First XC is Tomorrow... Any Advice

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LeeDeep

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LeeDeep
Getting excited! First cross country flight is tomorrow morning. Headed up to Alabama for a few stops in Andalusia (79J) then Dothan (KDHN), and then down to Panama City (KECP) and back to Destin (KDTS). :D If flying it is half as fun as planning it, this is going to be AWESOME! I'm a numbers nerd so this is fun to me, and not sure how i'm going to concentrate on work after all that excitement!

So that being said, I expect to be completely overwhelmed by everything going on, timing checkpoints, keeping up with the radio hand-offs, never mind the fact that this is also going to be my first towered airport landing at DHN. So what advice and/or tips do you guys/gals have for someone to keep it all straight. I've got my knee board ready with the sectional folded perfectly to showcase leg one, and everything I can calculate now, save for fuel, ETE/ETAs, heading calculations, etc until I get a more accurate forecast.
 
Relax. If your instructor is anything like mine was, you will be overwhelmed. He let me get behind and all I had to do was ask him for some assistance flying. I ended up filling out the nav log and he flew quite a bit. It was eye opening.
 
Always be looking ahead to the next step, preferably the next two steps. If you're sitting there doing nothing then you're probably doing it wrong. This way you'll likely never get behind the airplane and will be able to handle interruptions or problems much better.
 
Make sure the will is properly executed and filed. Everyone knows those "little planes" are dangerous.

Remember that VFR navigation requires looking out the window, not writing numbers on a log.

Don't bump into anything - stay in the middle of the sky and not near the edges
 
Plan your bathroom breaks....seriously, bring some gum to chew, use facilities before you takeoff tomorrow, plan it well tonight. Go over airport information, your route and checkpoints. Go over weight and balance info. Prepare a nav log, with all necessary frequencies. Get an outlook forecast tonight. Think ahead. Have fun. If you use foreflight, make sure you also have paper charts. In plane, dial in as many frequencies as necessary.
 
Thanks for the advice thus far. Stay ahead of the game, and bathroom breaks. I like it. I have a rough diagram of each destination airport on it's respective leg's nav log, with all frequencies, including the expected approach frequencies. No such luck with Foreflight. My instructor wants me do it the old fashioned way (which I'm OK with).

Does it make much sense to make a dry run with Flight Sim? I don't have 3 hours really to throw out the window per se, but if it would help I might try to get a leg or two in.
 
maybe I missed it, but first SOLO xc?
 
Pick checkpoints that are about 10 minutes (15-20 nautical miles) apart. Too close and you're too busy doing math, too far apart and you stand a chance of flying the checkpoints instead of flying the plane. And pick PROMINENT and UNIQUE landmarks.
 
eman1200 said:
maybe I missed it, but first SOLO xc?
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Nope, this one is dual, so I def have my instructor to lean on, only if needed. I'd just like to not need to.

Pick checkpoints that are about 10 minutes (15-20 nautical miles) apart.
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Good call on the distance between checkpoints. Hadn't thought of that, but, duh!
 
EdFred said:
pick PROMINENT and UNIQUE landmarks.
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This...



1. Lakes can be seen from miles away
2. Rivers
3. Cities
4. Major Highways
5. Power lines are good. You can't really see the lines but you can see where they cut through the vegetation to make room for them.

I wouldn't recommend using airports. I can never see the ones I am flying to let alone using them as checkpoints.

Another note about the lakes even if you don't fly directly over them, they are visible from such great distances that it is worth marking when you might be parallel with one and then confirm what's under matches the sectional.
 
My first dual xc is tomorrow, too. Weather has been crap as usual, but it looks like we may get a nice break tomorrow just in time. Airport is just 105 nm but it is to the airport in the town I grew up in. My parents are going to try to meet us there. This is going to be a common flight for me in the future so it should be fun. The route is pretty much through the boonies of sc. A few points along the way there are minimal landmarks but luckily it is pretty much the same route I've driven a hundred times. I laughed because at one area on the sectional there is so little around that one of the landmarks is listed simply as "buildings". Good luck tomorrow
 
LeeDeep said:
Nope, this one is dual, so I def have my instructor to lean on, only if needed. I'd just like to not need to....
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ok, so my response is different for 1st dual than 1st solo:

relax, have fun, do the best you can, have fun. this is, of course, after you've done your thorough pre-flight preparation/planning.

oh, and learn, learn, learn.

save the 'worrying' for your 1st solo xc lol (when you post about your 1st solo xc I'll try to talk you out of worrying then :) )

I totally agree with the lake and powerline checkpoints. 'reference to' a lake, and not necessarily right over it, is helpful, and I personally like using powerlines as a cross reference, typically with another checkpoint...."there's the small town of BlahBlahville with a highway running thru it north/south and a powerline just south of the town running east/west" kind of thing.

oh, here's something I'd recommend....use your instructor to hold stuff, for two reasons.....1) trying to keep and organize everything in your lap can be a lil stressful (it was for me). when you eventually have passengers, you can/will use them for help, so why not use your instructor? 2) when you go on your solo xc, I would recommend keeping some things on the empty right seat, so why do it one way on dual and a diff way on solo? get used to it now.

best of luck and when it's done you'll be smiling about how awesome it was!
 
Have fun, XC flights are fun. If you have time, grab lunch along the way and debrief that segment of flight. XC flights are also a great way to learn the customs of visiting other airports, so be sure to land and park, rather than just logging a touch n go.

By the way, pick up the tab for lunch. CFIs always appreciate a free lunch.
 
EdFred said:
Pick checkpoints that are about 10 minutes (15-20 nautical miles) apart. Too close and you're too busy doing math, too far apart and you stand a chance of flying the checkpoints instead of flying the plane. And pick PROMINENT and UNIQUE landmarks.
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SixPapaCharlie said:
This...



1. Lakes can be seen from miles away
2. Rivers
3. Cities
4. Major Highways
5. Power lines are good. You can't really see the lines but you can see where they cut through the vegetation to make room for them.

I wouldn't recommend using airports. I can never see the ones I am flying to let alone using them as checkpoints.

Another note about the lakes even if you don't fly directly over them, they are visible from such great distances that it is worth marking when you might be parallel with one and then confirm what's under matches the sectional.
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I'll repeat about prominent landmarks.

Check Google Earth and find something that is easily picked out of the background clutter. Make notations on your sectional describing the landmark such as, "look for football stadium next to 4-lane interstate and diagonally crossing road" It's okay to write on the sectional. Or use the small post-its if you want.

---------------

Do you have 2 Nav radios with 2 CDI's in your aircraft? This tip is a bit more work in prep and execution, but still works.

During my XC's we followed both a VOR radial on one part of the trip and a major highway on another. On my sectional, I marked my physical landmarks with intersecting radials from the VORs. I made notations on my drawn lines as to the frequency of the VOR and the XXX° of the radial, and noted TO or FROM.

While flying, I would set up the two radios and the CDI's for my next checkpoint. As I approached my checkpoint, the needles would start moving toward center. And when both were centered, I could verify both visually and with the VOR's that I was over my checkpoint.
 
If your not busy ,your getting behind the airplane. The cross country should also be fun,introducing you to other airports your not familiar with. Good luck and enjoy.
 
One word of caution about lakes. This time of the year, depending on where you are flying, they could be frozen and covered in snow. They look like fields, so be ready.

I picked towers a lot, and that bit me. Most of them didn't make very good checkpoints.
 
You'll make some mistakes. **** happens on cross-countries. Much of the learning is dealing with that. And you're ready or your instructor wouldn't be doing this yet.

I find airports work OK if I don't expect to see them 20 miles out. 'Cause you won't unless you happen to be lined up with the runway. Even that's questionable in the South (us westerners sometimes get visibility several times that).

Lakes work, BIG (or isolated) highways work, isolated towns work, airports sometimes work, major transmission lines work if there aren't too many of them. Coastlines, shorelines, and canals work (but you'll need something else to localize yourself along them). Mountains or hills don't usually work. It's too hard to tell one from another. Water towers may or may not work -- if they all look the same, pick something else, especially if they don't have the town name painted on the side.

Part of the point is figuring out what works and what doesn't.

If you have a point-type checkpoint (i.e., not a road crossing), plan to pass to the right of it. I think every first-time student cross-country plans to go right over checkpoints. You can't see them then.

Johnann, I don't think frozen lakes are a significant risk in Florida.
 
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Johann said:
One word of caution about lakes. This time of the year, depending on where you are flying, they could be frozen and covered in snow. They look like fields, so be ready.

I picked towers a lot, and that bit me. Most of them didn't make very good checkpoints.
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That may not be an issue in Florida and south Alabama. ;)
 
Oh, and the XC flights where the point in my training where I fun realizing all the training so far meant something. Finally we were going somewhere.

Brad's idea about scheduling a lunch stop is an excellent idea. It adds to the fun that you spent $100+ to fly somewhere just to sample a $10.00 burger.
 
AggieMike88 said:
Oh, and the XC flights where the point in my training where I fun realizing all the training so far meant something. Finally we were going somewhere.

Brad's idea about scheduling a lunch stop is an excellent idea. It adds to the fun that you spent $100+ to fly somewhere just to sample a $10.00 burger.
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And don't forget the bathroom break.....I get a kick about these guys that say the plane can fly 6 hours with full fuel in its bladder....my bladder doesn;t last more than 2.75....:yikes:
 
asgcpa said:
And don't forget the bathroom break.....I get a kick about these guys that say the plane can fly 6 hours with full fuel in its bladder....my bladder doesn;t last more than 2.75....:yikes:
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There's a solution to that.

And you'll never drink lemon Snapple again.
 
Good Luck.

Have Fun.

Even with a GPS I still use Lakes as ref. Points.
 
Don't bother with a sim for the route except to get used to frequencies or just "fly" the route along google Earth to get an idea of the scenery.

However, it will definitely help you to hit a simulator and see how the airport layout is (double check that your simulator has an accurate model of the airport). Try landing at each runway and see how it looks. See how towers or buildings or hills look during the approach. Check google earth for the airport layout as well, these will often give hints or clues that the airport facility directory or other tools wont present as well.

One last thing, give a half minute thought to the case of blinding sun, haze, or other low viability situations for both your airports and your checkpoints. I didn't do this for a flight a little while back and ended up flying a pattern which had me headed into the sun and a region of high radio towers and stacks which caused me to loose my ability to see the towers. It was a non-event because I know roughly where they were but ended up not being comfortable and flew a tight pattern to compensate.
 
If your instructor isn't letting you use GPS, then dial in VOR and DME if you have them for backing up your pilotage.
 
Another tip: new pilots tend to wander quite a bit on heading on long cross countries.

Once you get up in the air, figure out your heading, taking into consideration winds aloft, and then pick a distant landmark off the nose and point to it. Control the aircraft pointing to this distant landmark.

As you continue along you may have to pick a new landmark, but the idea is to focus outside the cabin, rather than stare at the DG. As such you can even use something as simple as a distant cloud formation, a column of smoke from a chimney, a city, whatever. Just know that every few minutes you're going to recheck your heading, compare your compass with the DG, and correct for drift. That's a good time to reevaluate your distant landmark and choose a new one.

These landmarks don't need to be checkpoints--heck they don't have to even be charted. Their purpose is to aid you in pointing the airplane in the right direction.

Keep your eyes outside the cabin!
 
AggieMike88 said:
Oh, and the XC flights where the point in my training where I fun realizing all the training so far meant something.
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Yeah, remember that Scene in Karate Kid where Danielson gets angry about painting, sanding, and waxing everything and then Myagi comes at him fists a flying and Danielson is able to counter all his punches and kicks? He realizes he was being trained. That s what the XC is.


Yeah, here it is I think the payoff is around the 3 minute mark
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4dkuYro4t8
 
LeeDeep said:
Does it make much sense to make a dry run with Flight Sim? I don't have 3 hours really to throw out the window per se, but if it would help I might try to get a leg or two in.
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Just take off, fly the pattern ,& land at each on Sim. Also when going to a new airport I like to look it up on Fly Q and look at the google overhead view..
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Yeah, remember that Scene in Karate Kid where Danielson gets angry about painting, sanding, and waxing everything and then Myagi comes at him fists a flying and Danielson is able to counter all his punches and kicks? He realizes he was being trained. That s what the XC is.


Yeah, here it is I think the payoff is around the 3 minute mark
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4dkuYro4t8
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[chuckle] The honorific is "-san" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_honorifics

Actually an apt comparison. "Wax on, Wax off" etc becomes "Right Rudder", "Pitch for speed", etc.
 
Great advice here. I was so stoked to do my XC's I could barely stand it. :)

Even now with my PPL I always use bing maps to get a layout of and airport/area I'm not familiar with. I make notes on landmarks, etc... to look for to help find it. It's not as big of a deal with the GPS (which you won't use on your day XC's) but anything you can do to help with situational awareness pre-flight is good. If you have a HSI or a heading bug - USE IT! As someone mentioned, it's pretty common to wander quite a bit. Track a VOR if one is available - that's totally legit for a checkride...you just still have to have the visual checkpoints.

Write down airport runway and pattern configurations on your navlog. Very distracting to have the sectional out trying to figure out if it's right pattern and pattern altitude, etc... when you're 5 miles out and have a steadily increasing workload. Make sure you put in all the frequencies. As mentioned, pick good landmarks. Towers may seem like good landmarks but they aren't - except at night maybe. During the day even the big ones can be hard to spot. Lakes, towns, anything with a smoke stack, rivers, etc... are all good ones.

Big thing is to stay ahead of the airplane. When you switch your radio from ground to tower, tune in the approach frequency you'll use to get flight following so all you have to do is hit a button to make the call. Once you get to cruise and you've got an eye on a checkpoint then tune in ATIS for your destination on COM2. When you have a little time change COM1 to the CTAF or approach/tower for your destination. Remember to do your scans and checklists at climb, cruise and descent.

You'll have a bit more time than you think to look out the window and remember why you are going through all this torture. :) It's invigorating!
 
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Never do touch and goes on box vans or school busses, only tractor-trailers.
 
Not much new advice but you will feel like a pilot after your flight. It is a great experience and truly eye opening because it is what you will be doing more often than not once you get your PPL.

Try and stay ahead of the plane, especially with frequencies of upcoming airports that you are landing at. Truely you can enjoy the views but remember that flying the plane is what you need to do and any idle time in a plane can usually be taken up by monitoring the instruments, engine indicators, nav aids, etc.
 
Lee - report back how it went.
 
Good luck, Lee. When I was in your shoes, it was helpful for me to have a sketch of the destination airport with an arrow for the direction of my approach. With numbers on the RWY, you can see how you have to maneuver to follow the controller's instructions.
 
Make sure you have airport diagrams. Ask for a progressive taxi if you are unfamiliar with the airports.
 
Most important, if you do make a mistake, fix it, don't dwell on it. If you spend the rest of the flight thinking about the one mistake, it will ruin the enjoyment, and it will cause you to make other mistakes. Dismiss it until you are on the ground, but correct it while flying.
 
just have fun bring fore flight and throw your nav logs and knee pad in the back hahahahhaha
 
Had my frist XC today. Flew from KEDU to KRHV. KEDU is a non-towered airport and KRHV is just south-west of the SFO 30nm veil and I think it's the 2nd busiest GA airport in the US (see below). I flew under SFO Bravo airspace within the 30NM veil for a ways.

My instructor has never been to this airport either. He was concerned it would be too much for me. But, it turned out fine. I'm comfortable talking on the radio and keep good directional control of the bird. Did an SF bay tour before and had some experience there. Also, did a mini XC last week to two towered airports. I always ask for flight following anyways, so i'm used to it.

Landmarks: Water and bridges are your friends. Make sure you are looking at the correct lake and bridge. I flew along a few small lakes. I could see 2 lakes at a time and they made for great landmarks since you can see them for a long long ways out. Airports are slightly harder.

AFD is your friend. Read and understand the information about your airports. Also, print up any airport taxi ways ahead and it should be on your knee board. RHV is super busy and the runways are only 3000 feet. With 500 feet displaced thresholds on both ends of both runways, giving effective 2000 foot runway for touch and go. Be sure to look at your runways.

There's lot of frequency changing. For me:
Get EDU AWOS.
CTAF for EDU.
Open flight following.
Talk to travis approach north for flight following.
Freq hop to travis approach south.
Freq hop to norcal approach. Then 2 more norcal approaches.
Get ATIS for RHV
Talk to RHV tower on 31R (note, each runway has different freq for tower), but initial contact is the same for 31R. Look in the AF/D.

Later, another CFI said that RHV was the second busiest GA airport. They get 67,555 local operations a year AND 42,191 itinerant operations a year (just looked it up). Needless to say, it's a busy airport. Had another Cessna 172 landing parallel with me..and I was number 2 to land on first contact behind a Skylane. Was cleared to land just after passing mid field.

Did full stop, then request taxi back after crossing the threshold. This put me right onto the taxiway with no space between runway and taxiway. He had my taxi back to the runway. On the way, he cleared me for take off before I even reached halfway (CFI says "must have been slow to clear us that fast to get us out of there"). I didn't even report we were ready for takeoff and holding short of runways 31R. At the runway hold short, did after landing and then take off checklists...even though we were already cleared. We just took off after looking at final since we were already cleared. The point: don't let the ATC rush you. Fly the plane. Do the check lists. Make sure you are safe!

So, be prepared for everything. Study the airports along your path. My CFI had my engine "die" on the way home. On my flight planner, i wrote the runway lengths, freqs, patterns and pattern altitude, and preferred runways with calm wind on my flight planner. It can be condensed really easy. EG:

KXYZ 17-(35) 3000x70@R1136/136 c:119.03 a:123.250

The reads to me: 17-35, 35 is primary if no wind. Right TPA 1136, elevation of airport 136. ctaf and awos/atis info. CFI was surprised I found that information so fast and was already telling him the runway lengths and such while he was looking at his papers.

I know this info is in the Garmin 430, but I was banned from looking at or using the GPS. We also didn't use any VORs. Just pure pilotage with charts and land marks. And yes, I've done VOR a couple of times but he wanted me out the window a lot.

Overall, it was an amazing flight. I flew the entire time, and did all radio coms. Though, I did get a little behind the radio work during my engine out. Forgot to make initial descent radio call and on final radio call. But, i did my memorized checklist and then full checklist when permitted and field in sight.

Enjoy your XC. You'll have fun!
 
Oh. Forgot to add. Since he was concerned about my workload, he said that if needed he would handle all the communications while i did all the flying. Your CFI will probably do the same if he sees you stressing. :)

Enjoy the flight. Take some pictures! My CFI used my phone to take a pic of me and a pic of us in the plane! I took some pics looking out. It's like seeing California for the first time...even though I've lived here my entire life.

Like others have said, it's great to actually leave the traffic pattern and see why you are doing everything you have done so far. CFI laughed when i said "i'm going to do a normal landing". It's weird, landings seem so easy after short field/soft field. :)

Now...to study for the darn FAA written. Blarg.
 
I really don't believe RHV is the 2nd busiest GA airport. It's not that busy. Livermore is worse. Palo Alto gas almost twice the traffic and Van Nuys has more than four times as much, according to airnav.

Did you enjoy the view from 31R short final? Need anything at JC Penney?

It's a nice airport. Challenges are foothill turbulence and staying out of Class C while still talking to RHV tower.
 
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