Flat earthers

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Chip Sylverne said:
I think at the root of this is the current populist notion of rejecting expertise.
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When the experts stray beyond their area of expertise and join political or popular trends, people lose confidence and become skeptical. Most people don’t see science beyond what’s presented on television or news, so the influence of those seeking attention in the media disproportionately shapes opinions.
If the people truly believed all the scare mongering presented them, they’d become skitzo. I honestly don’t think flat-earthers really believe it. I think it’s a parody of an increasing skepticism of knowledge and science by regular folks.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
IMHO.....indoctrination ain't a good thingy. Mostly edumacation these days is indoctrination vs. education (both sides of the story needs to be taught). o_O
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The definition of indoctrination is to accept what is as an article of faith. Now, I don't have children, but in my business I get to interact with a lot of smart kids. They question...ooh do they question.
When I hear "prove it" , that's a good thing.
 
Chip Sylverne said:
That's a pretty broad indictment for a society that has maybe 3,500 adherents in a nation of 350 million. How do you know these folks weren't home schooled, or schooled in primarily religious settings (the world is flat because the Good Book tells us so).

I think at the root of this is the current populist notion of rejecting expertise. Seems anyone's opinion is just as valid as scientific method these days.
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No it doesn't.
Before you make cracks about the Bible, you should actually read it.
 
Cooter said:
When the experts stray beyond their area of expertise and join political or popular trends, people lose confidence and become skeptical. Most people don’t see science beyond what’s presented on television or news, so the influence of those seeking attention in the media disproportionately shapes opinions.
If the people truly believed all the scare mongering presented them, they’d become skitzo. I honestly don’t think flat-earthers really believe it. I think it’s a parody of an increasing skepticism of knowledge and science by regular folks.
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To an extent I agree, there is such a thing as junk science, and political agenda. That's supposed to be the function of peer review, to weed that out. A lot of stuff hits the media, minus the peer review portion. We all should be skeptical what we read, hear and see.

Having said that, I also think there is a portion of those members who are true believers.
 
Shepherd said:
No it doesn't.
Before you make cracks about the Bible, you should actually read it.
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Firstly, I have read the bible. I was schooled by the Jesuits until high school. Secondly, that wasn't a crack. If you google the flat earthers, much of the basis of their belief is founded in a literal translation, " four corners of the Earth and such".
 
Chip Sylverne said:
That's a pretty broad indictment for a society that has maybe 3,500 adherents in a nation of 350 million. How do you know these folks weren't home schooled, or schooled in primarily religious settings (the world is flat because the Good Book tells us so).

I think at the root of this is the current populist notion of rejecting expertise. Seems anyone's opinion is just as valid as scientific method these days.
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This is an uninformed bias against religious educational institutes. I earned one of my degrees from a Baptist university, Samford U, and the education I received there was easily on a par with my other universities, Ga Tech and UCF. Samford regularly places well in college rankings. To imply that religion-based education is somehow inferior is, frankly, a mistake.

Do you diss Notre Dame because it's a Catholic school? How about SMU? I could go on, but I hope you get my point.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/samford-university-1036

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Half Fast said:
This is an uniformed bias against religious educational institutes. I earned one of my degrees from a Baptist university, Samford U, and the education I received there was easily on a par with my other universities, Ga Tech and UCF. Samford regularly places well in college rankings. To imply that religion-based education is somehow inferior is, frankly, a mistake.

Do you diss Notre Dame because it's a Catholic school? How about SMU? I could go on, but I hope you get my point.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/samford-university-1036

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He said “primarily religious settings.” Primarily. I don’t think Stanford, Norte Dame et al would be considered as “religion-based education.”
 
Chip Sylverne said:
If you google the flat earthers, much of the basis of their belief is founded in a literal translation, " four corners of the Earth and such".
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I’ve done very little reading on the flat-earthers, but the ones I’ve seen are atheist that question our ability to know. I’m sure plenty of groups are represented.
Chip Sylverne said:
The definition of indoctrination is to accept what is as an article of faith.
When I hear "prove it" , that's a good thing.
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Not trying to be argumentative but have you considered that your trust in your ability to know is itself taken on faith? How can you really know that what you think you know is true?:eek2:
 
Cooter said:
I honestly don’t think flat-earthers really believe it. I think it’s a parody of an increasing skepticism of knowledge and science by regular folks.
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That's pretty much what I've always assumed... but looking at their website, I'm just not sure. I imagine it is that for some, maybe others do it to take a contrarian position for socratic reasons (i.e. to challenge people to defend their belief rationally instead of just saying "everyone knows it's round"). But I would not be surprised if a fair number of them actually believe it.

And if so, that's beyond sad.
 
Shepherd said:
No it doesn't.
Before you make cracks about the Bible, you should actually read it.
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If it did, the intelligentsia of the Catholic Church from the early middle ages would have all been heretics. Pretty sure it was advisers from the Church who recommended that Ferdinand and Isabella deny Columbus's proposal for a westward expedition to India... not because they thought it was impossible, but because they knew that Columbus's estimate of the distance was way too low.
 
prolly some of the same folks who think the moon landing was a Hollywood stunt.....:confused:
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
IMHO.....indoctrination ain't a good thingy. Mostly edumacation these days is indoctrination vs. education (both sides of the story needs to be taught). o_O
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"Both" sides? There are many religions. Should they ALL be taught in science class?
 
FYI people who believe bible teaches flat earth are seriously mentally impaired. Isaiah 40:22 "There is One (God) who dwells above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers." In Ancient Hebrew there was no specific word for sphere. Job 26:7 "God stretches the northern sky over empty space and hangs the earth on nothing." ON NOTHING, Not the back of a turtle, Not the back of some mythological man... Nothing.
 
Palmpilot said:
"Both" sides? There are many religions. Should they ALL be taught in science class?
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This is the point on POA when it becomes an attack on religion, which is ok with the mods. But when I say that science itself has become a religion, it becomes religious or political and I get a warning and the thread is locked.
 
Cooter said:
This is the point on POA when it becomes an attack on religion, which is ok with the mods. But when I say that science itself has become a religion, it becomes religious or political and I get a warning and the thread is locked.
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One of the things that distinguishes science from not-science is whether it makes predictions that can be tested.
 
Palmpilot said:
One of the things that distinguishes science from not-science is whether it makes predictions that can be tested.
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Wow, then the Bible is more scientific than I knew. Dozens if not hundreds of falsifiable prophetic and historical claims are made in it.
 
Cooter said:
When the experts stray beyond their area of expertise and join political or popular trends, people lose confidence and become skeptical. Most people don’t see science beyond what’s presented on television or news, so the influence of those seeking attention in the media disproportionately shapes opinions.
If the people truly believed all the scare mongering presented them, they’d become skitzo. I honestly don’t think flat-earthers really believe it. I think it’s a parody of an increasing skepticism of knowledge and science by regular folks.
Click to expand...
The critics of science stray beyond their areas of expertise on a regular basis!
 
Cooter said:
This is the point on POA when it becomes an attack on religion, which is ok with the mods. But when I say that science itself has become a religion, it becomes religious or political and I get a warning and the thread is locked.
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Science isn't a religion at all. Those who fail to understand science tend to treat it like one.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
Science isn't a religion at all. Those who fail to understand science tend to treat it like one.
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Or, for those who put too much faith in it, it becomes one.
 
Cooter said:
Wow, then the Bible is more scientific than I knew. Dozens if not hundreds of falsifiable prophetic and historical claims are made in it.
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In order for something to be falsifiable, it must be possible to describe what it would take to prove it false. A central issue in religion is belief in a god or gods. Is that belief falsifiable? If so, what would it take to prove that God doesn't exist?

I'm not taking a position on whether God exists; I'm just questioning whether religion is science.
 
Palmpilot said:
In order for something to be falsifiable, it must be possible to describe what it would take to prove it false. A central issue in religion is belief in a god or gods. Is that belief falsifiable? If so, what would it take to prove that God doesn't exist?

I'm not taking a position on whether God exists; I'm just questioning whether religion is science.
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I simply pointed out that the Bible makes falsifiable claims. I don’t claim that all it contains is falsifiable or that knowledge of God is falsifiable.
But since you brought it up ;), I think the existence of a god is knowable because of the nature of existence.
I can explain, but I’m starting to sense that the sharks have smelled blood in the water. It might be time to dry off on the beach until they’ve moved on. Or, as always my PMs are open.
 
Palmpilot said:
I have faith in the scientific method for the purposes of understanding that which can be reproducibly observed.
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That is appropriate but also very limiting if it forms the whole of what you consider “knowable”.
 
Thread has been locked. Religious discussions are not permitted.
 
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