First class medical with Schizoid

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Possible Schizoid PD

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I currently have a first class medical and am working on my instrument. However, based on what I read in the DSM-V, it seems very likely that I have Schizoid Personality Disorder (NOT Schizotypal PD, Schizophrenia, Schizoaffective Disorder, etc.). It is essentially just a lack of interest in relationships or social interaction of any kind and blunted emotions (wasn't happy when I passed my checkride or soloed for the first time, wasn't nervous or scared when practicing stalls or when the DPE failed my engine, just bored). I'm considering seeking a professional diagnosis at some point just to make sure my assessment is correct, but I'm concerned that it may interfere with my ability to get a first class medical in the future. The only time anyone I've flown with commented on it was when my DPE said everything I said or did seemed very clinical. To be honest, it seems like a lack of emotional reactivity would be a good thing for a pilot, but you never know if the FAA will agree. Any thoughts on pros/cons of getting a diagnosis?

If it helps to further tailor the advice given, I have a perfect record driving and flying and with pretty much everything else too, and I'm generally a stickler for the rules as long as they don't seem completely arbitrary.
 
Note that the FAA is stuck on DSM-IV, not that it matters much. But I think we're being trolled here. It's not nice to make fun of the mentally ill.
 
flyingron said:
Note that the FAA is stuck on DSM-IV, not that it matters much. But I think we're being trolled here. It's not nice to make fun of the mentally ill.
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Unless the one making fun is mentally ill? But, yeah, troll.
 
Like the responses so far, I doubt the PoA crew and the PoA forum is the best spot for you to get the proper advice or guidance. Likely no place on the internet is.

You might try http://www.aeromedicaldoc.com/how-to-start.html which is Dr.Bruce Chien’s contact and question form.
 
flyingron said:
Note that the FAA is stuck on DSM-IV, not that it matters much. But I think we're being trolled here. It's not nice to make fun of the mentally ill.
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You have me curious... how did you come to the conclusion that I am a troll? I was expecting a wide variety of responses, but not that. Am I doing something troll-like?

If I have insulted the mentally ill, I apologize. What did I say that was insulting?
 
I’m not a psychiatrist but I don’t think personality disorders are quite the same thing as mental illness. I couldn’t say how the FAA handles them though.

To the OP: Why are you reading the DMS-V and attempting to diagnose yourself? You have a class I and you want to risk it by visiting a psychiatrist, just to see if your self diagnosis is correct? If you are unhappy and dysfunctional then that’s one thing. Go get help. But if you are fine with who you are, quit reading medical manuals. It leads to a lot of “med students’s disease.”

Having said that, I’m not an AME and AggieMike’s advice is good. I’d ask Bruce the question and take his answer to the bank.
 
A pilot that is bored during an emergency. Sounds like someone that should be flying.
 
Rushie said:
I’m not a psychiatrist but I don’t think personality disorders are quite the same thing as mental illness. I couldn’t say how the FAA handles them though.

To the OP: Why are you reading the DMS-V and attempting to diagnose yourself? You have a class I and you want to risk it by visiting a psychiatrist, just to see if your self diagnosis is correct? If you are unhappy and dysfunctional then that’s one thing. Go get help. But if you are fine with who you are, quit reading medical manuals. It leads to a lot of “med students’s disease.”

Having said that, I’m not an AME and AggieMike’s advice is good. I’d ask Bruce the question and take his answer to the bank.
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My primary concern is that I don't know how effective I would be as a CFI, given that as things currently stand, I wouldn't really give genuine affirmation to a student no matter how well they did, it would all be forced, and I might be miserable working as a CFI. The problem is that the experience I would gain as a CFI makes that career path attractive to me. The purpose of tentative self diagnosis is to get a better sense of WHY I am tempered in this manner, and giving the psychiatrist the most accurate picture possible would be helpful for determining what my options are to improve as a CFI or if it would be a good idea to consider something more like crop-dusting. The purpose of that diagnosis would also be to explain all of the symptoms with less risk of getting dangerous phrases like "persistent depression" involved.

Will definitely seek his advice.
 
TheAbyss said:
My primary concern is that I don't know how effective I would be as a CFI, given that as things currently stand, I wouldn't really give genuine affirmation to a student no matter how well they did, it would all be forced, and I might be miserable working as a CFI. The problem is that the experience I would gain as a CFI makes that career path attractive to me. The purpose of tentative self diagnosis is to get a better sense of WHY I am tempered in this manner, and giving the psychiatrist the most accurate picture possible would be helpful for determining what my options are to improve as a CFI or if it would be a good idea to consider something more like crop-dusting. The purpose of that diagnosis would also be to explain all of the symptoms with less risk of getting dangerous phrases like "persistent depression" involved.

Will definitely seek his advice.
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There are plenty of people who don't make good CFIs. That doesn't mean they're mentally ill. What would raise my eyebrows is that you came up with this idea, and looked in the DSM in order to self-diagnose...

Then posted here.
 
Everskyward said:
There are plenty of people who don't make good CFIs. That doesn't mean they're mentally ill. What would raise my eyebrows is that you came up with this idea, and looked in the DSM in order to self-diagnose...

Then posted here.
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Technically, I looked in the DSM to disprove the idea that it was an official mental illness only to realize it might be, but self-diagnosis is definitely still sketchy. I'll have to blame it on being 17.

Any thoughts on ways to get better information?
 
If you think being a CFI would make you miserable, don't be a CFI. There are plenty better ways to get flying experience.

Also, you're 17 years old; your personality hasn't fully developed yet. And stop reading the DSM.
 
TheAbyss said:
That one could work. It's not quite right, but it's close enough that it might fly and it isn't an official disorder. I don't like that increased risk of depression bit though, the FAA might not like that.
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None of this has to "work." Internet self-diagnoses aren't reportable on medxpress.
 
I served on a jury where mental health was an issue. My suspicions were confirmed that psychiatric diagnoses are a black art and not at all exact, even when done by psychologists and psychiatrists.
 
TheAbyss said:
… I'll have to blame it on being 17….
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Your brain and everything that goes along with it ain’t fully developed for a few more years. Who you are will change over the next decade. I suggest taking a step back from the books and focus on really understanding flying.

There’s nothing wrong with a clinical approach to flying but the hallmark of a great instructor is being able to explain what will/did happen and why and not about how a student will emotionally react to various experiences.
 
TCABM said:
Your brain and everything that goes along with it ain’t fully developed for a few more years.
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It would be interesting if @TheAbyss created a personal journal entry of this occurrence and online conversation, then returned in 4-5 years with a Paul Harvey "the rest of the story" update.

I agree with you. At age 17, there is still much growing up to do. And things will definitely change once high school is done and it launches himself into young adulthood.
 
TheAbyss said:
My primary concern is that I don't know how effective I would be as a CFI, given that as things currently stand, I wouldn't really give genuine affirmation to a student no matter how well they did, it would all be forced, and I might be miserable working as a CFI. The problem is that the experience I would gain as a CFI makes that career path attractive to me. The purpose of tentative self diagnosis is to get a better sense of WHY I am tempered in this manner, and giving the psychiatrist the most accurate picture possible would be helpful for determining what my options are to improve as a CFI or if it would be a good idea to consider something more like crop-dusting. The purpose of that diagnosis would also be to explain all of the symptoms with less risk of getting dangerous phrases like "persistent depression" involved.

Will definitely seek his advice.
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Do not consult a psychiatrist for the purpose of seeing if you will be a good CFI or should consider another career. Only consult a psychiatrist if you are suffering, are in distress, are a danger to yourself or others, or cannot function well. It’s all well and good to try to figure yourself out. But do not take an action that will threaten your medical certification based only on your concern that you will have problems as a CFI.

I’m not even going to tell you all the things I thought I was at age 17. You’re overthinking this a bit but it’s normal at your age to try to figure out exactly who you are. Just be careful and don’t ring any bells that can’t be unrung.
 
A stickler for the rules... that means you have a healthy dose of compulsiveness in you as well. Airlines are gonna love you...

insofar as instructing, whether or not you like it is not at all related to what you’re talking about. You’re gonna have to instruct to know. Plain and simple, an amateur personality diagnosis ain’t gonna predict an affinity for something. A professional diagnosis ain’t gonna be much better... whether or not a student likes an emotionless instructor, depends on THEIR personality, not yours. So again, cross that bridge when you come to it.

frankly, this level of due diligence IS indicative of potential to be a good pilot. A little odd, but hey, what ev.

So keep pressing. Try all sorts of flying and pursue the type that makes you most happy at the end of the day. Don’t over think that aspect.
 
This is great. If your not trained to read the book then you should close it!
 
AggieMike88 said:
It would be interesting if @TheAbyss created a personal journal entry of this occurrence and online conversation, then returned in 4-5 years with a Paul Harvey "the rest of the story" update.

I agree with you. At age 17, there is still much growing up to do. And things will definitely change once high school is done and it launches himself into young adulthood.
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I thought we knew everything knowable when we were 17. Infallible, immortal, incapable. Then we grew up.
benyflyguy said:
This is great. If your not trained to read the book then you should close it!
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Must get training about book to read book. Must read book to get training about book. Confucius? Conundrum! Confusion…
 
Rushie said:
To the OP: Why are you reading the DMS-V and attempting to diagnose yourself? You have a class I and you want to risk it by visiting a psychiatrist, just to see if your self diagnosis is correct? If you are unhappy and dysfunctional then that’s one thing. Go get help. But if you are fine with who you are, quit reading medical manuals. It leads to a lot of “med students’s disease.”
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Agreed. Even if you are a little Schizoid, all PDs are a spectrum. I’m sure a lot of pilots are a little narcissistic too. And probably OCPD. Don’t make trouble for yourself by going to psych for a diagnosis. If you give a carpenter a hammer, he’s going to find a nail to hit. You’re going to open a can of worms you might regret later. Enjoy your solitary, calm, apathetic lifestyle and rest assured knowing a lot of neurotic, anxious extroverts wish they could be you. Just the opinion of a lowly freshman AME.
 
Possible Schizoid PD said:
I currently have a first class medical and am working on my instrument. However, based on what I read in the DSM-V, it seems very likely that I have Schizoid Personality Disorder (NOT Schizotypal PD, Schizophrenia, Schizoaffective Disorder, etc.). It is essentially just a lack of interest in relationships or social interaction of any kind and blunted emotions (wasn't happy when I passed my checkride or soloed for the first time, wasn't nervous or scared when practicing stalls or when the DPE failed my engine, just bored). I'm considering seeking a professional diagnosis at some point just to make sure my assessment is correct, but I'm concerned that it may interfere with my ability to get a first class medical in the future. The only time anyone I've flown with commented on it was when my DPE said everything I said or did seemed very clinical. To be honest, it seems like a lack of emotional reactivity would be a good thing for a pilot, but you never know if the FAA will agree. Any thoughts on pros/cons of getting a diagnosis?

If it helps to further tailor the advice given, I have a perfect record driving and flying and with pretty much everything else too, and I'm generally a stickler for the rules as long as they don't seem completely arbitrary.
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Hi all, apologies for the necromancy, but "the rest of the story" was requested, so here it is.

Still no clue if schizoid pd is an accurate diagnosis or not, it hasn't really come up yet. I did anonymously email the AME that was recommended asking for advice, and in spite of omitting the more concerning details, he still said (paraphrasing) "uh...yeah... that's a problem, and you need to talk to someone about it, but if it's actually schizoid pd, you're going to be lucky to get a 3rd class medical." Of course I ignored his advice and refused to talk to anyone about it.
Fast forward to around now, and I finally caved and talked to a professional about vague complaints of 'depression' because I was getting concerned that another attempt might be imminent, and much less survivable this time (omitting a lot of information here and leaving it up to the reader to draw their own inferences for the sake of not explicitly saying anything that might get me in trouble). After getting batted around to a few different people, I got diagnosed with bipolar and prescribed some antipsychotics. I was hoping to avoid that diagnosis and hope that no one at the FAA would bat an eye at Seroquel being prescribed for something like 'mild depressed mood *wink wink*', but I got stuck with it anyway.
Good news, I'm currently studying to be a scientist (apologies, more vagueness to preserve anonymity) so I don't really need a medical except to fly for the love of it. Bad news, what would happen if I hypothetically got diagnosed with schizoid pd is a moot point because I'm currently permabanned from getting a medical unless the FARs get radically overhauled, which I'm quite peeved about. Might come up eventually, might not, doesn't matter anymore either way. Better than being dead, I suppose, but only just barely. Hopefully it's not all bad news and there will finally be some semblance of relief (been going on since I was ~8, attempted for the first time at 11).

As a side-note, if anyone has any petitions to get the medical FARs changed and needs a signature, let me know, otherwise I'll probably have to wait until the A-team needs a pilot in order to be PIC again.

Happy skies all, and if you need a renegade pilot, and you have a problem, and nobody else can help, and if you can find me, hit me up.
 
It sounds like you might be ineligible for a medical or basic med, but might be able to qualify for sport privileges.
 
Lindberg said:
It sounds like you might be ineligible for a medical or basic med, but might be able to qualify for sport privileges.
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That's good to know; I'll look into that. If so, that would work reasonably well for me since flying would only be recreational anyway.
 
TheAbyss said:
That's good to know; I'll look into that. If so, that would work reasonably well for me since flying would only be recreational anyway.
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You and your treating doctors should agree that you don't have any condition that makes you unable to safely operate an aircraft.
 
Lachlan said:
I thought we knew everything knowable when we were 17. Infallible, immortal, incapable. Then we grew up.


Must get training about book to read book. Must read book to get training about book. Confucius? Conundrum! Confusion…
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Dept of Redundancy Dept.

Or,

Recursion. (def: See Recursion)

As for checkride and solo. There was zero happiness at both because I had been strung along and milked by a number of CFIs. I passed both only due to stuborness and a healthy checkbook. This was before POA existed.
 
I always thought that reading the DSM (and other textbooks) was a sure cure for insomnia.
 
Well, ANY book without pictures. Just sayin’…
 
Lindberg said:
It sounds like you might be ineligible for a medical or basic med, but might be able to qualify for sport privileges.
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Yeah, he'd need a one-time SI for bipolar, and that ain't gonna happen. Sport might be technically legal, but if there's ever an incident the FAA would probably consider bipolar to be a known medical condition that prevents him from operating a plane safely. The best approach to flying for fun might be to always go with a CFI or a pilot who can be PIC.
 
Half Fast said:
Yeah, he'd need a one-time SI for bipolar, and that ain't gonna happen. Sport might be technically legal, but if there's ever an incident the FAA would probably consider bipolar to be a known medical condition that prevents him from operating a plane safely. The best approach to flying for fun might be to always go with a CFI or a pilot who can be PIC.
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Sport pilot privileges require that the most recent medical certificate application must have been successful, IIRC. I don't think he has said whether that is the case.
 
Palmpilot said:
Sport pilot privileges require that the most recent medical certificate application must have been successful, IIRC. I don't think he has said whether that is the case.
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True. In his first post he mentioned holding a 1st class, but he didn't say whether it has been revoked or whether a renewal was denied.
 
This is the thing that scares me. This whole “reform” movement going on regarding pilot mental health seems to be focused on the idea that anyone should be able to be a pilot, no matter their mental health state. And pardon the pun, but that’s just crazy. I wish the OP well and I truly empathize and hope you find the help that you need, but there are no circumstances under which I think this person should be flying airplanes.
 
No, it doesn’t. The perception it does may be part of the problem.

Simply asking for QUALIFIED evaluation IAW medical, not administrative, standards.

There is the perception that AMEs are somehow more qualified to determine the ability of a pilot, seeing how we’re so special and what we do is so specialized.

Ever see the “specialized training” your average family doc, or eye doc gets to be a AME, or more frightening, a HIMS AME? It’s a joke. At best it’s a correspondence course on the ADMINISTRATION of medicals and special issuances. And apparently it sucks which is why most are so poor at it.

This ain’t about qualifying people who shouldn’t fly, it’s about the faa doing their job. “We don’t have a right to fly blah blah blah…”. We DO have the right to EXPECT them to do their job.

There are people paying outrageous amounts of time and money, complying PRECISELY with PUBLISHED standards, only to have the faa say no, or just ignore them, with no reason given. There are people denied the ability to work for the same reason. There are people denied their RIGHTS as afforded by our constitution and bill of rights by this organization.

How many people are killed by errant pilots, remember there is NOTHING gonna catch ANYONE from flying ANY plane? I mean ANY.

How many people are killed by screwed up drivers, yet there’s ALL SORTS of measures to prevent that (like KEYS)? They do it LEGALLY. No attempt to stop that situation. Why don’t ALL CARS have built in breathalyzers? Why don’t cars prevent cell phone usage? Why don’t you get a medical to drive? Why don’t you test yearly? List goes on and on… and yet MANY THOUSANDS killed by simply incompetent drivers, yearly.
 
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I can empathize with you, having lost (well, having let expired and not seeking renewal) due to being diagnosed with the same. Grounding myself was the hardest thing I had to do, having gotten my instructor tickets the year before. Years later, took up motor gliders until the school sadly went out of business before I could take my checkride. My psychiatrist says I am safe to fly and that other patients he has fly. I pushed back knowing the FAA’s stance on such things, but one day when my finances are back on track I will go with a CFI for giggles.
 
mryan75 said:
This is the thing that scares me. This whole “reform” movement going on regarding pilot mental health seems to be focused on the idea that anyone should be able to be a pilot, no matter their mental health state. And pardon the pun, but that’s just crazy. I wish the OP well and I truly empathize and hope you find the help that you need, but there are no circumstances under which I think this person should be flying airplanes.
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I agree, schizophrenics shouldn't be flying airplanes.

My issues with the medical process are that it's a bureaucratic mess and the standards for medicals are outdated/arbitrary.
 
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