First reported crash en route to Oshkosh

I think most of the time people survive a ditching, so this is somewhat unusual...
 
:(

Wow, they did not make it very far. Taking off from Racine, the only reason for them to be 3 miles offshore from Cudahy is that they were flying around the Milwaukee class C in the climb.

The odd thing is that the bodies were found *in* the plane but there wasn't much damage to the plane. Either they somehow got knocked out in the ditching (flipped upside down with loose seat belts and knocked their heads on the roof maybe?) or the door got jammed and they couldn't get out when it sank.

Jeez, I was within sight of KRAC right about that time today too.
 
Seeing the comment about "they weren't in contact with ATC, and might have been flying VFR" makes me want to continue to utilize flight following.
 
gkaiser said:
Unfortunately I think it happens every year....

single engine piper, en route to Oshkosh from Racine,WI..crashed a few miles offshore into Lake Michigan...possibly 4 people on board..2 bodies recovered so far...


http://www.wisn.com/news/south-east...gan/-/10148890/21206012/-/xxgntm/-/index.html
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Very sad. So again, why did they think there might be 2 more unaccounted for? According to the story, it sounds like they're assuming based on the number of seats. Then again, the story also said that VFR traffic doesn't talk to ATC, so who knows how accurate that is...
 
azure said:
Very sad. So again, why did they think there might be 2 more unaccounted for? According to the story, it sounds like they're assuming based on the number of seats. Then again, the story also said that VFR traffic doesn't talk to ATC, so who knows how accurate that is...
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Agreed, just because it has 4 seats is unlikely it had 4 passengers unless they were kids....unless there was a flight plan filed that specifically said 4 people i dont understand how their going on that logic...

This just kind of stresses for me the importance of flight following so if something does happen atleast you're still in communication with SOMEONE so you can let them know more...
 
Weather did not appear to be a factor around 2:00 PM Sat. RIP.
 
gkaiser said:
Agreed, just because it has 4 seats is unlikely it had 4 passengers unless they were kids....unless there was a flight plan filed that specifically said 4 people i dont understand how their going on that logic...

This just kind of stresses for me the importance of flight following so if something does happen atleast you're still in communication with SOMEONE so you can let them know more...
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121.5 will have you communicating with EVERYBODY instantly.
 
He was an active instructor at Racine. If anybody had a chance of salvaging this, he would. Sad indeed.
 
Both still inside in 42' water makes me think they hit hard.
 
That's too bad. I know that area off the lake well. Only a few miles from my old apartment, and right near a friend's condo.
 
dans2992 said:
I read an article and the survival rate they quoted was something like 80%.
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AFaIK, that's the initial survival rate assuming a controlled entry to the water. Overall the rate is a bit lower due to drownings that occur after a "successful" ditching and cases where the airplane wasn't under control when it hit the water.
 
AdamZ said:
That or possibly and issue with CO? I wonder how they knew he went down, no communication and no mention of witnesses.
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I've had a handful of CO experiences in airplanes and I just can't imagine how you'd let it get that far without noticing
 
I thought one is taught, if one knows they are going down in water the first thing to do is open the door. In case the fuselage buckles when hitting the water.
I am sure everyone operating over water is taught this. Am I wrong? So I would expect to see an open door unless something went really wrong and they had no time to open the door.

My thoughts and prayers are with the families and friends of those involved. Lets all say a little prayer and hope we have no more of this for the rest of Oshkosh and everyone has a great time.

Jeff Wright..I hear really good things about you.
 
I'm sure your talking about smaller GA planes. Opening pressurized door to the stairway on a cabin class larger plane might be an issue. I'll have to read through my POH again. If one was to open the pressurized door on my plane, it falls outward. Certainly depressurized before touching down, but someone would have to go back to the rear of my plane to open that door which means they'd be out of their belted seat and have to get back. I'd be too busy to help.
I do have an emergency door over the wing. That's what I think we'd use to get out in water. Especially, if the sealed hull would allow us to float longer.

Best,

Dave
 
gismo said:
AFaIK, that's the initial survival rate assuming a controlled entry to the water. Overall the rate is a bit lower due to drownings that occur after a "successful" ditching and cases where the airplane wasn't under control when it hit the water.
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That is my understanding as well. I responded to four ditchings in my career. two were oily spots on the water with scattered debris, two were with floating airplanes. One instance the survivors were in a raft, the other they were still exiting the A/C as we had been dispatched from a routine patrol when they came up on guard. In the instances where we found only debris, the sea state was such that a successful ditching would require a hefty dose of luck.
 
Dave Siciliano said:
I'm sure your talking about smaller GA planes. Opening pressurized door to the stairway on a cabin class larger plane might be an issue. I'll have to read through my POH again. If one was to open the pressurized door on my plane, it falls outward. Certainly depressurized before touching down, but someone would have to go back to the rear of my plane to open that door which means they'd be out of their belted seat and have to get back. I'd be too busy to help.
I do have an emergency door over the wing. That's what I think we'd use to get out in water. Especially, if the sealed hull would allow us to float longer.

Best,

Dave
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The structure around your cabin door (or at least the emergency exit) is likely designed to allow the door to open even if the hull is significantly damaged. AFaIK there's no such requirement for a Cherokee.
 
I am sorry for I thought we where talking about something like a 172. Not sure why I thought this but I did. Never thought it was a pressurized cabin or airplane.
 
1600vw said:
I am sorry for I thought we where talking about something like a 172. Not sure why I thought this but I did. Never thought it was a pressurized cabin or airplane.
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Piper Cherokee, in this case. And the checklist for an off-field emergency landing in that and a 172 both include unlatching the door(s) so you can get out if the fuselage is bent.
 
1600vw said:
I am sorry for I thought we where talking about something like a 172. Not sure why I thought this but I did. Never thought it was a pressurized cabin or airplane.
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I don't think the accident airplane was pressurized. One report mentioned a Cherokee (six?) and the only pressurized piston single from Piper is the Malibu.
Dave S just posted that unlatching the door would likely be impractical in an airplane like his King Air.
 
azure said:
Very sad. So again, why did they think there might be 2 more unaccounted for? According to the story, it sounds like they're assuming based on the number of seats. Then again, the story also said that VFR traffic doesn't talk to ATC, so who knows how accurate that is...
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The bottom of the article in the comments says that they did a PAN PAN call saying there were 4 on board.
 
jesse said:
I've had a handful of CO experiences in airplanes and I just can't imagine how you'd let it get that far without noticing
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Easy, too cheap to have a sensitive, loud electric CO alarm, those color change buttons are next to useless. I like the portable alarm that stays in the top of my opened flight bag.
 
Sorry, I didn't mean this plane was pressurized; just pointing out all planes may not open the door before water landing. Just stimulating thoughts (g).

Best,

Dave
 
Dave Krall CFII said:
Easy, too cheap to have a sensitive, loud electric CO alarm, those color change buttons are next to useless. I like the portable alarm that stays in the top of my opened flight bag.
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Plenty east to detect the symptoms with nothing but your brain
 
jesse said:
Try moving up north where we actually use the heat
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As safety minded as you seem to be I would guess you do have a CO monitor. If not please buy one. I use two on my plane. My G1000 has one and I have a free standing one as well. CO poisoning can be quite insidious and many a person has died because of that. In the last few years, two couples who live in my dad's community died because they forgot to turn off their cars. They had these push button starts where you do not use a key. Some would think it was suicide, but everyone in the community who knows these people are 100% sure that's not the case.
 
jesse said:
Plenty east to detect the symptoms with nothing but your brain
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Under ideal conditions yes but, it can easily creep up on you at low levels, gradually and increasingly impairing routine scan and judgement performance until it is too late.

The stick-on buttons may only help accident investigators confirm their suspicions.
 
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