Final Report: MYF Falcon 900 mishap

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TCABM

Final Approach
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The captain, who was the pilot flying, did not hold any valid pilot certificates at the time of the accident because they had been revoked 2 years prior due to his falsification of logbook entries and records. Additionally, he had never held a type rating for the accident airplane and had started, but not completed, training in the accident airplane model before the accident. The first officer had accumulated about 16 hours of flight experience in the make and model of the airplane and was not authorized to operate as pilot-in-command.
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https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/Aviation/ReportMain/GenerateNewestReport/102629/pdf
 
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dtuuri said:
Bet it isn't, ;)

[ ] I am aware that this thread is rather old but I still want to make a reply.
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That’s nice. Tapatalk doesn’t provide that option to override.

Flying Keys said:
The final report is the Falcon overrun at KMYF, the old thread was the Learjet stall/spin at KSEE.
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I’ll leave the archaeology to others. Original link removed.
 
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What’s up with Falcons being flown without licensed flight crews?

Kind of makes you wonder how many corporate jets are being operated like that….
 
Kenny Phillips said:
I looked up the specs on the Falcon 900EX. With full fuel there are several tons of left-over useful load for crew, pax, and cargo. Even if each of the crew and pax weighed 600 lbs, it would be underweight. But the NTSB says it was a ton-and-a-half over.
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It was overweight for that runway length.

If they had entered the accurate weight into the FMS for the runway, they would have gotten an error message and it wouldn’t have calculated the Vspeeds
 
Fearless Tower said:
It was overweight for that runway length.

If they had entered the accurate weight into the FMS for the runway, they would have gotten an error message and it wouldn’t have calculated the Vspeeds
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That is not how it is worded:
A review of performance data indicated that the flight crew attempted to takeoff with the airplane 2,975 lbs over the maximum takeoff weight (MTOW), a center of gravity (CG) close to the most forward limit, and an incorrect stabilizer trim setting.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Kind of makes you wonder how many corporate jets are being operated like that….
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Back in my corporate days, there was a pretty well known Challenger operator whose owner would reposition the airplanes on his own - no type, just him. Lots of trash out there in the 135 ranks, but that was definitely the worst I've seen.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
That is not how it is worded:
A review of performance data indicated that the flight crew attempted to takeoff with the airplane 2,975 lbs over the maximum takeoff weight (MTOW), a center of gravity (CG) close to the most forward limit, and an incorrect stabilizer trim setting.
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Take off weight for that runway. Take off weight is determined by runway, aircraft weight, wind, temperature and some other variables.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
That is not how it is worded:
A review of performance data indicated that the flight crew attempted to takeoff with the airplane 2,975 lbs over the maximum takeoff weight (MTOW), a center of gravity (CG) close to the most forward limit, and an incorrect stabilizer trim setting.
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You are confusing MTOW FOR MGTOW

max gross takeoff weight is a structural limit and is most likely the number you are referencing.

MTOW is maximum takeoff weight right now for the flight being conducted. Max Gross is a structural limitation and is the always the absolute limit but MTOW is often a lower number because of other performance limitations such as landing weight limitations or engine out performance requirements at departure airport.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
I looked up the specs on the Falcon 900EX. With full fuel there are several tons of left-over useful load for crew, pax, and cargo. Even if each of the crew and pax weighed 600 lbs, it would be underweight. But the NTSB says it was a ton-and-a-half over.
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The Limitations section of a Part 25 AFM will read something like this:
TAKE-OFF WEIGHT
Maximum Take-off Weight is limited by the most restrictive of the following:
• 16,100 lbs.
• Maximum Take-off Weight to Achieve Take-off Climb Requirements in Section 5.
• Maximum Take-off Weight Limited by Maximum Brake Energy in Section 5.
• Maximum Take-off Weight for the runway available and ambient conditions shown on the Take-off Speeds and Field Length Tables and Correction graphs in Section 5.
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