Finally got my E6-B today

Discussion in 'Pilot Training' started by Daniel L, Dec 9, 2017.

  1. Daniel L

    Daniel L Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I'm learning how to use the flight computer as we speak. It's the ASA issued one.

    Anyway, the instruction book has examples and I'm going through them pretty easily. The thing isn't as complicated as I thought it was going to be, despite the poor writing in the manual.

    I am having an issue matching my result with the answer in the book. It's a question of fuel consumption, endurance, and capacity.

    Gallons/hr = 8.5
    Total Used = 38

    I move the rate arrow to 8.5 and look over at 38 and it looks to be roughly 4:34

    The book's answer is 4:28. Not sure what I'm missing but I got all the other ones right.

    Can someone please confirm or let me know how I'm doing it wrong? I've attached images of my e6-b as illustration.

    Thanks in advance[​IMG][​IMG]

    Sent from my big plastic brick.
     
  2. robert lomax

    robert lomax Pre-takeoff checklist

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    just bought 6329R 66 PA 28 Im a plane owner mpg
    you have lined up your tape with 39,, not 38
     
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  3. Axtel4

    Axtel4 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Your green marker looks like it is at 39 gallons used. At 38 gallons the duration is just past the 75% point between the 20 and 30 minute marks.
     
  4. LongRoadBob

    LongRoadBob Line Up and Wait

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    I'm a student too...I have a Pooleys CRP-1 version of E6B.

    Unless I'm missing something too...

    if you haven't accidentally moved the dial between the two photos I agree and see it as you do.

    I did the math... (60 X 38) / 8.5 = 268.235 (call it 268) and 268 /60 = 4.46666 hrs.
    .4666 X 60 = 27.96 (call it 28) so... 4:28 ! Book is right.

    Oops... Now I see it. Your green marker is on 39, not 38.

    It's easy to do. It helps me to check two ways (up from the last named number, down from the next) as habit to make sure I'm on the right marker.

    Just for clarity...I didn't see the other answers, I started out as the first reply. But it took me a while to answer!

    ALSO...Before starting my answer, I "double checked" and thought still that you had it right. That's scary but as I said I like to check from bottom up and top down, but couldn't see the 40 on down so well. I caught it on triple check...

    I've been using mine for a while now, just took my exams, and I practiced a lot with mine. I noticed for me at least, keeping track of units (and doing mental estimates of at least magnitude of the answer expected, that wouldn't have helped here though) can be tricky.
    In the exam, if I was unsure I would plug in numbers that I could do in my head (like 60 miles per hour, 1 gallon per 60 minutes) just to double check the process.

    Also at least for a while on practicing this, I actually sometimes read off the inner ring when I should have read the outer, and vice verse. There are some combinations of this that seem to give an approximate "correct answer" which can trip me up. So I drilled a lot and again the plugging in easy combinations to check helps.

    Then too, doing the math by hand helps to double check, if time permits.

    And I can admit, I toyed with the idea of bringing a backup E6B as I used mine so much I had an irrational picture of starting the exam and the thing falling apart. I resisted.
    :)

    A cool thing with these too, you can plug in pressure alt, etc and look around the scale and remember how temperature effects true altitude, etc. change the temp and you can read up and down the scale and see the effects.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2017
  5. AlleyCat67

    AlleyCat67 Filing Flight Plan

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    There's a series of videos from a South Asian flight school on using the e6b that I found helpful. They are very short and to-the-point. Go on Youtube and search "Suwaiket Aviation e6b".
     
  6. champ driver

    champ driver Line Up and Wait

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    On the second photo, if you count to 38 on the outer ring, that's just short of the green tape. Now move to the inner most ring where it says 4:00, then count the hash marks at 4:10 and 4:20 and 4:30, then 38 lines up with 4:28, at least within a minute or so.
    Your mistake is using the wrong ring to count time, you're using the inner for hours (which is correct) and then moving back to the middle ring and counting from there and getting 4:34.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2017
  7. N659HB

    N659HB Pattern Altitude

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    The edge of your tape is on the 39 mark.
     
  8. bflynn

    bflynn En-Route

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    It's an interesting tool to use. To be honest though I have to admit that I've almost never used it after my primary instruction. IF I were really good, I could probably make use of it on the fly in the airplane, but for flight planning I use computer stuff, then adjust to the reality in the air. For example I might think I'm going to have a 2 degree wind correction angle, but when I get up there I fly the course by visual landmarks and learn that it's actually 10 degrees because the wind isn't listening to the prediction So all my planned courses are off but not all by 8 degrees. Pilotage is more important than the planning.
     
  9. Ravioli

    Ravioli Final Approach

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    Like @bflynn, I rarely use an E6B anymore. Not even sure I can find mine. And no, it wasn't metal.

    Fortunately the instructions are printed right on it. I was "helping" @Ravioli's co-pilot practice with it. [She's a solo student right now] I use the term helping very loosely. I was able to get the correct answer in one or two tries ;)

    Perhaps the only things she learned are that I don't know much and that the e6b is a required relic.
     
  10. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I took ground school from physics professor at Johns Hopkins University. He didn't have us buy E6's because he told we could compute it all our scientific calculators and vector math.
     
  11. LongRoadBob

    LongRoadBob Line Up and Wait

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    I'm just a student, and don't know the apps that one can have to use, but one thing I really like about the E6B is getting competent with it, it's enjoyable, but also that once you set up the problem, you get your answer but also you get ALL answers, right there laid out for you for certain functions like fuel consumption, distance per time, etc. and can easily see the relations of the factors involved. You don't have to enter in "ok, that's for 20 minutes from now, what about 45?" Probably not a big deal for an experienced pilot to do in their head, but extrapolating it I think is kinda nice when it is all laid out for you.

    It really helps me visualize it. Digest it. Also on the wind side, same thing kind of...one book Pooleys, which has some errors, but still is a good book showed how the wind triangle is when computing headings, etc. and that really helped me see how it works, and conversely what it really represents. Also the crosswind component part (the graph part that is a grid).

    I'm sure I will eventually go over to a good app, but I really like learning the E6B.

    I think that even if pilotage is more important than planning, planning is pretty essential for cross country, even if it all goes "pear shaped" when you actually are up there. But you are a pilot, I'm just learning to become one. I know I don't know squat yet.
     
  12. AKBill

    AKBill Pattern Altitude

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    Whats an E6-B..:rolleyes:
     
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  13. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I think it’s TACAMO but not certain...
     
  14. N659HB

    N659HB Pattern Altitude

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    What's an electrical system? :eek:
     
  15. Skyrys62

    Skyrys62 Pattern Altitude

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    [​IMG]
     
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  16. N659HB

    N659HB Pattern Altitude

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    Killer bees! :eek:
     
  17. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    EA-6B

    IMG_3315.JPG Navy E-6B

    IMG_3314.JPG
     
  18. John221us

    John221us En-Route

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    I would have gone this route, but they don’t allow scientific calculators for the test (also obsolete technology, since every smart phone is now a computer). A plastic E6B is the cheapest way to check that box, knowing that I would never pick it up again after training and I haven’t. I will also admit, that it did not make me a better pilot by learning how to use a slide rule. It did not increase my understanding of the underlying math, as I already had a pretty good grasp on that. The “wiz wheel” is an obsolete relic and a great example of how slowly the FAA adopts new technology, technology that can actually improve the safety of aviation.
     
  19. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser!

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  20. LongRoadBob

    LongRoadBob Line Up and Wait

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    Again, just to point out, it's definitely helping me to learn it. I'm not fantastic at higher math and it really does give me a better understanding. It's just a tool. For folks that are naturally good with math, this kind, maybe it's superfluous, but for some of us, it's a pretty darn good thing to learn even if we all go over to apps after. It gives me a good or better sense of the relationships.
     
  21. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner En-Route

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    Same for piston engines, magnetos, mixture controls, any number of obsolete technologies that we don't use after our Private Pilot checkride.
     
  22. John221us

    John221us En-Route

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    No, not like that at all. I think the training should be updated to modern flight planning tools, like EFBs and online flightplanning websites. That IS what people use after they get their certificate. If the E6B works for you, more power to you, but an E6B is not going to save my bacon, if I get lost and I don’t even count it in my bag of tricks. I do carry several electronic devices with moving maps and I have a paper map, which I don’t expect to need. If an EMP takes out the satellite network while I am enroute, I’ll have much bigger problems on my hands.
     
  23. Daniel L

    Daniel L Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Thanks people. I should've quit then. Because it was really late and shortly after my post i fell asleep on the couch. I was really tired but eager to learn the thing.

    Now that I'm fresh i see what everyone else saw... I marked 39.

    Sent from my cheap plastic brick using Tapatalk
     
  24. Daniel L

    Daniel L Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Continuing with the conversation, my cfi said there are many useful tools that make it easier but he wants me to learn to flight planning the old way first.

    I could imaging my e6b collecting dust after i get my license.

    Sent from my cheap plastic brick using Tapatalk
     
  25. somorris

    somorris Pattern Altitude

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    Good luck with the E6B, Daniel. I think, as others pointed out, you were just looking at the wrong hash mark. And, although most of us rarely use an E6B for our actual flying, it is (at least in my opinion) a very good way to help a learning pilot visualize what the electronics are telling him or her. It never hurts to have a reality check for the computers.

    Hang in there. As you indicated, the E6B is not an overly complicated piece of equipment and is fairly easy to learn.
     
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  26. Skyrys62

    Skyrys62 Pattern Altitude

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    I had to go back and see what I did wrong several times on the E6-B questions (and the VOR, and the long/lat, W&B, etc.)
    No apology necessary for that stuff lol. It's just what happens.
    Those little mistakes help you analyze, learn, and commit to memory.

    And...if you aren't sleepy using an E6-B, well then you are a complete nerd!!
     
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  27. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner En-Route

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    I think people should be taught a variety of methods, so they can choose what they use.

    I think if a learning a particular method helps someone understand the process, they should learn it.

    I think people who don't need to use that particular method to learn shouldn't say that particular method is bad when it helps somebody else learn.
     
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  28. John221us

    John221us En-Route

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    I am not putting down anyone's personal desire to learn how to use an E6B and if it helps them, great. My point is that the FAA should not be teaching that technology as part of the official curriculum. They should be teaching modern tools. The ones that pilots will actually use in the real world. Slide rules were obsolete by the time I was doing high school level math and I am almost 55 years old.
     
  29. Half Fast

    Half Fast Pattern Altitude

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    If an e6b is good enough for flight management of the USS Enterprise, it's good enough to fly a piddly little airplane...
     
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  30. Half Fast

    Half Fast Pattern Altitude

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    To be clear, the FAA does allow electronic e6bs for the exam. They just prohibit anything with a memory. The online system even has an e6b as part of the software.

    Requirements to use an old slide rule type are imposed by CFIs, not the FAA.
     
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  31. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I remember pulling out of the flight school with my bag of stuff they insisted I buy including the E6. I had a fairly new car at that point and I wanted to compute the MPG at the gas pump. Oh yeah, I've got this slide rule thing in my flight bag.
     
  32. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    LOL I used that thing for my El Camino when the speedometer was out. Used the mileage markers on the Interstate and worked it out.
     
  33. Daniel L

    Daniel L Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Agreed. But for a tool ill only use during flight training ill keep it cheap and use the old way.

    He showed me the electronic e6 ad it was far more expensive.

    Sent from my cheap plastic brick using Tapatalk
     
  34. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner En-Route

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    I was in high school right behind you, but I found a whiz wheel to be the quickest, most effective method to get the job done for flight planning and in flight until very recently...and for some tasks, it's still the fastest way. If a pilot actually spends the time to learn it, it's far from obsolete.

    Frankly, the way lot of pilots use newer technology without understanding what it's actually giving them is far more detrimental to aviation IMO.
     
  35. John221us

    John221us En-Route

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    I am sure it is a great tool for you. No argument, but I haven’t met a single pilot in my community, outside of flight training, that uses an E6B for flight planning or even enroute. It is my belief that FAA pilot training should include the tools that future pilots will actually use, not the ones that grandad used. Underlying concepts can be taught without the use of a slide rule. I don’t understand how that provides more insight than a chart or a graph. As far as people forgetting what they learned; that happens, has happened throughout history and will continue to happen.
     
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  36. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner En-Route

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    It appears to me that the reason more people don't use whiz wheels or other "old technologies" seems to be more due to lack of instructor competence in those technologies and the lack of willingness by pilots to expend the effort to learn them, not the fact that they're obsolete.

    The same appears true for "new technologies". Instructors don't understand them, and pilots don't want to expend the effort to learn them. The result is the same lack of proficiency.

    Forgetting is an entirely different part of the instructor not understanding and pilots not expending the effort equation.
     
  37. JonH

    JonH Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Mechanical E6-B got me into trouble a few times.

    Also on my PPL checkride my DPE told me to put it away and come up with estimates in my head. My DPE was pretty old school, and looked at me sideways when I pulled it out. I was trying to impress him by using it and he wasn't impressed at all.
     
  38. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Flight planning is better in so many ways using online based computer methods. Yes, an E6-B is obsolete for flight planning.

    In flight I have continuously solved navigation output. Many folks have fuel calcs included. Yes, an E6-B is obsolete.

    Students don’t expend the effort because better tools are readily available. Yes, an E6-B is obsolete.
     
  39. Half Fast

    Half Fast Pattern Altitude

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    Again - the FAA does not require a mechanical e6b for training.
     
  40. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner En-Route

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    Do online based computer methods easily account for possible wind forecasting errors?

    Do they calculate fuel burns and ground speeds for a different altitude than what you're at, so you can figure out if you'll save time and/or money by changing altitude? Obsolete saved us $500 one day. Or even for how the winds will change ahead?

    so why don't they expend the effort to be proficient at those better tools that are readily available?
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2017