SAT, TAT, and TAS all calculated for you. Nice to know how to do the calculations yourself, though.
     
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