Finally restarted my flying lessons.

Crashnburn said:
…The crosswind was stronger than I expected, and 30 R didn't register with me immediately, so we drifted almost into 30L's path. I got told about it; luckily, I didn't get a phone number….
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What was your takeoff clearance?

www.boldmethod.com

Should You Fly Runway Heading OR Runway Centerline On Takeoff? It Depends...

There's a big difference between being assigned "fly runway heading" and flying a runway track, or the extended runway centerline, on departure.
www.boldmethod.com www.boldmethod.com
 
TLDR: Yesterday's lesson was more pilotage practice. I flew from Longmont to Pine Bluff, WY. Then to Akron, CO, and back to Longmont, and boy my arms are tired.

There's smoke blowing in from the OR and WA fires, so it was hazy from the smoke the whole flight. Along with the haze, there was turbulence and thermals. We flew most of the east bound flight at 9500 feet. The air was pretty smooth there.

As I descended to Pine Bluff's pattern altitude, the air got choppier and gustier. I was hoping the air would smooth out as I got closer to the ground, but no such luck. I was on final, and I didn't like how the wind was banging the plane around so I went around. On climb out, a gust hit the plane so hard Aaron's iPad suction mount came off the windscreen. I'd say that was good ADM. I didn't attempt another landing there.

We flew most of the way to Akron at 9,500 feet, in relatively smooth air. Again, the turbulence got worse, so I circled the airport and headed back to Longmont, at 8,500 feet until we got close to the Bravo 8000 foot floor. After that, we flew at 7000 feet. The terrain is around 5000 feet MSL, so we were below the hemispherical course recommendation floor. It was pretty bumpy there.

The smokey haze obscured my horizon so Aaron said that was why he thought I had problems following the magenta line. I had good division of attention practice on the way back. I was trying to keep the altitude at 7000 feet, keep the airspeed at or below VA, which is about 95 knots, stay on the magenta line, and look for landmarks along the way. I did better, but not well enough to make a solo XC, yet.

The pre-descent card I made helped a lot. I just need to only do one item on the list at a time, then look at my instruments before coming back to the next line.
I've decided that unless I can legally permanently remove the pilot's arm rest from the door, Skyhawks are dead to me. I only have room to move my arm when it's on the arm rest, and that forces my shoulder up. After a while my shoulder started telling me it didn't like that position.

The whole flight was 2.7 tiring hours. I was wondering how good my landing would be after that endurance contest. Pattern altitude was bumpy, so I expected bumps all the way to the ground, but happily, I was wrong. The air smoothed out on final.

I was a little slow on final. I tried adding power to speed up, but the plane had too much inertia for that to make much difference. Instead, I kept power in a little longer, and we were a little lower when I went to idle. My goal on that landing was a soft field landing. In the past, I've been rounding out, then flaring a little high, with some ballooning, and adding too much power that kept us out of ground effect until the plane was too slow even for ground effect.

This time, I pretty much rounded out in ground effect, flared just enough, added just enough power, and touched my left main down, followed by the right main, followed by the nose wheel. My CFI said it was a very smooth landing. I guess I was too tired this time to over control. (I'll take it. :))
 
Crashnburn said:
The smokey haze obscured my horizon so Aaron said that was why he thought I had problems following the magenta line. I had good division of attention practice on the way back. I was trying to keep the altitude at 7000 feet, keep the airspeed at or below VA, which is about 95 knots, stay on the magenta line, and look for landmarks along the way. I did better, but not well enough to make a solo XC, yet.
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I know we’re firmly in the era of the magenta line, but are you able to navigate via pilotage yet? Or dead reckoning? I feel like that should come first - the ability to visually identify and follow a course, then similarly the ability to hold a heading and make adjustments to your course as you recognize whether or not you’re following it laterally. Unless I’m actually IFR or decidedly, intentionally using the magenta line as a primary for some reason, it’s usually just a backstop to me, something I check on occasionally as a backup for the other methods when I’m hand flying. Important to know how to use it, absolutely, but the other methods are crucial in using it effectively and becoming a well-rounded pilot.

The smoke does suck and I hope you’re aware of how insidious it can be. It’ll even fool forecasters and observation stations alike - causing the effective visibility to be much lower than what’s reported. Obscuration of the horizon due to smoke, haze, especially over featureless areas (and even moreso at night) can cause spatial disorientation, not much different than if you were in IMC.
 
Flying Keys said:
I know we’re firmly in the era of the magenta line, but are you able to navigate via pilotage yet? Or dead reckoning? I feel like that should come first - the ability to visually identify and follow a course, then similarly the ability to hold a heading and make adjustments to your course as you recognize whether or not you’re following it laterally. Unless I’m actually IFR or decidedly, intentionally using the magenta line as a primary for some reason, it’s usually just a backstop to me, something I check on occasionally as a backup for the other methods when I’m hand flying. Important to know how to use it, absolutely, but the other methods are crucial in using it effectively and becoming a well-rounded pilot.

The smoke does suck and I hope you’re aware of how insidious it can be. It’ll even fool forecasters and observation stations alike - causing the effective visibility to be much lower than what’s reported. Obscuration of the horizon due to smoke, haze, especially over featureless areas (and even moreso at night) can cause spatial disorientation, not much different than if you were in IMC.
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I only did pilotage when I was flying in CA, except for one try at ded reckoning. There's a lot fewer landmarks in this area to navigate by.

I've done the minimum foggles time and had no issues with spatial disorientation.
 
Gilbert Buettner said:
When the tower instructs you to "fly runway heading," that is EXACTLY what they want you to do, regardless of wind.
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If I'm taking off runway 30R and the wind is blowing me towards 30L, I'm maintaining centerline, not heading. While you're technically correct, a bit of judgement. Faster plane taking off 30L may not follow the exact same course on the same heading.
 
Crashnburn said:
I only did pilotage when I was flying in CA, except for one try at ded reckoning. There's a lot fewer landmarks in this area to navigate by.

I've done the minimum foggles time and had no issues with spatial disorientation.
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I understand your perspective, but hear me out.

I know the plains of northeastern Colorado don’t have a lot of features but I guarantee they have enough for pilotage. As you near the front range there is quite a lot.

As far as spatial D, there are a ton of pilots out there that thought they had no issues… until they did. There is no foggle time required, per se, so I assume you mean minimum overall instrument training time, which is close to nothing, relatively. It’s meant to help you if you accidentally get yourself into a bad situation but the trick is to avoid ever needing it in the first place. There are pilots with a lot more experience than you, not to mention actual certification, that aren’t around to talk about it. I mean, you said yourself that your CFI thinks the smoke was affecting your ability to navigate.

Maybe I’m reading it wrong, but the way you wrote it almost sounded like rationalization.
 
what I’m confused about is crash starts our saying he is practicing pilotage. later in the post he says he had trouble following the magenta line. crash if u were practicing pilotage weren’t u navigating by spotting landmarks?
 
Gilbert Buettner said:
When the tower instructs you to "fly runway heading," that is EXACTLY what they want you to do, regardless of wind.
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That's why I was asking. I've never heard a tower or departure control ask for runway centerline. It's always been "Maintain runway heading to x,000 feet, then on course as filed. Expect y,000 ft......" or something similar.
 
Gilbert Buettner said:
When the tower instructs you to "fly runway heading," that is EXACTLY what they want you to do, regardless of wind.
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Might want to read the entire article that was posted to the OP's question. It is exactly correct that fly runway heading means heading, not track. Having said that, note that several airports that have parallel runways and intensive training traffic, expect pilots flying out of there to maintain centerline. Note the OP was told by the tower to move over.

Quote from the article;
"This is most evident at airports like Grand Forks (KGFK), Denver Centennial (KAPA), and Rocky Mountain Metro (KBJC), all airports with close parallel runways and hundreds of daily VFR traffic pattern operations.

Some controllers expressed it's their primary objective to have all VFR departures maintain runway centerline to reduce the risk of traffic conflicts from parallel runways, upwind, or downwind VFR traffic."

I'm not arguing the intent of the "fly runway heading" instruction, just that there may be a need to use some common sense in certain situations. Like maintain centerline until above pattern altitude at an airport with parallel runways and heavy VFR pattern traffic. Or clarify the instruction if unsure.

https://www.boldmethod.com/learn-to...-heading-or-runway-centerline-on-takeoff-vfr/
 
Hang 4 said:
…Some controllers expressed it's their primary objective to have all VFR departures maintain runway centerline to reduce the risk of traffic conflicts from parallel runways, upwind, or downwind VFR traffic."[/COLOR]….
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If a controller has an intent, they need to verbalize it in the takeoff clearance.

Hang 4 said:
…I'm not arguing the intent of the "fly runway heading" instruction, just that there may be a need to use some common sense in certain situations. Like maintain centerline until above pattern altitude at an airport with parallel runways and heavy VFR pattern traffic....
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That’s all fine and good until the pilot and ATC aren’t in the same sheet of music, which is why absent an instruction when there’s active parallel ops, it’s a good idea to

Hang 4 said:
… clarify the instruction…
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Especially if you’re not familiar with unwritten local customs.
 
While this departure discussion has been all well and good,
the OP appears to have been talking about arrival.

Crashnburn said:
... We used my note card that has the acronym Claudia gave me after my previous flight with her. It helped a lot in getting ready for contacting Metro Tower. I was able to keep up with the controller, it was just hard to find a break in the comms so I could state my intentions.

The crosswind was stronger than I expected, and 30 R didn't register with me immediately, so we drifted almost into 30L's path. I got told about it; luckily, I didn't get a phone number.

I did a soft- field crosswind with gusts landing there, and back at KLMO. ...
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Hang 4 said:
Note the OP was told by the tower to move over.
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Y'know, it'd really help if the FAA would just paint a continued centerline for a few miles beyond the airport, over trees, roads, houses, whatever.
 
TCABM said:
Especially if you’re not familiar with unwritten local customs.
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How would one know what the unwritten local customs actually are though?

Why would I feel the need to clarify? It's not confusing. Fly runway heading. If you meant centerline why didn't you say centerline?
 
JoeSelch said:
While this departure discussion has been all well and good,
the OP appears to have been talking about arrival.
Click to expand...

Good catch. Arrivals to an active parallel operation have their own challenges, especially if both patterns are active.
 
I was supposed to fly today and had several things in mind to work on, but EQ's tach went haywire, so they down checked it and to it over for repairs. And today was great flying weather. Around 60 degrees F, light winds, and high ceilings. I was disappointed.

I did fly Monday. I wanted to get familiar with tower ops, so we flew to Loveland (KFNL) for 3 touch and goes. I did all the tower comms, 2 soft field landings and 1 short field. It was pretty busy there. Once I had to extend my base and wait for his call, but I think he forgot about us because Aaron pretended he'd missed the controller's call after we'd cleared traffic. Another time I had to do a left 360 for spacing. There was another 4EQ in the pattern so I acknowledged I would be using my full tail number (734EQ).

I'd done a couple of tower ops at KBJC, with coaching, but what really helped was all the time I did tower ops at KRHV, San Jose, before I moved to CO.

Aaron said a couple times that he was happy with my comms at KFNL. So, my next XC, I want to fly into Cheyenne to practice for my solo XC. There's a wrinkle in that mix, as they have app/dep control. I haven't dealt with app/dep since I flew at KICT in 2007. It would be ideal to have a third radio but there's no chance the FBO's owner will spring for one.

At least EQ's new 160 HP engine isn't as marginal as the one that started making metal.

My next lesson is scheduled for Saturday. I hope the WX holds.
 
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Just in case anyone was concerned, I was not in the plane that crashed and killed both occupants at KEIK Sunday.

My most recent flight was a maintenance flight to KJBC to get a slow flap motor replaced.

My comms were fine, I stayed about 65 knots on final, I touched down on and straight down the runway and according to my CFI, I greased the landing.

Winds were too strong and too much turbulence to fly today. Next flight is scheduled for Thursday. I want to do a round-robin of local airports. I already have the flight mapped on ForeFlight.
 
I did this round-robin Thursday, in 2.6 hours, and as KFMM is > 50 nm from KEIK, it qualifies as a XC. KLMO->KFNL-KGXY-KFMM-KEIK-KBDL-KLMO. I wanted to do that to practice being ahead of the aircraft.
Today, I did KLMO-KFNL-KGXY-KEIK-KLMO.

KGXY traffic was busy enough today that I dd 2 360's to let traffic sort itself out. There was an inconsiderate motor-glider pilot at KLMO. Everyone else was landing on 290, but he HAD to use 11. That's unsafe.

I was on downwind when he said he was taking 11 so we extended our downwind, turning it into an upwind, then did an extended crosswind and joined the 11 downwind on the 45. Good practice when someone doesn't want to play nice and stay with the established traffic.
 
I only had two flights in November, between illness, weather, and a broken plane. My last flight in October was on the 30th. I did my best keep the speed on final to 65 knots but my instructor said I was getting down to 55. Finally he told me I was was pulling the power too soon. On the 20th, I waited until I was almost to the threshold before I pulled power. That was as a great landing and everything fly slower than before. I had 5 more really good landings after that.

The next lesson I pulled the throttle out a little slower and the nose didn’t drop as much.

I’m finding traffic when I look, sometimes faster than Aaron. I just need to have a continuous scan.

I didn’t fly today. The plane was covered with ice and frost. Maybe Wednesday.
 
One more thing. I just raised one of my minimums. The last landing of my first November lesson was in a 20 knot crosswind and I got it down ont the center line and heading straight down the runway.

The next lesson after Greeley we had planned on flying to Ft Morgan but the winds were worse than my nominal minimums so we went to Erie and I practiced my right patterns. I had a hard time keeping my altitude with 30 degrees bank, but 25 degrees was a piece of cake.

I didn’t fly today. The MOS forecast was for low IFR and I wasn’t feeling all that great. I should be fine by Monday.
 
Dang, just read all 15 pages.

Just no way this seems right. 250 hrs TT, 0.5 PIC, written not done…
.
I’m starting to think Crash is an Airbus 350 driver for Delta, and just having fun posting and trolling during his layovers.

Well done, Captain!
 
starting to think?! the whole thing is absurd but wildly entertaining
 
best thing is people encouraging him as if it’s real. “comgratulations crash!”. i mean even the name. cmon!
 
wellknow said:
starting to think?! the whole thing is absurd but wildly entertaining
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Without a doubt, one of the better troll posts.
Crash is sitting at the Raffles Hotel Bar in Singapore, knocking back a Singapore slng, and having a bit of fun posting.
 
Hats off to crash and burn, the olivia nuzzi of poa!
 
Joe Schmoe said:
Dang, just read all 15 pages.

Just no way this seems right. 250 hrs TT, 0.5 PIC, written not done…
.
I’m starting to think Crash is an Airbus 350 driver for Delta, and just having fun posting and trolling during his layovers.

Well done, Captain!
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Yep
 
Joe Schmoe said:
Without a doubt, one of the better troll posts.
Crash is sitting at the Raffles Hotel Bar in Singapore, knocking back a Singapore slng, and having a bit of fun posting.
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Would that were true, but I'm going for the record of most dual time before PPL. :)

I am making progress. I knocked out three requirements last Tuesday in one flight. I got more than 3 hours night flight, 10 night landings, and my night cross-country done. I might be legal to fly at night, but I need more night flight time to feel comfortable. This was the third try. The first two got cancelled because of high winds.

Tomorrow we are heading up to KFNL to brush up on my tower comms before I do my 3 solo landings to a full stop at a towered airport.
 
Fortunately for all of us crash is better writer than pilot. i like when he brings in the non flying life drama. this should go on for years if we are lucky. checkrides! instrument training. decision to become a cfi!
 
Crashnburn said:
Would that were true, but I'm going for the record of most dual time before PPL. :)

I am making progress. I knocked out three requirements last Tuesday in one flight. I got more than 3 hours night flight, 10 night landings, and my night cross-country done. I might be legal to fly at night, but I need more night flight time to feel comfortable. This was the third try. The first two got cancelled because of high winds.

Tomorrow we are heading up to KFNL to brush up on my tower comms before I do my 3 solo landings to a full stop at a towered airport.
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How much dual and solo time are you sitting at now? How many hours of dual have you received at this new school? And how much solo time have you logged since you've been there?

And why in the world would you be knocking off those night time PPL flights before getting more solo time under your belt.

Just a very strange and unusual training timeline. I'm guessing you're well over $40k into this flying adventure with maybe 0.5 hours of solo time???
 
I read the first page and the last page (#15). I started flying in 1989. I remember coming into the FBO and there was a celebration where a guy had just solo’d. i looked at my CFI and asked when do I get to solo? He said “you need to finish your written first”. I said, so when were you going to tell me that ****?

90% of all student pilots never get their license. Most CFI’s are building time and riding their students like rented mules.

I remember jumping back into flight training after a few years off. First flight I was doing the run-up checklist. After going through this extensive wazoo checklist. I realised that I had been performing the IFR run-up and the instructor couldn’t be bothered to tell me.

I always tell new or potential students to get a 1st class medical before they spend a dime on training. I recommend American Eagle ground school to pass the written. If you can’t pass the medical why spend any money? Getting the written out of the way removes the roadblocks to being able to solo.

Recently I hired a girl to paint my RV7. She had previously only painted cars and had done several corvettes. Her brother was part of her crew and asked a hundred questions about learning to fly. BTW she did a fantastic job painting my aircraft.

Long story short he started flying lessons and I hired him to do some welding and traded some flight time in my Aircoupe.

While I was flying he related that he had 4 hours cockpit time training. I had been demonstrating the quirks of my Aircoupe and I ended up landing long at another airport near me. I asked him if he wanted to taxi back to the runway. He was surprised!

He taxied back and enroute he had never taxied, never taken off, and never been allowed to land.

Needless to say, before we shut the motor off, he had successfully performed all three maneuvers.

I told him that when he gets his next lesson with his CFI, for the most part he shouldn’t let his instructor manipulate the controls except in an emergency or to demonstrate a maneuver.

Needless to say he has solo’d and is looking to pass his ppl check-ride.
 
Yup, the school I taught at, all of that was expected.

Even on discovery flights , folks did 90 percent of the flying.

We would have them taxi, take off (but I would work the rudder), have them use trim, make some calls in the practice area and on landing I would just help with rudder use and the flare.

For the run up, we would have them read off the checklist and the CFI would do the run up..The run up could be a bit overwhelming for a discovery flight student and could take a chunk of their time.

Instructed at a busy class D airport and we tried to do the right thing for every student.

Those who were hired to pad their logbook got let go pretty quick as every 10 hours of instruction , students would have a proficiency check with the owner/chief pilot to see how they were progressing.

He wasn't looking for perfection but just wanted to make sure the students were manipulating the controls and talking on the radio.

During the 20 hr pre solo.check he wanted to see what their maneuvers were like and if they were being taught the right way.

It was a really reputable flight school. The owner eventually sold the school, retired and moved away to be closer to his grandkids but he sure cared and made sure his instructors cared as well. When hiring instructors , the owners main concern was finding instructors who had the right attitude.

Teaching the schools way (Part 61 with their own syllabus) could be taught, but attitude is something that can't be taught.

Sad part is, after the school was acquired the quality of instruction went down quite a bit as the owners were just concerned more about the bottom line than quality of instruction.
 
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I worked 14+ years at a local Part 61 school. By the third lesson my students were attempting to land the airplane. Our syllabus wasn't designed for quick solo, most got there around 20 hours in. Since I already had thousands of hours, I never tried to build time - and I wasn't doing it to make money, either. The young CFIs I worked with were very busy and did not have to try to pad time - they were (and still are) flying three or four lessons a day.
 
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