Find A Pilot / Aircraft Owner

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by weirdjim, Sep 13, 2019 at 7:52 PM.

  1. weirdjim

    weirdjim En-Route

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    Hey, folks...

    Somebody passed me a bad check for $2k+ in avionics gear. I have his name, street address, aircraft N-Number, pilot certificate number, but I don't have his phone number. I need to halt a shipment on Monday because he bought it for somebody else. I just need to call him and mention something about a felony conviction for bad check, and just tell me who it is so I can stop shipment. No other hassles.

    There are no more free search engines that I can find that will simply give me a phone number. I don't need the name of his mistress, his conviction record, his high school transcript, or his mother's maiden name. PHONE NUMBER.

    Suggestions appreciated.

    Jim
     
  2. Bell206

    Bell206 Pattern Altitude

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    It's a crime. Local PD.
     
  3. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Send a letter or knock on his door?
     
  4. NordicDave

    NordicDave Line Up and Wait

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    Assume he's gone dark with email?

    Call the shipper and have them halt the delivery.
     
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  5. simtech

    simtech En-Route PoA Supporter

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  6. Rgbeard

    Rgbeard Cleared for Takeoff

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    I don't think this is really an ethical request. But, as I'm not being helpful maybe my opinion doesn't count, anyway.
     
  7. weirdjim

    weirdjim En-Route

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    That's not going to work. He is only a middleman buying for somebody else. Did you read that?

    Thanks,
    Jim
    He is 500 miles south of me. How do you suggest I do that by Monday morning?
     
  8. weirdjim

    weirdjim En-Route

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    It counts as well as anybody elses

    Jim
     
  9. Rgbeard

    Rgbeard Cleared for Takeoff

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    I tried that site.

    WOW.

    It has my dad's info and my info blended all together as one horrible, inaccurate lump.
     
  10. weirdjim

    weirdjim En-Route

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    I have NO IDEA who he bought it for. Did you read the post?

    Thanks,

    Jim
     
  11. Rgbeard

    Rgbeard Cleared for Takeoff

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    500-miles? 10hr drive?

    Do-able.
     
  12. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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  13. Cap'n Jack

    Cap'n Jack Final Approach

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    It's not complete (my local phone book isn't here)
    It's a clunky interface
    But...phone books
    https://www.therealyellowpages.com/index.php
    Map from same site that allows you to choose a phone book to open: https://www.therealyellowpages.com/skin/entry/map.php
    The white pages are there too
     
  14. Bell206

    Bell206 Pattern Altitude

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    I read you're out $2k. You want to play Perry Mason fine. You want your money back have the cops ask the middleman and get it back. Simple.;)
     
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  15. Half Fast

    Half Fast En-Route

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    Fly.

    Did you try calling 411?
     
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  16. NordicDave

    NordicDave Line Up and Wait

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    Doesn't matter who bought it, if you shipped it the shipper and stop delivery.
     
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  17. apr911

    apr911 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Maybe not the most helpful but how did you complete a $2k transaction, getting all of that information, but not their phone number?

    I'd also note that its strange you dont know who the final recipient is but you possess a bad check? Who wrote the check?
    If the final recipient wrote the check and the middleman is exactly that, just the middleman passing/facilitating the transaction then, while confused why you would go through a middleman a all, you know who the final recipient is as they wrote the check.
    If the middle man wrote the check than they are the one who wrote you a bad check. The final recipient doesnt matter.

    As others have posted:
    A) You're the shipper. Call the shipping company and stop shipment.
    B) Call the police. They can at least intervene and process it as an attempted theft. They'll go to the middleman and either pursue them for passing a bad check or get the information of the end user who wrote the bad check and go after them. It should also be noted that although it is unlikely they'd be directly prosecuted for it (unless it can be shown they knowingly passed a bad check) the middle man is not absolved of responsibility for passing a bad check by virtue of being the middle man. It would also be admittedly be a high risk given you have his address, certificate number and plane N-Number but for all you know the end recipient doesn't actually exist and the middleman is committing a con in addition to theft and passing a bad check by telling you there is another recipient involved when they intend to keep the gear for themselves or resell it themselves.
    C) Accept the fact that you did poor diligence in a $2,000 transaction and may well be out both the money and the gear.
    D) Contine to try and play Columbo, but to what end?

    Considering the possibility this is a fraud/con in addition to a theft/bad check, option A is your only real option that might see you made whole. Calling the police with the information you currently have might just lead to a dead-end the information may well be accurate information but it might be the accurate information of an innocent pilot who's identity was stolen/used to set this up.
     
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  18. aftCG

    aftCG Pre-takeoff checklist

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    You must have different cops where you live.

    Just one example off the top of my head: In February my car got $7k worth of vandalism from a random crackhead. I was parked in front of a security camera.
    Not worth the time of the local PD to even show up. Gave me a case number over the phone. End of effort in their part.
     
  19. Sinistar

    Sinistar Pattern Altitude

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    So can you even be sure that the airman and n-number isn't a honest guy who the thief just dug up and used to look credible? You could end up chewing out the wrong guy...although he'd probably want to know.

    If you are hell bent on getting him to give you a name and you are sure he is they guy belonging to the FAA info then search hard for his employer, hangar location or bank and ask all for his phone number.

    Sorry to hear this Jim. Totally sucks.

    Why can't you stop shipment, report it as fraud and get it back? Clearly you know the address you shipped it to, even though it's different from the fraud guys address.
     
  20. apr911

    apr911 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Very different scenario's really. Vandalism is a crime yes but the odds of trackig down a random crackhead who's identity is unknown, even with security footage, is astronomically high. It also becomes a matter of degree of crime. Sure the crackhead caused a bunch of damage but that's the extent of the crime; he'd likely have to make restitution (if he could even afford it) and serve probation.

    This case involves elements of fraud, passing bogus checks and mail fraud among other things, many of which are felonies in their own right.
     
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  21. Van Johnston

    Van Johnston Cleared for Takeoff

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    Spend $20 on one of the paid sites.

    Or go old school and call information. But that costs $5 or so these days I think.

    Either way, ‘free’ is probably an unrealistic expectation. But for $2k?....
     
  22. Bacho

    Bacho Pre-Flight

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    If it was me, I would stop shipment right now. I would then try and get an explanation after the product is secure.
     
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  23. MooneyDriver78

    MooneyDriver78 Pattern Altitude

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    Yea, if you once lived in the same household. Since I have a common name, it’s blended me with other total strangers.


    Tom
     
  24. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips Pattern Altitude

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    I assume that you've looked on Facebook and other social media to see if you can find the guy. Heck, I once left a message one person's wall—for all to see—when their ducks invaded our garden, and they denied having ducks. Their main picture was, um, the ducks.
    Note that whomever wrote the check is the bad guy, and you have all of their information. It doesn't matter where the stuff goes to. Unless ... the check was stolen. Get in touch with the shipper and let them know. Would I drive 500 miles for two grand? Yep.
     
  25. iflyvfr

    iflyvfr Pattern Altitude

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    The way OP's message reads he intends to stop shipment Monday. He just wants a phone number to vent/threaten. Can't blame him but these days you have no idea who you may be dealing with as money mules are commonplace. Not necessarily related but thieves and mules are out there en mass and can be quite organized, our DOJ did some good work recently: https://www.wired.com/story/email-scammer-global-takedown/

    "Will it make a dent? It's really hard to say," says Crane Hassold, senior director of threat research at Agari who previously worked as a digital behavior analyst for the FBI, of the arrests. "There are so many actors doing BEC and other types of social engineering scams—there could be thousands, especially in West Africa—that it's going to be difficult to make a significant impact overall."

    If this was conducted entirely over email and the web, I might be able to assist with an account take-down but that's it. You might file a complaint with IC3 https://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx

    I have it on authority that that stuff gets aggregated and looked at for trends - ref above story.
     
  26. luvflyin

    luvflyin Final Approach

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    I'm confused. Whether he bought it for himself or someone else and what the shipping address is, you are the shipper. Stop the shipment. What am I missing here?
     
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  27. eb87f

    eb87f Filing Flight Plan

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    You can check the phone book (online) www.dexpages.com (free) I use it often but mostly for local numbers. I don't know how well it covers the whole US.
     
  28. MooneyDriver78

    MooneyDriver78 Pattern Altitude

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    Do people still have landlines?


    Tom
     
  29. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser!

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    It's nice that they give you access to all the phone books, but the search and navigation features are really lame.
     
  30. Rgbeard

    Rgbeard Cleared for Takeoff

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    Doesn't this seem simple? Without all the Dick Tracy stuff?
     
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  31. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I will gladly pay you Tuesday for the price of a hamburger today...

    Common scam. If you can recover the items sent, do so now. Probably not only your best hope, but probably your only hope.

    Good luck.
     
  32. Rein Hart

    Rein Hart Filing Flight Plan

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    Focus on stopping the shipment. After getting your equipment back, then focus on the check fraud issue. Don’t contact people like that directly, it will be a negative experience. Highly doubt they will say “oops, here’s $2,000, sorry about that”.
     
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  33. MuseChaser

    MuseChaser Line Up and Wait

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    @Weekend Warrior Just in case.. any input for Jim? He's a good guy, and has helped a bunch of us out. Hate to see him taken advantage of.
     
  34. simtech

    simtech En-Route PoA Supporter

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    It had my stuff spot on back to when I was a kid living with mom all the way through present. Even had family correct and all the way through the ex wife. Phone numbers and all.

    I was doing some background check on a guy selling a plane that didn't seem right. I got his number and a few other things and found it accurate.

    Those are the 2 times for me. I guess I'm more predictable than some. Haha
     
  35. weirdjim

    weirdjim En-Route

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    Got it all sorted out to everybody's satisfaction. Thanks for all the help; I really appreciate it.

    Jim
     
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  36. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I just looked myself up on this website.

    And it appears I am deceased.!!!

    I am really hoping that they got some other family member information mixed into mine.
     
  37. Fiveslide

    Fiveslide Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Ah, come on! We don't get to know HOW it ended, just that it ended? Did you get paid, stop shipment, call the cops, find them and torture them until they gave you what you wanted?

    Really hoping for that last one, it would be like a movie. Liam Neeson is standing by to accept the role of Jim.
     
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  38. CharlieD3

    CharlieD3 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Perhaps Jim has "a special set of skills" and can't talk about it....

    "Good luck"
     
  39. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser!

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    My guess:

    [Over the phone:]

    "Your check bounced."

    "Oops!"
     
  40. weirdjim

    weirdjim En-Route

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    Well, I was looking for solutions, not for vengeance. He said he thought the other party was funding his account, the other party said he was waiting to be told how much, and I didn't give a damn if that was the truth or not. He offered to send me a check, pay my bank's return fee, and wait two weeks until the check cleared. All is peace and happiness in the world of avionics.

    Jim