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Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by SixPapaCharlie, Nov 8, 2020.
Whom is this directed at Ted?
Only that nothing productive can be drawn from either survey.
When you use foggles, try and do that at night. It is much more difficult to "cheat" then.
Get back on the horse Bryan - IFR flying makes you a better pilot.
Oh, one more thing, don't ever give up when flying IFR, never.
It can indeed be unnerving. I totally relate to that feeling of sudden speed lol. Especially as you approach a cloud or layer, and then you are inside. Hand flying makes it more tough on the checkride. Autopilot is a real life saver in real IMC, and honestly for me it is a must. At least you can trust the airplane is flying along while you are task saturated. Nothing wrong with trying again, or just being a VFR guy.
As a VFR pilot that inadvertently flew into clouds at night. I’m very glad that I had 20 hours of hood time with a instructor. One of the things going through my mind was that damn 178 seconds to live video I had watched.
I was at 5500’ and managed to do a 180 and descend to 2000’. I was north of Tampa and still pretty dark over the swamp. I headed to Ocala and was happy to be on the ground. I over controlled the plane and was talking to myself quite a bit. I should not have gotten in a hurry, but I was burning time.
I never got my IFR, and I’ve never flown at night since. To me, a retired guy that doesn’t have to be anywhere, it’s not worth the risk. Now I’m all for the training, you never know what’s going to happen, but flying in the clouds is different, knowing you can’t just pull off the hood and say your plane.
The part of that study that nobody seems to know about is how the three guys I know survived. They read the magazine article.
Which is misleading, because it's a misinterpretation of a study, and seems likely to promote panic.
I don’t even know how to respond to the original post. I’m on my second written trying to get the right instructor, an airplane that is not broken and everything else to come together, but flying in actual is not a road block for me. At least not yet. I did four hours of actual in my IFR cross country and thought it was great even though I was completely exhausted afterwards. Personally I believe that there should be a minimum amount of actual as a requirement for the rating. If you can’t fly in actual though, the rating is indeed obviously a waste of time.
Bryan this is what a lot of my IFR flights look like:
My family jokes about having to bring our sunglasses on a cloudy day. Because you need them above the cloud deck.
That solid overcast may look scary, but it's thin. These clouds didn't cover a huge area, and it was VFR under them. One of the airports near the western edge was report a 4,300' ceiling. Heck, shooting an approach into there wouldn't even count for IFR currency.
Here's the edge:
Just saw this thread. Looks like plenty of good advice. My guess is that your 800 hours of VFR flying actually are contributing to your problems because instrument flying is so “different” than what you are used to. I had the opposite experience.
My second flight as a student pilot was IFR in IMC. The instructor didn’t make it seem like anything special, just made it a normal part of flying. He made sure that we flew in IMC every few weeks or so (we had a marine layer all the time so it was pretty easy to do). By the time I got my private rating I felt comfortable shooting an ILS to minimums, which is something I had done several times with my instructor.
After I got my license, I HATED not being able to fly in clouds. I got my instrument rating as soon as I possibly could (a few months later).
A few years ago I took off on a beautiful VFR day for a flight down the coast and flew right into IMC from smoke with my family on board. Without my instrument experience, there’s a good change we would have died.
You’re clearly a serious pilot, and you can do this. Don’t worry about the rating or the check ride — you’re a smart guy and you’ll figure it out eventually. Just go up there and have fun and learn what you can. It’ll eventually become your new normal and it won’t seem so scary.
Sooner or later you’re going to end up in IMC so you might as well learn your way out of it.
If it makes you feel better, my son almost always flys solely by reference to instruments — mostly because he’s too short to see over the glareshield. Doesn’t bother him one bit.
This is how I grew up, too short to see out and serving as the autopilot enroute. I think it made a big difference for me in later years.
I prefer flying in actual way more than the damn foggles. I hate those things. The IR has saved so many flights for me that would have grounded or diverted a VFR only pilot, when the conditions were pretty benign (thin layers). Flying into the clouds is fun, especially with pax who have never flown into clouds in a small plane. They tend to lean back as if to brace for impact with the cloud.... Then, there is nothing like descending through the bottoms to find the runway right there in front of you. It really does make you a better pilot in many ways. Autopilot is extremely helpful. I definitely prefer going up and flying in benign IMC for currency than flying with foggles.
Push through. You will be glad you did and it may save you and your pax's lifes someday.
Actual IMC is not the same as foggles or the sim. The difference between foggles, the sim, and actual IMC is that only actual IMC is trying to kill you. Just remember that you have an instructor sitting next to you that will prevent any mistakes from becoming a real problem, and build experience. The feeling goes away. And if it doesn't well then IFR isn't for you, but you'll have learned a ton and become a safer VFR pilot along the way.
This thread reminded me of a flight when I took an instrument student into the clouds for his first time. He was a little freaked out and asked me, “Do you ever get comfortable with this?”. I responded, “If you didn’t, we wouldn’t be here right now”. . He went on to be a very good instrument pilot.
Thinking back to 1999 when I did my private, I loved every second of the training, had way more than the minimum hours, because I just wanted to fly more and more. Then wanting to get my night rating, loved that instantly from night one, and still love flying at night, something so peaceful about it. Then decided to do my multi IFR, the multi part was fun, and I took to it right away. Then there was the IFR part, hood time was easy, popping in and out of clouds was also easy, 30 seconds in a cloud was nothing. Then my instructor took me up on a windy, raining, miserable day, and within a minute of taking off we were in solid cloud, climbing and to do a left turn of about 110 degrees to get on course to our destination. Not bad, not bad...then there was about 25 minutes in solid cloud, she wouldn't let me climb on top, forced me to stay on instruments, I did okay, but was sure glad my instructor was sitting right there, like a security blanket I needed, calm voice, and she was never rattled, so I stayed calm. Arrived at our destination, and atc put me in a holding pattern, and I fell apart. Too much for my little brain to handle, i told her, "Patty the controls are yours". Once we were back properly in our hold pattern, she had me put my hands and feet back on the controls, and we did it together. For the next 4 flights we flew in solid IMC, a different airport every time, and she made me do holding patterns, eventually it became clear even to my tiny brain. I hope you will change your mind, and keep going up, practice until it becomes easy. If I can do it, anyone can. A patient instructor, lots of practice, eventually it will seem fairly easy. I understand what you mean by suddenly being overwhelmed, been there myself.
Bryan, any update? Did you knock it out, or decide to stay VFR?