First Solo Cross Country Story (LONG)

Squawk... Sorry that bothers me for some reason

Seems to trip up a lot of people.

Previous owner of my plane made up a laminated checklist card.
In case of emergency, one of the items is to "SWAK 7700."

I know, if I ever find myself in an emergency and of a mind to pull out the checklist, I'm gonna go down laughing. :blowingkisses:
 
At an uncontrolled airport, the active runway is the one YOU are using - it does not matter what the ASOS says, or the guy in the Cub is doing over in the grass...
In my case I almost always choose the crosswind runway because - I may have to do it for real someday...
Now, if the pattern is busy then I play nice and go along to get along - I'm not a complete Neanderthal (just mostly)

So what if center says they lost your squawk - 99 times out of a hundred the problem is on their end, not yours - you know where you are... Remember, their job description for your VFR flight is, ummm, well, errr , not much! Their job is mostly to keep the god like IFR flight plan pilots from hitting each other...
They will look out for you lowly VFR maggots, if they have time, if they don't need coffee at that moment, and if they got a little last night... Otherwise, you are pretty much on your own - which is the definition of V. F. R.

So what if your radio is jacked out of shape and you can't talk to someone sitting at a console 300 miles from where you are (land line phone tie from local radio to him)... He can't fly the daggone airplane, in fact probably can't fly, period... So do what you did - exercise PIC judgement, stay clear of controlled airspace, and go find someplace interesting for coffee and to have someone show you which button to push for next time... Being a comely female really gives you an edge up on getting help at the airport - drooling, panting male help (we are simple creatures) - but help non the less...

Anyway, keep posting because it is going back in time - yup, I pulled that one too (and survived, as will you)

cheers

denny-o
 
- I started to learn what made for "good" and "bad" / hard to see way points on a map.
The best way to figure out what are good checkpoints is to fly the route and circle (on the map) the things you see out the window.

And I'm only half kidding.

Because often you end up not going the way you planned to go (weather or whatever) and you have to make it up as you go along.
 
The best way to figure out what are good checkpoints is to fly the route and circle (on the map) the things you see out the window.

And I'm only half kidding.

Because often you end up not going the way you planned to go (weather or whatever) and you have to make it up as you go along.

Pre-fly the route in Google Earth and you'll get a good idea of what things will look like and what the airport will look like when you get there.
 
Yeah, that's what I thought too. I'm telling my instructor where I'm going on mine, not the other way around.
..and he may or may not agree.. there is a middle ground :)

I tell my students that we're in this together. Safe effective training can require compromise on either side. It's a partnership. If they get an attitude where they're going to be "telling" me everything then I'll gladly get rid of a student just as easily as they can get rid of me.
 
..and he may or may not agree.. there is a middle ground :)

I tell my students that we're in this together. Safe effective training can require compromise on either side. It's a partnership. If they get an attitude where they're going to be "telling" me everything then I'll gladly get rid of a student just as easily as they can get rid of me.
:yeahthat:
 
Just have to remember that flying is supposed to be fun (or at least it is for me).
 
Yeah, that's what I thought too. I'm telling my instructor where I'm going on mine, not the other way around.


I think if you read the FAR's pertaining to this, you'll find that they are supposed to fly with you on a XC before you make the trip solo. That does not apply to the long XC. I think it's somewhere around 61.87 or so.

Doc
 
I think if you read the FAR's pertaining to this, you'll find that they are supposed to fly with you on a XC before you make the trip solo. That does not apply to the long XC. I think it's somewhere around 61.87 or so.

Doc

They are supposed to give cross country training, but I'm not sure that means pre-flying the same trip solo. It's 61.93 if I remember correctly...

http://rgl.faa.gov/regulatory_and_g...73fc6d62acb68bb4862576c400578bd7!OpenDocument

Whole bunch of stuff there, I'm just skimming, and maybe it's how a clause is interpreted, but I see where there must be training, not where they must do a ride-along on to the same airport before you go there alone.
 
61.93, b, 2, i

I also skimmed it quickly, and PLEASE don't think that I'm trying to be argumentative. I just try to learn from these discussions and I EASILY could be wrong.

BTW, thanks for fetching the FAR's in question.

EDIT! Hold the phone, the section indicated above is for "repeated" cross country flights. It doesn't seem to make much sense, but I will read it thoroughly tonight. From what I quickly perused, one could fly to all sorts of airports ONLY ONCE without the instructor having gone there with them Dual, but if they go there MORE than once the instructor must have accompanied them.

You would think that if they have been there once, even on their own, they would have an easier time finding their way back. There must be more to it. I will study it further.

I am interested in learning about all this because hopefully I will be flying some cross countries myself in a few weeks.

Doc
 
Last edited:
61.93, b, 2, i

I also skimmed it quickly, and PLEASE don't think that I'm trying to be argumentative. I just try to learn from these discussions and I EASILY could be wrong.

BTW, thanks for fetching the FAR's in question.

EDIT! Hold the phone, the section indicated above is for "repeated" cross country flights. It doesn't seem to make much sense, but I will read it thoroughly tonight. From what I quickly perused, one could fly to all sorts of airports ONLY ONCE without the instructor having gone there with them Dual, but if they go there MORE than once the instructor must have accompanied them.

You would think that if they have been there once, even on their own, they would have an easier time finding their way back. There must be more to it. I will study it further.

I am interested in learning about all this because hopefully I will be flying some cross countries myself in a few weeks.

Doc

Note that b(2)i is for repeated cross countries to fly solo back and forth between specific airports (for example, if the student owns a plane and bases it 60 miles away from the airport where the instructor is based, and the student wants to fly two and from his lessons... as just one example).

Section 61.93, d, 1-5 list the specific requirements for an instructor to let you go on a particular cross country trip, and pre-flying the exact route with you is not one of them.

P.S.- I should state that I am NOT a CFI, so take my interpretation of this with a grain of salt. You get what you pay for and all that yada yada yada.
 
Last edited:
You would think that if they have been there once, even on their own, they would have an easier time finding their way back. There must be more to it. I will study it further.
There comes a point in flight training where a good instructor won't want things to be the "easiest". Instead they'll want them to be the most realistic. They'd rather see what happens when they send the student to a new airport by themselves when they still have some rope and they're not carrying other lives.

If you don't let them fly somewhere new as a student, you'll have a newly certificated pilot that has never been to an airport by themselves loading up their family to do it for the first time. Bad deal.
 
..and he may or may not agree.. there is a middle ground :)

I tell my students that we're in this together. Safe effective training can require compromise on either side. It's a partnership. If they get an attitude where they're going to be "telling" me everything then I'll gladly get rid of a student just as easily as they can get rid of me.

You sound like my flight instructor - sometimes he says "who is the flight instructor here, Kimberly? You or me?"

It is all in good fun, though. He just wants to remind me that he knows what he is doing and that eventually we will "get to everything" and there is a reason he is doing what he is doing the way he is doing it.... if that makes sense. Now that I am "towards the end" of my flight training and everything is starting to come together, I can't believe he put up with my stupid-ness in the beginning. I was annoying.
 
My first XC was to an airport that I had been to before. The two of us did a night XC to an airport about 70nm away. We taxied to the parking, and I got the lesson, "Look around, and remember what you see. When you come here on your first solo XC, I want you to taxi here, go through the ckecklist, run up, ..." It was a pretty good familiarization of the airport itself. Being at night, the whole familiarization of the route was a non-issue. But the layout of the taxiway, ramp, windsock, and a few other things did make the first XC a little less stressful once I was on the ground.

After that flight, though, when I did XC's my CFI specically sent me to airports that I had never been to.
 
There comes a point in flight training where a good instructor won't want things to be the "easiest". Instead they'll want them to be the most realistic. They'd rather see what happens when they send the student to a new airport by themselves when they still have some rope and they're not carrying other lives.

If you don't let them fly somewhere new as a student, you'll have a newly certificated pilot that has never been to an airport by themselves loading up their family to do it for the first time. Bad deal.

Agreed. He sent me to a place, over 100 miles away, that I'd never been to, and that had several parts with almost no landmarks for reference. So "not easy" that is for sure. But I made it! (And finally, sort of, understood and relied on VOR in addition to pilotage, timing, ded reckoning, etc - we don't use GPS).
 
There comes a point in flight training where a good instructor won't want things to be the "easiest". Instead they'll want them to be the most realistic. They'd rather see what happens when they send the student to a new airport by themselves when they still have some rope and they're not carrying other lives.

If you don't let them fly somewhere new as a student, you'll have a newly certificated pilot that has never been to an airport by themselves loading up their family to do it for the first time. Bad deal.

I can certainly agree with this. They have to figure it out. I went to two or three new airports during my cross countries and thoroughly enjoyed the challenge. Nothing like flying along with the sectional on your lap checking for landmarks or using a couple of VOR's to triangulate from.
 
I'm always surprised when I hear that instructors pre-fly the same trip with their students. I never did it that way nor did I teach it that way. The X-C's were supposed to be a new adventure.

Sadly, I think the L-word is creeping into flight instruction.

I went to different places on my XC's. Dual, went to MWC, then PVB; after some solo XC's we went to GRB at night. Solo, went to RFD, OVS, OSH+ETB for the long one, and then went to OSH once for fun (requirements were met, I met a friend of mine up there).

..and he may or may not agree.. there is a middle ground :)

I tell my students that we're in this together. Safe effective training can require compromise on either side. It's a partnership. If they get an attitude where they're going to be "telling" me everything then I'll gladly get rid of a student just as easily as they can get rid of me.

Depends on the student, too. After I'd been flying with my primary CFI for 10 hours or so, I'd show up for a lesson and he'd ask, "So, what are we doing today?" He really let me take charge of the process, which was nice. But, I'd been obsessing about flying and flight training for about a year and a half before I had the money to actually do it so I had a good idea of what needed to be done.


Kimberly, great write-up! Sounds like the flight had exactly the intended effect: It threw some problems at you to solve, and you solved them and learned a few things along the way. That's what it's all about.

As I think you know by now, the transponder thing was simply a lack of radar coverage at your altitude... FWIW, when I flew through that area about 3 years ago the coverage was good at 7,500 feet but I'm guessing you didn't have any reason to be that high on a relatively short trip and were lower.

I'm curious, what model of radio were you having problems with, and do you know why it would only tune the nav side? That's a problem I haven't encountered yet.

Have fun - It keeps getting better! :yes:
 
Sadly, I think the L-word is creeping into flight instruction.

I went to different places on my XC's. Dual, went to MWC, then PVB; after some solo XC's we went to GRB at night. Solo, went to RFD, OVS, OSH+ETB for the long one, and then went to OSH once for fun (requirements were met, I met a friend of mine up there).



Depends on the student, too. After I'd been flying with my primary CFI for 10 hours or so, I'd show up for a lesson and he'd ask, "So, what are we doing today?" He really let me take charge of the process, which was nice. But, I'd been obsessing about flying and flight training for about a year and a half before I had the money to actually do it so I had a good idea of what needed to be done.


Kimberly, great write-up! Sounds like the flight had exactly the intended effect: It threw some problems at you to solve, and you solved them and learned a few things along the way. That's what it's all about.

As I think you know by now, the transponder thing was simply a lack of radar coverage at your altitude... FWIW, when I flew through that area about 3 years ago the coverage was good at 7,500 feet but I'm guessing you didn't have any reason to be that high on a relatively short trip and were lower.

I'm curious, what model of radio were you having problems with, and do you know why it would only tune the nav side? That's a problem I haven't encountered yet.

Have fun - It keeps getting better! :yes:


LOL yes, because I didn't turn it back to Com!

It doesn't matter what model of radio if the user (me) is not pushing the right buttons!
 
Sadly, I think the L-word is creeping into flight instruction.
You are probably right since I learned and taught a long time ago. FWIW, I never questioned what my CFI wanted me to do. If he wanted me to go to all new airports, that's what I did.
 
Sadly, I think the L-word is creeping into flight instruction.
Lawyers? Laziness? :dunno:

My first primary CFI soloed me, then we talked about where I could go on my solo XCs. He said that he would do a dual XC with me, then I would redo it solo. Not just my first solo XC either, but all of them. I asked him why, since I had at that point over 100 logged hours and he knew damn well that I was a competent navigator by pilotage or VORs. It turned out he had been burned badly by a student who busted Bravo airspace and nearly cost him his certificate, and since then, he had a policy that he would never send a student on a solo XC that he hadn't done already dual.

So at least in his case, yep, legal considerations were paramount.

I switched schools at that point, and my next instructor let me pretty much take charge of my solo XC plans after he was satisfied that I knew what I was doing. My "real, for credit" solo XCs (basically, my first three) were all to airports that I had never been to before and were challenging in many other ways too -- and they were the most fun I'd had in many years. Even though I think the world of my first instructor and owe all of my basic airmanship training to him, I don't regret making the switch for a minute. Re-doing dual XCs would have been a complete waste of my time and money. What I learned from the solo XCs I actually did, and from the great adventure that was the rest of my primary training was priceless and I'm so very thankful that my second CFI gave me the chance to do it that way.
 
Lawyers? Laziness? :dunno:

My first primary CFI soloed me, then we talked about where I could go on my solo XCs. He said that he would do a dual XC with me, then I would redo it solo. Not just my first solo XC either, but all of them. I asked him why, since I had at that point over 100 logged hours and he knew damn well that I was a competent navigator by pilotage or VORs. It turned out he had been burned badly by a student who busted Bravo airspace and nearly cost him his certificate, and since then, he had a policy that he would never send a student on a solo XC that he hadn't done already dual.

So at least in his case, yep, legal considerations were paramount.

I switched schools at that point, and my next instructor let me pretty much take charge of my solo XC plans after he was satisfied that I knew what I was doing. My "real, for credit" solo XCs (basically, my first three) were all to airports that I had never been to before and were challenging in many other ways too -- and they were the most fun I'd had in many years. Even though I think the world of my first instructor and owe all of my basic airmanship training to him, I don't regret making the switch for a minute. Re-doing dual XCs would have been a complete waste of my time and money. What I learned from the solo XCs I actually did, and from the great adventure that was the rest of my primary training was priceless and I'm so very thankful that my second CFI gave me the chance to do it that way.


I do remember thinking, on my "long" solo cross country (which I have not written about here):

if only because the routes were ones I hadn't been on before, that it was more of an "adventure" or "mine" as in I was the one who got me there, not just copying some other flight we did. And the fact that it was 105 miles instead of the minimum 50 miles was a really nice touch. Seeing those double digits and knowing it would take over an hour of flying to get there was the "biggest" thing I had done so far. Exciting!
 
LOL yes, because I didn't turn it back to Com!

Do you know what kind of radio it is? Most of them have separate knobs for the Nav and Com... Or is it one of these?

attachment.php


That'd be a Garmin SL30, but those are fairly rare, especially in the rental fleet, but they're the only one I know of where the nav and com share a tuning knob. If there's others... Well, I'm curious! If you don't know what it is, can you take a look at the faceplate next time you fly and see if there's a brand and/or model number, or take a picture?

(Yes, I'm a geek.
attachment.php
)
 

Attachments

  • radio.1.gif
    radio.1.gif
    30.2 KB · Views: 50
  • anim_propeller.gif
    anim_propeller.gif
    13.5 KB · Views: 140
Do you know what kind of radio it is? Most of them have separate knobs for the Nav and Com... Or is it one of these?

attachment.php


That'd be a Garmin SL30, but those are fairly rare, especially in the rental fleet, but they're the only one I know of where the nav and com share a tuning knob. If there's others... Well, I'm curious! If you don't know what it is, can you take a look at the faceplate next time you fly and see if there's a brand and/or model number, or take a picture?

(Yes, I'm a geek.
attachment.php
)


Um, no . . . it doesn't look anything like the one you posted pictures of.

Then again, that is because yours looks like it was built WITHIN THE LAST CENTURY.

I am telling you . . . my plane is old - ! There is a button that switches from the knobs tuning the COM frequencies to tuning the NAV ones and if you don't put it back you cannot do anything with the COMs.

Here is a photo:

5861606203_82fb4af75c.jpg



look at the worn out marks on the radio! The button in question is the tiny little white dot (there are three of them one above the other) on radio number one. Radio number two and transponder were OK.
 
Um, no . . . it doesn't look anything like the one you posted pictures of.

Then again, that is because yours looks like it was built WITHIN THE LAST CENTURY.

I am telling you . . . my plane is old - ! There is a button that switches from the knobs tuning the COM frequencies to tuning the NAV ones and if you don't put it back you cannot do anything with the COMs.

Here is a photo:

5861606203_82fb4af75c.jpg



look at the worn out marks on the radio! The button in question is the tiny little white dot (there are three of them one above the other) on radio number one. Radio number two and transponder were OK.

Aha... I thought it had a Michel-like look to it, and sure enough, it looks like it's the Michel MX300 (a slide-in replacement for the old Cessna 300-series radios):

attachment.php


I've used the very similar MX170, once... In Mike's plane on a trip from Chicago to Hartford, CT. I had forgotten that they had the nav/com button and a single set of knobs, but that's probably just because I was so annoyed at the radio otherwise. Not because it's a bad radio - It's not - But I'm used to the orientation being opposite on all the radios I use, with the flip-flop going up and down instead of left and right. (G430W and MAC 1700.)
 

Attachments

  • mx300.jpg
    mx300.jpg
    24.3 KB · Views: 50
Note that b(2)i is for repeated cross countries to fly solo back and forth between specific airports (for example, if the student owns a plane and bases it 60 miles away from the airport where the instructor is based, and the student wants to fly two and from his lessons... as just one example).

Section 61.93, d, 1-5 list the specific requirements for an instructor to let you go on a particular cross country trip, and pre-flying the exact route with you is not one of them.

P.S.- I should state that I am NOT a CFI, so take my interpretation of this with a grain of salt. You get what you pay for and all that yada yada yada.
IIRC, b(2)i applies when the CFI signs the student off for the ability to make that repeated trip without a separate signoff for each trip and that's where the "repeated" part comes in. The signoff itself is for multiple trips.
 
I think I got that signoff. It was for solos to STS (towered, 18 nm from me). Not sure if this is what you meant.
 
Back
Top