Finally a plane I want to WIN!

That is a nice plane, I don't have any use for it myself (other than to sell to buy the airplane I would have a use for).
 
Maybe as part of the refurbishment they'll move the wings up under the fuselage where they belong :)
 
What's the real difference between the Cardinal and a newer Skyhawk? (I specified newer, because they have the 180HP engine). Specs look similar, though the Cardinal will, of course, be carbeurated. (sp?)
 
What's the real difference between the Cardinal and a newer Skyhawk? (I specified newer, because they have the 180HP engine). Specs look similar, though the Cardinal will, of course, be carbeurated. (sp?)

Cardinal is MUCH roomier. The doors are like barn doors and make access to the rear seats actually possible without being a contortionist. I haven't flown a straight-leg Cardinal, but the RG version that I've flown was much more 'fun' to fly - like flying a sedan as opposed to a pickup truck. The 200hp RG also has more useful load and cruises at about 140kts - not sure about performance with the 180hp straight-leg.

-Chris
 
What's the real difference between the Cardinal and a newer Skyhawk? (I specified newer, because they have the 180HP engine). Specs look similar, though the Cardinal will, of course, be carbeurated. (sp?)
Better visibility, cabin access, cabin room, speed and handling; more complex systems (constant-speed prop, cowl flaps).

-- Pilawt
 
Always liked the Cardinal...the 180 hp Lycoming has the right balance of fuel efficiency and performance for my needs (wish I had one in my 170), and what a pretty airframe. If I ever move somewhere back in the CONUS where I would be flying mostly paved airport to paved airport and no longer really need a tail dragger (heresy, I know :eek: ) I'd strongly consider a Cardinal.

Especially a AOPA Cardinal...you know its going to be sweeeeet when they finish it:goofy:
 
The cardinal looks like a Skylane (C-182) without the wing braces. Any other notable or not so notable differences ?
 
Cardinal is MUCH roomier. The doors are like barn doors and make access to the rear seats actually possible without being a contortionist. I haven't flown a straight-leg Cardinal, but the RG version that I've flown was much more 'fun' to fly - like flying a sedan as opposed to a pickup truck. The 200hp RG also has more useful load and cruises at about 140kts - not sure about performance with the 180hp straight-leg.

-Chris
I've flown the Cardinal RG also. It does have more interior room than the Skyhawk and it is easier to get in and out of than the Skyhawk or Skylane. The barn door doors are great for access and catching the wind if you are not careful. I think that is why the plane I flew leaked lots of both air and water. The 180 HP straight leg version does not seem to be any faster or able to carry any more than the 172 with the 180 HP STC. My personnal opinion is that the Cardinal's biggest advantage was ingress, egress and it's sexy looks, but in most other areas it was no better than the 172.

Just my $.02. If I were to win it, it would have to go on the block.
 
The Cardinal was originally designed to replace the 172. After hiccups Cessna decided to retain both.

They are really two different airplanes, despite both being four seaters with appr. the same useful load. With 180 horses and a constant speed prop it definitely cruises faster than the 172, even newer ones, though it isn't the performer of the comparable-year 182s. I believe it does not possess a utility category certification like the 172. I've only flown in one as a student on a free ride with an acquaintance a few years ago, but as someone who is 6'3" and 195 lbs I loved the cabin, and I noted that it seemed to handle much more crisply than a 172.. Plus its beautiful lines outclass just about any other small standard category GA plane except some of the newer composites. When I first saw the new Cessna light-sport plane last year I immediately thought: Cardinal!
 
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The cardinal looks like a Skylane (C-182) without the wing braces. Any other notable or not so notable differences ?
They are completely different airframes, with few if any common parts.

The cantilever wing is set relatively far back on the cabin for improved visibility, and to give enough pitch authority for the shorter arm, Cessna for the first time used a stabilator on a production airplane. It is because of the stabilator that the Cardinal handles differently from a 172 in pitch -- not badly, mind you, just differently from other airplanes Cessna customers were used to. In pitch it is actually very much like a Cherokee, but that scared some customers off in the early years. It also sits lower to the ground than a lot of Skyhawk pilots were used to.

Some pilots of the first year's production models (1968) managed to set up a porpoising action on landing, with resulting damage to the nose gear. It was thought that a stabilator stall contributed to it, causing the nose to drop suddenly in the flare. So for 1969 and all Cardinals thereafter, slots were installed in the leading edge of the stabilator to direct airflow to the underside and prevent stabilator stall. The stabilator linkage was changed, as well. Most all '68 Cardinals were retrofitted with stabilator slots in a big "recall" by Cessna. (For the record, I was checked out in a brand new, unmodified '68 Cardinal the day I got my private license, flew it quite a bit, and never had any problem.)

As mentioned above, the Cardinal was originally intended to replace the 172 (in fact, during development its factory model number was "172J"), so it had the same 150-hp engine as the '68 Skyhawk. The larger Cardinal airframe was underpowered with that engine, so beginning with the 1969 model (177A) fixed-gear Cardinals were built with 180-hp engines. The 1970 177B added constant-speed prop, cowl flaps, and a recontoured wing leading edge. The 177B, built through 1978, is a fine, sweet-flying airplane.

But the bad press of the original '68 model continued to inhibit sales of later models. That, plus the fact that the Cardinal was more expensive to build than a 172 airframe, led Cessna to drop the Cardinal after the 1978 model year, replacing it in the line-up with a six-cylinder, 195-hp version of the 172 (R172K Hawk XP).

-- Pilawt
 
A '76 - good year.

I really wanted a Cardinal, but it seemed like it would be too easy to get stuck with a lousy one as a first-time buyer. Too many build-quality issues for my blood. Beautiful planes, though, and a great combination of features - economical engine, C/S prop, easy access to the cabin through both sides, decent load/range/speed. No wonder the NextGen Cessna resembles it - they should have brought the 177 back to the lineup in 1996.

With more experience under my belt as an owner now, I'd definitely buy one. I'd rather win an AOPA restoration though!!!
 
Since I am not qualified to answer any technical type questions, I will just go with the experience I had in one.

Windows in the Cardinal I flew/flew in do not open at all...but the cabin room and headroom/legroom compared to Skyhawk are great. I think the cabin might even be roomier than the Skylane, although I was just in a Skylane once. Cards are also easy to get in and out of, just like getting into a car, although without the strut you have to be careful of the doors if there is any wind. The Card flew a lot of Young Eagles and their parents and it was easy to get novices in and out, as well as angle inside to make sure seat belts, headsets, and other things were being used correctly.

The airplane is very pleasant to fly (even from the right seat, in which I have all of my Cardinal time) and responsive. The highest I have ever been in a small airplane has been in a Cardinal at 11500.

I wouldn't mind winning one.
 
At some point I expect Steve Will Chime in, he knows a lot about Cardinals and owned one or two. My very limited understanding is that vis is much better on the base final turn b/c the wing is set back.

Other than that I'd LOVE to have one I'd also love to win the 6 hell I'd love to have any plane.
 
Windows in the Cardinal I flew/flew in do not open at all
The large side windows on the pilot's and front passenger's doors do not open. Forward of those windows are small triangular vent windows that look like the "wind-wings" of an early '50s sedan. These hinge at the back and open outward, by turning a flimsy little crank. If the mechanism still works and the crank handle hasn't fallen off (yet), they let in a lot of air.

That was my biggest gripe about the '76 Cardinal I flew in a club years ago -- the flimsy interior materials, like the plastic instrument panel fascia and seat and door trim. But that problem wasn't unique to Cardinals, it was typical of Cessnas of that era.

vis is much better on the base final turn b/c the wing is set back.
Indeed. Here is a photo taken from the pilot's normal seated position in a 177B. Lean forward just a bit and you can see past the leading edge of the wing.

-- Pilawt
 

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Well mike if i win it i'll sell it to you, Wings in the wrong place for me.
Dave G
 
Yeah, but you've already got a nice 182RG. Just think, you could pay it off with the proceeds. :D
Already paid off, probably just go for some upgrades. :yes:
 
Well I voted 5, 4, 1, 2, 3 top to bottom. I do hope y'all pick the middle one so that when AOPA delivers it to me :)D ) it'll already have the paint job I want. I'm not all that ostentatious a person (my coworkers doze off when I am discussing weighty matters), and 3 seems to meet my dull personality better.

A Card. would meet my mission profile the best of all the aircraft extant: roomy, easy to get into, and even with ballast in the back (I anticipate a "weight/balance" issue--no comment:redface: ) it looks like it would still fly just fine. I'll just make certain to hop out and be a "gentleman chauffeur" and always open the passenger door:rolleyes: .

I bet with the AOPA pane I won't have to worry about spar carry-through and stabilator issues or, for that matter, seat rail issues...

Stay safe,

Jim
 
The large side windows on the pilot's and front passenger's doors do not open. Forward of those windows are small triangular vent windows that look like the "wind-wings" of an early '50s sedan. These hinge at the back and open outward, by turning a flimsy little crank. If the mechanism still works and the crank handle hasn't fallen off (yet), they let in a lot of air.

That was my biggest gripe about the '76 Cardinal I flew in a club years ago -- the flimsy interior materials, like the plastic instrument panel fascia and seat and door trim. But that problem wasn't unique to Cardinals, it was typical of Cessnas of that era.

-- Pilawt
Down here in Texas, one of the first things I did when we bought our CardinalRG was spend money having those cranks, gears and seals completely re-done along with some metal and framework reinforcement in the door and the door glass redone. Too dang hot not to.

Did other interior work including redoing the panel and scrapping the plastic for a metal panel, etc.

Early last year, we had the interior redone again--but this time done in leather throughout with some custom seat-fitting. Left seat fits me, right seat fits my wife.

Also did some other STC work on the plane and we'll never even come close to getting our money back on it--it goes up for sale end of this year when we start building the Lancair.

Nice airplanes and I'd been enamored with them since I saw my first one in '68. We have thoroughly enjoyed ours--it's a great XC machine. But I'd never own another one.

But maybe the Annual AOPA Colossal Waste of Members' Money Sweepstakes will help drive the market value up a little bit. . . who knows?

Regards.

-JD
 
Down here in Texas, one of the first things I did when we bought our CardinalRG was spend money having those cranks, gears and seals completely re-done along with some metal and framework reinforcement in the door and the door glass redone. Too dang hot not to.

Did other interior work including redoing the panel and scrapping the plastic for a metal panel, etc.

Early last year, we had the interior redone again--but this time done in leather throughout with some custom seat-fitting. Left seat fits me, right seat fits my wife.

Also did some other STC work on the plane and we'll never even come close to getting our money back on it--it goes up for sale end of this year when we start building the Lancair.

Nice airplanes and I'd been enamored with them since I saw my first one in '68. We have thoroughly enjoyed ours--it's a great XC machine. But I'd never own another one.

But maybe the Annual AOPA Colossal Waste of Members' Money Sweepstakes will help drive the market value up a little bit. . . who knows?

Regards.

-JD
did you order the IV-P ? if so, does it have room for the dogs ?
 
did you order the IV-P ? if so, does it have room for the dogs ?

We haven't decided yet. What we've been kicking around is ordering and building a Legacy with the IO550N 310hp Continental monster. It's a two-seater and we'd use it just for trips where we don't take the dogs.

Then, we'd build a Four Winds, same engine, and use it like a flying Suburban.

I haven't spent much time in a IV other than that trip up to Kansas City and back. The engine set-up is too complicated and maintenance intensive for me--twin turbos, twin-intercoolers, etc. Too much stuff to deal with. Plus, I'm not a real big fan of turbos.

IF. . . IF the IV can be configured interior-wise to fit two big dogs in the back in reasonable comfort with some baggage (which I seriously doubt--on the FourWinds, we may not even put in a back seat but do it C-185 style), we might consider building the PropJet (turbine version).

But again, I don't think the chances of that are high. What I like about both the Legacy and the Four Winds is that both can handle grass/turf strips handily. The IV series has gear that is too similar to Cessna's retractable system and I dont' know if I'd want to do any regular grass strip landings with that kind of gear set up.

I've spent about ten hours in the Legacy and it's like flying a little rocket. Took off from an airport outside of Austin last month, about 60 degrees F and got better than 2500 fpm and was at 8500 msl showing an honest ground speed in excess of 250 knots within seven minutes.

That kind of performance can get in your blood in a hurry.

Regards.

-JD
 
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